The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 19, 2012, 02:01 PM   #1
FlySubCompact
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2012
Posts: 221
HAZMAT increase?

Mods.....I didn't know exactly where to post this, but figured this forum was the most appropriate.....move it need be.

I was having a discussion with a truck driver who is permitted for hauling explosives. I mentioned that I shoot black powder guns how rediculous it is that I we have to pay a HAZMAT fee that is more expensive than a single can of Goex. He informed me that I was about to be real unhappy.

He said that the HAZMAT fee would soon be $100. Some new Obama administration directives. Some of the new rules in place are already gouging his business hard.

Any of you heard about this?

I put stock in this man's claims because he has been is this business for years and seems very credible/level headed. Didn't see any tinfoil peeking out of the brim of his hat.
FlySubCompact is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 04:28 PM   #2
drail
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2008
Posts: 3,150
The best Government that money can buy. I believe it.
drail is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 04:41 PM   #3
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,426
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury."

And they have to pay the bill somewhere.
JimDandy is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 04:58 PM   #4
rajbcpa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 315
UHG!

So the primer shortage was both real and justified.....


I suppose the local retailers will be happy...
rajbcpa is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 05:03 PM   #5
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,426
Real yes.

Justified, maybe.

Relieved, no.

They can't sell what they don't have, and they still have to pay rent on an empty shelf. And its not just primers that are short. I suppose a lot of folks have their shorts in a bunch and are buying up stockpiles of whatever they thing they need to weather the storm of the hypothetical political cycle.
JimDandy is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 05:13 PM   #6
rajbcpa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 315
...local retailers will be happy since fewer reloaders will buy powder and primers on-line because they do not want to incur huge haz mat fees.

Two of my LGS say that they are considering eliminating inventories of reloading supplies like powder, primers, and such because volumes are low and they can't make $. This decision of fees will probably push them to not sell these items.

Fewer options for buyers means the remaining suppliers can demand much higher prices.

This will lessen the cost advantage of reloading since shipping commercial ammo does not require haz mat fees.

I just don't understand the wisdom in this decision.

Elections do have consequences. Have a nice day!
rajbcpa is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 05:33 PM   #7
Don H
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,705
Without any reference to a new regulation being promulgated, this is just a rumor, much like the rumor(s) about powders and primers being compounded with a substance that will render them inert within a specific timeframe.
Don H is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 06:54 PM   #8
wpsdlrg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2009
Posts: 461
"Some new Obama administration directives. Some of the new rules in place are already gouging his business hard. "


HOGWASH !!! "Hazmat fees" are charged by the SHIPPING COMPANY- NOT the government. The government makes NO requirement for any such fees - this is entirely a fiction generated by the shipping companies, in order to get a surcharge out of their customers. I don't say that they do not have some costs relating to hazmat paperwork and regulations - they certainly do. A reasonable charge for this is, of course, justified. But, there has been NO change in regulations to cause any need for a fee increase. NONE.

Just more hysteria - and one more stupid rumour - which amounts to nothing, except to set off the nutjobs on another rant.
wpsdlrg is offline  
Old November 19, 2012, 10:02 PM   #9
Heavy Metal 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2012
Posts: 147
I hate urban myths. A friend of my brother in law's second cousin told me he heard from a guy who heard from his ex wife's hairdresser's dog groomer that....ARGHHHHHHHH!
Heavy Metal 1 is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 04:20 AM   #10
lmccrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2007
Location: Red Rock. TX
Posts: 800
There was something about the DOT ORM-D classification going away in phases, air transport this year, and all forms next year. This is how ammo is shipped, so there will be a greater impact on loaded ammo rather than components, which are still haz-mat.
lmccrock is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 05:11 AM   #11
Sparks1957
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 4, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,470
Quote:
Just more hysteria - and one more stupid rumour
For sure... people seem determined to believe that the government is coming to take their guns away, to the point of making stuff up to provide evidence.
Sparks1957 is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 07:14 AM   #12
FlySubCompact
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2012
Posts: 221
To you posters accusing me of rumor mongering.....

First off, if you take my original post as a whole (title and body), this subject was posed as a question. I heard this, had never seen anything related to it and was curious if folks here had heard anything about it.

The fellow I got this info from is a good man from what I've known and heard of him. The "Obama" regulations that I said "were gouging him" may or may have not been related to HAZMAT directly. From our short conversation he said that new transportation regs, signed into law in the last few months, were costing him $700-800 a week. Details, I can't provide. Our conversation was short and I know almost nothing about trucking or hauling explosives. My grumbling about the current HAZMAT fee brought his mention that he heard the fee would soon jump to $100.

