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Old October 10, 2012, 09:18 AM   #1
JohnnieBush
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Is Your Glock 27 Gen 4 - Functioning Perfectly - Please Report

I would like to hear from some Glock 27 Gen 4 owners that have a perfectly functioning handgun where the recoil spring is NOT in any way damaging or gouging the inside of the polymer frame.

I own one that is really making a real mess out of the inside of my pistol after a very few rounds, and there are Glock owners and representatives who tell me that this is NORMAL!

So, to capsulize, I would like to hear from some people who don't have the gouging problem from their recoil spring!

Here is the link to my Damage Photos:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/feh3h8xusxond28/R12IwAMjHK

Last edited by JohnnieBush; October 12, 2012 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Added Photo Link
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Old October 10, 2012, 09:49 AM   #2
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Nope. Send it in. That is not normal. Please post pics if possible. Unless you are really overreacting, you need to send it in because that cannot be good.
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Old October 10, 2012, 03:31 PM   #3
JohnnieBush
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Here's my REAL problem!

I just purchased a new Glock G27 (Gen4) on Sunday, October 7th. (My first Glock ever) Even when cycling the action by hand and disassembling the pistol, the spring was becoming jammed between the barrel and the frame and was almost impossible to disassemble. When I was able to disassemble the pistol, I was scratching the heck out of the interior of the frame. This problem made me positively sick on a brand new gun!

I wrote to Glock describing the problem, and they replied!

"It is normal for the recoil spring to drop out of the half circle notch. It should be placed in that notch prior to reassembly."

Hmmmm . . . doesn't seem normal to me, but then again they are the experts on Glocks!

I went out yesterday and put 50 rounds through the pistol to make sure that everything was normal when firing it. When I got home and was able to disassemble the pistol, my brand new gun didn't look pretty. The polycarbonate frame was badly scarred and I am sure that the damage and self-destruction will only continue if I keep firing the gun. I simply don't like to see a brand new gun being destroyed right before my very eyes.

I own a lot of handguns, and this NEW Glock 27 Gen 4, which is three days old, is more damaged and scratched than any other gun that I own! And, some of them are 50 years old.

I took a few pictures as best I could and will take any suggestions on how to remedy the situation!

----------------------------------

I wanted to provide this forum with an update on my progress on my problem. I shipped my Glock G27 off to the factory this afternoon via FedEx Overnight at a cost of $64.47 with Insurance. I paid $549.99 for the gun plus $32.99 Sales Tax plus $2.00 for the Background Check plus a $3.00 Gun Tax. With the return shipping, my total cost is now up to $652.45 for my first foray into the Glock Community. That’s a lot to pay for a gun that cost less than $100 to manufacturer. Yeah, I know it’s hard to believe. Everyone should start by reading the book Glock: The Rise of America’s Gun! I think that most people that are reading this forum would really enjoy it.


It's hard for me to believe that ANY manufacturer, even Glock, or their professional representative would SUGGEST that it’s NORMAL for a recoil spring to jump out it’s assigned position and gouge (metal on plastic) the polycarbonate frame of a gun every time it’s fired or cycled by hand! John Browning would be turning over in his grave to hear such a absurd story or his ghost would be wailing in extreme pain!

I'll keep people posted of the outcome to my G27 problem.
This is the link to photos of the my Glock damages:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/feh3h8xusxond28/R12IwAMjHK


--------------------------------------
I really appreciate the input coming in, - I absolutely love the gun and it's so manageable to shoot. I would hate to NOT be able to add this little toy to my tool belt! I'm not a steel plate guy, but find its accuracy very very good for such a short barrel. Much more fun to carry than my 1911.

