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Old November 26, 2012, 10:58 AM   #76
1911Tuner
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Okay, next question, on my Series 80 gun, thee woul no way then to jus replace the actual trigger without affecting travel, lenght of pull,
etc?
I wouldn't say that there's no way. There's a good chance that nothing would change...or at least not enough to make a difference in the function of the Series 80 system. Travel and length of pull? I seriously doubt if there would be enough difference for you to be able to detect it unless you use the overtravel screw...and that would only have an effect on the travel after the break.

However...The overtravel screw can affect proper Series 80 function. If you use it, be sure and check the height that the plunger lever reaches as outlined.

Or...pretravel tabs available on some aftermarket triggers would affect the take-up. Careful with that, too or you can get hammer followdown to half-cock.
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Old November 26, 2012, 02:34 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911Tuner
Just curious, but what is it about the polymer trigger you dislike so much?
A few things, one of which being I find it too "skinny" as in my finger engulfs it when I grip the gun. A friend has a Kimber SIS that has what appars and feels to be a substantially larger trigger on it that I much prefer.

Secondly, I have found that the trigger, on my gun, atleast, seems to have an inordinate amount of "play" which I don't like.

And to top it all off, I think it is just down right ugly, but if there were a way to correct the first two, I could deal with that.
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Old November 26, 2012, 04:42 PM   #78
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A few things, one of which being I find it too "skinny" as in my finger engulfs it when I grip the gun.
That's more because of the convex shape of the face than anything. Unless the pistol in question is a Colt Gold Cup, the triggers are all pretty much the same thickness, +/- whatever the allowable tolerance is.

They are pretty sloppy vertically, though...and that's an issue for some people. It does allow for quite a bit of fouling in the shoe portion of the channel without causing problems, though.

They're also light/low-mass and less likely to bring on hammer follow problems than even the aluminum triggers.

Quote:
And to top it all off, I think it is just down right ugly, but if there were a way to correct the first two, I could deal with that.
The long nylon triggers are intended to look and function pretty much like the original, pre-A1 milled triggers...which they do...at least from a respectable distance. They look cheap, but they're actually pretty decent triggers as far as durability goes.
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Old November 26, 2012, 07:51 PM   #79
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We drilled and tapped a few of the plastic triggers for overtravel stops, and they worked fine. That's really not a bad part.
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Old November 26, 2012, 08:46 PM   #80
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"And to top it all off, I think it is just down right ugly,"
Plastic triggers,plastic main spring housings,plastic frames,what will they think up next?
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Old November 26, 2012, 11:13 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by polyphemus
Plastic triggers,plastic main spring housings,plastic frames,what will they think up next?
Plastic guns, of course.

(Rock River Arms)
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:17 AM   #82
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This makes me want to replace my 70 series with the 80 series mechanism.


-___-

How much would that run me?
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:44 AM   #83
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This makes me want to replace my 70 series with the 80 series mechanism.
There is no Series 70 mechanism in the fire control group. Everything prior to Series 80 was the original design in that area...from 1910 until the Series 80 pistols were introduced in 1983.

"Series 70" means something specific that has nothing to do with safety. It's become a catch-phrase. A quick way of letting the buyer know that the pistol doesn't contain any lawyer parts.
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:52 AM   #84
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Can you explain to me?


Cause the reason why I'm wanting those so called "lawyer parts" is to make sure my gun is the safest as it can be with modern time.

Can I make that happen with my 70 Series?
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Old November 27, 2012, 11:59 AM   #85
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So what is it about my Series 80 that needs repaired if it batters the plunger? What is the problem, the lever needs bent up some?
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Old November 27, 2012, 12:44 PM   #86
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"So what is it about my Series 80 that needs repaired if it batters the plunger? What is the problem, the lever needs bent up some?"
post#34 the Tuner clearly explains solutions to the issue.
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Old November 27, 2012, 01:06 PM   #87
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Cause the reason why I'm wanting those so called "lawyer parts" is to make sure my gun is the safest as it can be with modern time.
The Series 80 system makes the pistol drop-safe and it makes people who are nervous with Condition One carry less nervous, and not much else.

Quote:
Can I make that happen with my 70 Series?
It will require machine work on both the slide and frame, as well as a few parts changes. Colt can do it...if they will...for a price. The cheapest, simplest way is to just buy a Series 80 pistol.
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Old November 27, 2012, 01:09 PM   #88
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Oh..that's it? Alright then I'm alright. Thanks brother. needed the clarification. Plus all that work sounds a little aggravating. It's getting worked on now as we speak with other stuff.

How does it look internally? If I do a Google search of the difference will it come up clear as day?
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Old November 27, 2012, 01:52 PM   #89
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Pardon me for commenting on something from the first one or two pages but I've never heard of the trigger being referred to as a safety. I'm also surprised that no one has mentioned the grip safety, which was apparently a serious issue for some people for a while. It was fashionable to pin it down and deactivate it, presumably because the grip safety was unsafe.