I don't know if the current administration will do this (or any make any other moves to inhibit 2nd Ammendment related freedoms or products), but I would not doubt it. Especially after the man has shown a renewed interest in reviving the UN Small Arms treaty and a new version of the AWB. Plus, his political career was spawned in Chicago.....not exactly the most Pro RKBA city in the the US. He also has made comments about "working under the radar" to get things done that might not fly via normal (and politically costly) legislative methods.
FlySubCompact is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 12:21 PM   #13
Don H
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,705
FlySubCompact, until someone can cite an actual law, regulation or rule, it is just a baseless rumor no matter how you feel about the current occupant of the White House.
Don H is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 02:13 PM   #14
jag2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 384
There was a similar discussion a few years ago and I've forgotten some of the details but basically the hazmat fee came about because of additional record keeping required after 9/11 and that it would expire in 2014. Seems like it was fairly well documented, not just internet BS like this seems to be. The FEE was not required by the government but the shippers instituted it to cover their extra work. However, in the same discussion some old timers said they remembered hazmat fees going back to the 80's. Maybe (just my guess) the fee did exist but was a lot less so people didn't gripe about it so much.
jag2 is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 02:21 PM   #15
FlySubCompact
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2012
Posts: 221
Don,

This good fellow may have been passing on a rumor. Seeing how there are a lot of knowlegeble folk here that buy primers/powders I figured this would be an excellent place to ask to find out.
FlySubCompact is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 02:29 PM   #16
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,087
DOT is "harmonizing" its shipping regulations to conform with international standards.


Quote:

Q. I’ve heard the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) is phasing out the Consumer Commodity (ORM-D) exceptions from the Hazardous Material Regulations (HMR; 49 CFR parts 171-180). When did this happen? When does it take effect? And does this mean that regular consumer products need shipping papers and the whole rigmarole of marks, labels, and UN specification packaging like regular hazmat?

A. Some of what you’ve heard is correct. As part of an effort to harmonize domestic regulations with international standards, the DOT is phasing out the ORM-D exceptions for consumer commodities. After December 31, 2012, you won’t be able to use the ORM-D-Air provisions, and after December 31, 2013, you won’t be able to use the ORM-D exceptions for other modes of transportation (vessel, highway, or rail).

Once the ORM-D Consumer Commodity classification goes away, any products you shipped under that description will have to be described as regular hazardous materials.

But, because consumer commodity type packages don’t contain very much hazmat, they still have a lot of options that don’t require the full weight of the HMR [76 FR 3308; January 19, 2011].
http://blog.lion.com/index.php/2011/...ppen-to-orm-d/
thallub is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 02:49 PM   #17
SHR970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2011
Posts: 546
The basis of this probably comes from page 3 of this: PHMSA

These guys have also been pushing the fee hikes in other areas since 2008; like raising the per person registration fee from $975 a year to $2575.

These costs are passed on to us the consumer via the shipping company as the HazMat fee.

Edit to add: They are a regulatory agency. They do not necessarily need a new law or congressional approval to hike their fees.
SHR970 is offline  
Old November 20, 2012, 10:20 PM   #18
Heavy Metal 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2012
Posts: 147
It is a hazmat fee, not a tax and is imposed by the shippers. The shippers have sole discretion whether or not to put this fee on us to cover their expense in meeting the regulations. Remember reloading supplies are only a tiny segment of their market. They move many more tons of hazmat goods other than our goodies.
Heavy Metal 1 is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 03:10 AM   #19
lll Otto lll
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2008
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 168
The HazMat fee will likely go up to $30 in January if past increases are any indicator.
A far bigger concern is Washington's plan to implement sales tax collection on all Internet sales. For example, a Powder Valley order of $300 would tack-on hazmat $30 + shipping $14 + tax $15 + insurance $2 = $61
lll Otto lll is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 05:14 AM   #20
twins
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2010
Posts: 393
As for the fee increase, oh well if true. Time for a new hobby if it goes to $100.

Last edited by Tom Servo; November 21, 2012 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Removed reference to deleted material
twins is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 07:18 AM   #21
Magnum Mike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2007
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 334
Is the sky falling again?
Magnum Mike is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 11:28 AM   #22
jag2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 384
I haven't heard of any federal sales tax (might well could have missed it) because those are always state based, not federal. The states are definitely doing everything they can to collect it. Texas is forcing Amazon to collect tax but it is because they have a warehouse here. The courts have been ruling that any physical presence in a state means they must collect it. As for Powder Valley, they already collect a hazmat fee but they are only in one state so no sales tax other than their home state. With the climate in Washington today, I don't see how they could pass a federal sales tax, but that is a whole different discussion.
jag2 is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 02:05 PM   #23
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,302
Quote:
It is a hazmat fee, not a tax and is imposed by the shippers.
This is true. In the case of retailers, the fee is imposed by distributors. Some charge ludicrous HAZMAT fees, while a couple don't charge it at all if you buy over certain minimums.

I have heard nothing about government-mandated increases.
__________________
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
Tom Servo is offline  
Old November 21, 2012, 05:32 PM   #24
Xfire68
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 31, 2010
Location: Communist State of IL.
Posts: 1,423
If anyone has CONCRETE info on this being truthful please post a link.

I don't want to have to build a bunker and fill it with powder to avoid Hazmat charges that may not be real.

I am buying more than normal but, I plan on shooting more the next six months.
__________________
NRA Life Member, SAF Member

www.aac300blackoutbrass.com A Veteran owned Business.
Xfire68 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11788 seconds with 7 queries