Last edited by JohnnieBush; October 12, 2012 at 06:47 AM. Reason: Added Photo Link
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Old October 11, 2012, 06:43 AM   #4
iblong
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Have over a 1000 rnds through mine no scatches.
Send it back or see a smith.
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Old October 11, 2012, 12:49 PM   #5
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I have lots of 40, 9mm and 357 through mine and no scratches.
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Old October 11, 2012, 01:01 PM   #6
plouffedaddy
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Quote:
I would like to hear from some Glock 27 Gen 4 owners that have a perfectly functioning handgun where the recoil spring is NOT in any way damaging or gouging the inside of the polymer frame.
My USA Made Gen4 G27 Review

Mine's been flawless with no gouging. I know Glock updated the Gen4 G27 spring number since it's been released due to it getting hung up on some of the earlier ones. Just something to be aware of.

The only guns I've seen with this issue have been people that use aftermarket barrels; it's (the gouging) not normal if running it stock. It is normal for the spring to come off the barrel during reassembly though.
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Old October 12, 2012, 10:20 AM   #7
Nanuk
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I am running 2 different aftermarket barrels with no problems.
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Old October 12, 2012, 04:54 PM   #8
plouffedaddy
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Quote:
I am running 2 different aftermarket barrels with no problems.
I run aftermarket barrels without issue either; but when I see frame issues it's almost always an aftermarket barrel. Doesn't happen with all but it does with some; that's all I was pointing out...
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Old October 13, 2012, 08:45 PM   #9
Nanuk
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I guess it could be slight variations in frame dimensions?
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Old October 13, 2012, 10:33 PM   #10
plouffedaddy
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Certainly possible. I doubt it though. Something's out of spec with the OPs gun if that's happening from running it stock...
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Old October 14, 2012, 08:04 AM   #11
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I agree, call first then send it back. One note: as you disassemble the gun, the recoil spring may slip off that lip on the barrel extension...though I doubt it's possible to reassemble the gun without it being firmly seated there. Glock should make good on this for you. Have you called them as yet? Rod
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:12 AM   #12
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no issues here

Ive go a gen 4 27 and so far it is flawless. Look forward to seeing what the problem is. Looks like either a spring problem or maybe slightly out of spec frame. I guess anything can have an occasional issue. While the Glocks are obviously cheap to build they seem to have done something better than other poly mfgs. I shoot with guys who have M&P's, XDs, and Taurus and none of them are as forgiving or reliable as the Glock. My old S&W 3913 and my Colt series 80 officers ACP both beautiful and more expensive to build but dont shoot any better. I stopped carrying the 1911s after 3 different ones would not reliably feed hollow points 100%. the 3913 is super reliable and the best IWB carry gun I ever had.
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Old October 15, 2012, 08:31 AM   #13
JohnnieBush
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Update and thanks after a Week!

Firstly, I’d really like to thank the people who have taken the time to offer their personal comments on their experience with the Glock 27, Gen 4. I now feel that there is hope for keeping the little pistol and enjoying it! I will post the outcome of my experience with the Glock factory with this problem. I won’t dignify it by referring to it as an issue, - it’s a real problem.

This morning I decided to clean my Colt 45 ACP. What a labor or love and something that I really enjoy doing. Unsurprisingly, I found the recoil spring right in its normal position in the gun. (Only joking, please don’t get excited.) Just for fun, I decided to take my little Ruger .380 LCP apart and clean it. The little polymer frame is surviving unscathed and the recoil spring was found resting in place comfortably against the recoil lug on the barrel. I know that they are entirely different designs from the pistols from Glock, but the recoil spring and the method of retention is much more similar than dissimilar.

I really hope that my problem is resolved and that I get to keep Gaston’s little Baby G27. As I said, it’s pretty accurate for such a short barrel. I’m 70 years old and a very very average shooter. I don’t shoot steel plates and have never shot ISPC or anything like that, but I have shot a LOT. When growing up, it was NORMAL for me to shoot a 1,000 rounds of standard velocity .22 Long Rifle ammo a week for many years of my life.