I keep wondering how a Makarov pistol manages to get by with not only not only no firing pin safety but no firing pin spring either.

If nothing else, I think the firing pin safety on the series 80 (mine was a 1991A1) made it harder to disassemble. The natural solution was to never disassemble the firing pin. It gave me no trouble and I couldn't tell the difference in it and any other Colt or Springfield Armory .45 auto I ever owned, trigger-wise. However, under the jelly-side-down theory of guns dropping, I'm almost certain they will always land on the hammer, not the muzzle, and always from at least six feet high.
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Old November 27, 2012, 02:05 PM   #90
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Quote:
I'm almost certain they will always land on the hammer, not the muzzle, and always from at least six feet high.
I wish I could rely on that 100%

I'm really ok with my 70 series..It's not my only gun. But I like my guns up to a certain spec. If they don't match my personal spec I get rid of them.

However, this is one I may just skip out on caring about my silly "spec".


Also, good point on the Makarov. A lot of Americans like that thing for some reason.
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Old November 27, 2012, 02:07 PM   #91
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How does it look internally? If I do a Google search of the difference will it come up clear as day?
Probably. There are several diagrams of the Series 80 internals around, but I don't have any links.

The additional changes made to the standard parts are as follows:

Firing pin. Extractor. Grip safety. Firing pin stop. The firing pin springs were shorter and softer in the Series 80 pistols, but the reason for it is uncertain.
I have theories, but no hard proof. All these parts are interchangeable with Series 70 and pre-Series 70 pistols, but not vice-versa. The firing pin springs are fully interchangeable, as are all other parts.

The Series 80 hammer came with a flat quarter-cock shelf instead of the original captive half-cock notch. Simpler and cheaper than machining the captive half-cock, and almost nobody was using the half-cock as a safe carry mode any more. Interchangeable.

Most aftermarket firing pins are the Series 80 type. Ed Brown is the notable exception, and both types are offered.

Series 80 slides will work on pre-Series 80 frames if the plunger and spring is removed, and Series 80 frames will work with pre-80 slides if the frame blank is substituted for the frame levers. It also goes without saying that if the Series 80 pistol is "De-Lawyered" that all standard pre-80 parts can be used.

Additionally, about the time that Series 80s were introduced came a change in the hammer strut design. Stronger and more durable than the old struts, but less useful as a punch and slave pin. Also interchangeable.
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Old November 27, 2012, 02:29 PM   #92
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Thank you for the clarification 1911Tuner. Appreciate the time and knowledge.
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Old November 27, 2012, 02:33 PM   #93
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I'm also surprised that no one has mentioned the grip safety, which was apparently a serious issue for some people for a while.
As far as that goes, the grip safety is present on both, so it doesn't really factor into the 70/80 debate.

Quote:
However, under the jelly-side-down theory of guns dropping, I'm almost certain they will always land on the hammer, not the muzzle, and always from at least six feet high.
And that's precisely why the grip safety is there...as an add-on in a few 1905s...incorporated into the design on the 1907s...and it reappeared on the 1909, 1910, and 1911s. It was and is a drop safety.
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:43 PM   #94
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How does it look internally? These are the "extra" parts:



The upper plunger and spring are in the slide. The two levers are in the frame. The right side of the frame has to be milled out (beside the hammer and sear) to make room for the levers. In the slide, the firing pin has to have a "waist" in the rear section to interface with the plunger.
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:43 PM   #95
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I keep wondering how a Makarov pistol manages to get by with not only not only no firing pin safety but no firing pin spring either.
Don’t have one, but the Russians managed slamfires through primer insensitivity. That is one reason why people complain all the time about misfires with Russian ammunition and primers. It takes a stout ignition system to fire them off and many Western designs have wussy ignition systems and wussy American primers are often too sensitive to use in Russian military weapons.

I am quite certain the occasional Soviet was shot when he chambered a round with a sensitive primer in a Makarov.

The Soviets had a different attitude towards safety.
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:47 PM   #96
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I was serious about that, you understand. I once managed to knock my Browning Hi-Power off a shelf that was actually closer to seven feet high. It landed on the hammer. Nothing broken but it might have been bent a little. I seem to remember some pistol having a hammer that was made so that it would be obvious if it were dropped on the hammer, only I don't remember which one.
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Old November 27, 2012, 09:26 PM   #97
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post#94 graphic

To get a better perspective both trigger bar(lower)and plunger lever(upper)
should be turned over 180,this is how you would assemble them in the
frame.Also the extractor is modified with a half moon recess and a small step
to prevent the plunger from being ejected.Chief Colt engineer Rube Goldberg
designed it in a moment of inspiration.
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