I’ve attached my first two targets (Actually Magazines) from my new malfunctioning Glock 27 from a week ago. It’s not up to what I would like to show my friends, but simply an honest example of a new gun in the hands of a seventy-year old guy.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1cepbpee7iuybqh/aPANQxGREN


When I hear back from Glock manufacturing, I will post more photos of the gun, frame, and recoil spring assembly. Thanks!
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Old October 15, 2012, 09:05 AM   #14
MonsterB
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When you disassemble any Glock, the recoil spring lifts a bit from the notch on the barrel. It doesntmean it was that way when it was assembled. You have to make sure its seated proprly when reassembling, otherwise you risk some damage. I have heard of this problem before, and I believe it is almost always atributed to not seating the recoil spring properly before putting the slide back on. I have always been carefull with my four Glocks, and after 30k rounds I haven't had a scratch yet with any of them.
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Old October 15, 2012, 09:50 AM   #15
JohnnieBush
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More info on my Compound Spring

First of all, I was really careful with regard to spring placement before firing the pistol. Before shooting the pistol, I hand cycled the action several times and in the photos attached, you can see that the recoil spring has jumped entirely out of the normal seated position and is barely hanging on the barrel lug itself.

After I noticed this happening, I carefully inspected the compound spring and noticed that the washer on the end of the spring that would seat against the barrel lug had slightly rolled edges. This was an indication to me that the end retaining washer on the spring was a STAMPED part and was not a machined part like I see on many of the replacement springs that are for sale on the web. I'm not making any judgement at this time of the personal merits of the washer, but merely laying another piece of the puzzle on the table for consideration.

After observing this rolled edge and before ever shooting the pistol, I tried actually rotating the spring through it's horizontal axis to find the area of the washer, that under a magnifying glass, providing me with the GREATEST bearing surface area. When I was able to identify this area, I marked the washer on the spring so as to be always be able to reposition it in the horizontal axis with the most contact (Surface Bearing Area) against the C cut in the barrel retaining lug.

I then hand cycled the gun several times trying to obtain the best possible position for the spring with the rolled edge retaining washer. I also noticed that the spring washer was NOT resting entirely parallel to, or in 100% contact with to the broached C shaped cut out the retaining lug. I did notice that the spring was less likely to jump completely out of it normal position when located in it's best location! But, it ALWAYS moved up significantly out of the C area on the barrel lug after hand cycling the action a half dozen times quickly.

After hand cycling the action numerous time while rotating the recoil spring to different positions, I observed that my BEST location was my marked area of maximum bearing and that this area provided me with the best spring retention! This geometry was significantly better that the results that I had when rotating the spring 180 degrees and hand cycling the action.

I can assure you the spring was carefully seated in its proper position before ever firing the pistol a single time!

Last edited by JohnnieBush; October 15, 2012 at 04:14 PM.
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Old October 15, 2012, 10:00 AM   #16
tmorone
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I've got a little over 1k through a Gen 4 G19 and there are no scratches like you described.

Same as others have said, I'd have reacted as you did and sent it to Glock to make right. Ugly as they are, mine all seem to run just fine.
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Old October 15, 2012, 10:33 AM   #17
MonsterB
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Johnnie, I noticed you posted a pic of the slide with the barrel in it, which you said was after cycling the gun a few times, and before you shot it. Every time you take the slide off, you must reseat the guiderod before reinstalling it. Even if you don't shoot it. Maybe I'm missing your point, but I'm just trying to help. The damage you are showing in the pics looks exactly like what happens if you don't seat the guiderod correctly before every install. I would have someone who knows glocks well look at it, hopefully an armorer, as it needs to be seen in person to figure out. Good luck.
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Old October 15, 2012, 10:50 AM   #18
JohnnieBush
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In Gaston's hands now!

The Guide Rod was always placed properly in the C before reassembling the gun. A few quick hand cycles and it would pop out again. That's the picture that I've posted before ever firing the gun and doing the gouging damage. My first indication of a problem was when I couldn't take the gun apart because the guide rod assembly was jammed against the frame.

Please remember, a week ago, I knew next to NOTHING about Glocks expect that cops and a few of my friends had them. Shocking, but that was it!

Actually, my problem really started when a friend of mine gave the book, "Glock, America's Gun" to read and I then decided that I needed one! (GREAT BOOK)

The gun is in at the Glock facility at this time.

Last edited by JohnnieBush; October 15, 2012 at 04:11 PM.
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Old October 15, 2012, 11:40 AM   #19
MonsterB
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Does it pop out while still in the gun, fully assembled? That would obviously indicate a problem, one I haven't heard of. If that's the case I would be sending it back to Glock for sure. I hope you get it straightened out, Glocks are excellent guns and I would like to hear what the end result is.
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Old October 15, 2012, 11:56 AM   #20
JohnnieBush
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Pops out while still in the Gun?

Yes it does. One thing that I really regret is NOT disassembling the gun to inspect it while at the range shooting. Dah!!! I had too many other guns with me that day!

Anyway, when I came home and disassembled the Glock to inspect the frame, the spring was well out of it normal seated position, but not quite as far as shown in my picture. Also, the spring had rotated about 35 or 40 degrees clockwise from the (while looking at the gun from the muzzle end) position that I had placed it prior to shooting.

Last edited by JohnnieBush; October 15, 2012 at 01:47 PM.
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Old October 15, 2012, 03:46 PM   #21
Viper99
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Sorry to read about your problem. Kind of glad that I have the G3 version that has been flawless for over 4k rounds and still looks almost new.
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:09 AM   #22
Taptap
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reseat the recoil spring after removing the slide!
it can be a real pain if you dont. The slide can get stuck on the frame sometimes if you don't.
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Old October 16, 2012, 09:55 PM   #23
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My Gen3 G27 does not have the polymer gouging as shown in your pictures. It has the crescent-shaped area of missing polymer that I would assume is a molding void, but it does not have any of the other gouging/scraping marks shown in your pictures. My G27 has the original factory RSA and I've put 100 rounds through a spare RSA, both are factory with the solid black inner metal sleeve that holds the larger outer spring, they are not the newer version that has the silver sleeve with 0-8 or 0-8-1 on the metal base of the guide rod.

It's possible that the silver metal disc on the guide rod that fits into the crescent-shaped notch on the barrel lug is sharp on the edge and that's what's causing the gouging/scraping to your frame. If it were happening with my gun I would take a 1000 grit ceramic knife sharpening rod to the base of the guide rod to smooth and round off any sharp edges, then see if the gouging/scraping continues.

You might even try an aftermarket RSA. Enough people have had problems with the new 0-8 and 0-8-1 RSA's that when I use up both of my early factory RSA's I'm going to get an aftermarket replacement. I haven't heard a bad review of any aftermarket RSA for a G27 but I'll likely go with one from Wolff Gunsprings or a stainless one from LoneWolf or Glockstore.com.
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Old October 18, 2012, 12:18 PM   #24
Ben
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I could be wrong, but i think Picture 10 of 11 shows the guide-rod/recoil spring not seated all the way against the barrel. Its not inside the half sphere where it SHOULD be resting. That protrusion would probably cause scraping..
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Last edited by Ben; October 18, 2012 at 12:36 PM.
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Old October 18, 2012, 12:38 PM   #25
JohnnieBush
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Pretty Good Call, Ben!

I could be wrong, but I think Picture 10 of 11 shows the guide-rod/recoil spring not seated all the way against the barrel.
Ben


Update:

I looked at the order in which my photos are displayed in Dropbox. The Photo that your are looking at (#10) is a photo that I took of the RSA (Retun Spring Assembly) AFTER HAND CYCLING the action a half dozen times and then carefully removing the slide to examine the spring's resting position. I took this photo to document the problem and to show how the spring pops completely out of the retained position when the action is cycled.

I have further written the explanation on the photo of the spring itself and have ADDED CAPTIONS to several other photos.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/feh3h8xusxond28/R12IwAMjHK



Thanks
JohnneBush

Last edited by JohnnieBush; October 19, 2012 at 08:21 AM.
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