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Old September 30, 2012, 01:26 PM   #1
XtremeRevolution
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Need advice on a .22 for target practice

I've been looking around, and I decided I need a .22 as well as a larger caliber for home defense. I already narrowed down the larger caliber between the Beretta 92 and the CZ 75. I now need to find a .22 to make range practice cheaper.

So far, I've heard glowing reviews of the Ruger MarkIII. I do like the look of the 1911 .22 variants, but don't know how accurate they would be. I'm looking to spend under $400 for one, preferably brand new.

I would like it to be a full metal; no poly frames. I would also like something that isn't very picky on the type of ammo I throw into it. It also needs to be able to be disassembled fairly easily.

Thanks!

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Old September 30, 2012, 01:29 PM   #2
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The .22 conversion kit for the CZ 75 is the way to go, trust me.
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Old September 30, 2012, 01:31 PM   #3
XtremeRevolution
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Originally Posted by Sparks1957 View Post
The .22 conversion kit for the CZ 75 is the way to go, trust me.
From what I am seeing, I can buy an entirely separate handgun for the price of just the conversion. What's the advantage?

Also, does the conversion kit also work on the CZ 75 SP-01?

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Old September 30, 2012, 01:36 PM   #4
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Includes 2 10 rd magazines that fit flush with grips of the full size CZ 75 and SP-01 models. The Kadet conversion kit will work on the CZ 75 compact models including the P-01, P-06, PCR, and RAMI, but note that the full size magazines will extend below the bottom of the compact grips of these models. The Kadet conversion will not work on the 97, 75 TS, or P-07 Duty models
The above is from the CZ site.

The advantage is that you get a reliable .22 pistol with the same ergonomics and trigger as your centerfire pistol, which is a lot if you're sharpening your shooting skills for defense purposes.

The price is not that high (~350ish) for the quality, but it's your decision. I find a lot of .22 semiautos to be less than reliable or else they are a lot different than your CFs if your goal is training
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Old September 30, 2012, 01:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Sparks1957 View Post
The above is from the CZ site.

The advantage is that you get a reliable .22 pistol with the same ergonomics and trigger as your centerfire pistol, which is a lot if you're sharpening your shooting skills for defense purposes.
That's a very good point. I think I will go this route if I prefer the cz 75 over the beretta 92.

I wonder why the mags are so small. The 9mm mags hold 18 rounds. Compared to 10 rounds for a .22? Strange...

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Old September 30, 2012, 01:40 PM   #6
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You can probably tell that I'm a CZ fan...

You won't find .22 mags with more than 10 rounds... why? Because it is a rimmed cartridge, and doesn't stack well. You need a banana-shaped mag if'n you want more rounds.
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Old September 30, 2012, 02:21 PM   #7
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I have a 9MM 75B, and PCR, and the Kadet Kit .22LR conversion works great on both of them. Right now it pratically lives on my 75B. I also have a bunch of Ruger MK II's, and that is what else I would recommend, but if you get a 75B, no matter what get the Kadet Kit.
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Old September 30, 2012, 02:42 PM   #8
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The .22lr conversion kit is a good option.

For a seperate handgun, I'm partial to Rugers. However, easy to disassemble the Mark III is not. Maybe a used Mark II?

I don't know how easy the Browning BuckMark is to disassemble or the S&W Model 21.

I do know my Ruger Mark II .22/.45 [plastic framed, but the straight Mark II has the same reliability/accuracy] doesn't care which brand of ammo I send down the pipe: It likes them all.

Ciener does make a conversion kit for the Beretta 92/96 also. Ciener is not the most user friendly companies out there. I have a conversion kit for my Hi Power and it works fine. others have had problems. Ciener is almost impossible to get hold of, except through registered mail. Not my favorite company, but no one else is making a reliable/accurate BHP conversion kit, so I was stuck.

They DO offer them for Berretta. His design was the basis for the Kimber 1911 conversion kit also, just FYI. They have since changed their design, but I can't see a significant difference from pictures.
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Old September 30, 2012, 03:28 PM   #9
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...fraud-charges/

Just curious, has JAC been acquitted of those charges?

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Old September 30, 2012, 05:12 PM   #10
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resell value.

You can easily resell a hand gun. You may have more trouble reselling an add on to a type of hand gun.

Even in gun crazy Utah CZ isn't found in many stores...
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Old September 30, 2012, 07:43 PM   #11
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To be truthful, I hadn't heard the CZ name brand prior to a week ago. However, I did visit a couple of gun shops in the area, and each only had one, and it was used. They mentioned that they have a hard time keeping them in stock, as they sell out very quickly. They seem to be quite popular around here.
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Old September 30, 2012, 09:28 PM   #12
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I would definitely steer you towards a Ruger MKI or MKII. The reason I say a MKI or MKII vs. MKIII is the Loaded Chamber Indicator (LCI), from what I understand the LCI makes disassembly a little more difficult. I noted that you said ease of disassembly is a must, some here might say a Ruger is not easy to take down and put back together. I will argue that point, all that is required is a paper clip. Granted, the first time is a challenge, after that it's very easy. A Ruger will last you several lifetimes and will shoot any ammo you want to put thru it. I hope that helps. Good Luck.
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Old October 1, 2012, 08:01 AM   #13
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If you want to become proficient with the center fire caliber, and practice for its use, then an understudy with the same grip and trigger makes a lot of sense. Too, if you plan to teach your wife or GF how to shoot, a .22 lr is a good caliber for all the obvious reasons.

I've used .22 lr understudies for the .45 Automatic for 30+ years with good success...besides the uniformity of grip, controls and trigger, the .22 allows use of a handgun when noise constraints may preclude the bigger caliber.

For those who, pooh pooh the soft recoil of the little .22, remember that skill with a handgun is predicated on a uniform grip, laser focus on the front sight for sight alignment, and a good uniform, shot to shot trigger release. All of these can be learned on a .22, at a fraction of the cost, and usually with superb accuracy that builds confidence.

Here are a cpl pics of my Ruger SR1911 with a Marvel .22 lr slide mounted...and the proof of the pudding! That's a 10 yd group, shot from a Weaver Stance...and the first mag full after installation. The 2nd shows what the gun is capable of with the full house .45 ACP slide...BTW, these were some of the first magazines fired with the then new SR1911.

Best Regards, Rod

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Old October 1, 2012, 08:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
You won't find .22 mags with more than 10 rounds... why? Because it is a rimmed cartridge, and doesn't stack well. You need a banana-shaped mag if'n you want more rounds.

I have some 12 round mags for my S&W 422, they are flush with the bottom of the grip.
Mags with larger capacity would have to protrude from the bottom of the pistol.

If you don't mind a used pistol the S&W 422 or 2206 would be an excellent choice for an accurate 22 pistol, I've owned both.

As for the 22 conversion kits, I'm not that impressed with them.
I would much rather have to seperate guns.

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Old October 1, 2012, 08:51 AM   #15
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OK, but it is unusual to see mag capacity > 10
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Old October 1, 2012, 09:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
As for the 22 conversion kits, I'm not that impressed with them.
I would much rather have to seperate guns.
Have you ever shot a CZ with the Kadet Kit installed? CZ also make the Kadet as a dedicated .22 pistol, but most buy a 9MM CZ, and then add the Kadet Kit. Mine is just about as accurate as my Ruger MKII Target model. It is also very reliable with most bulk ammo.
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Old October 1, 2012, 11:30 AM   #17
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There are many ways to go but this is my favorite,,,

I am a huge fan of matching rimfire-centerfire guns,,,
So it was a no-brainer when I wanted a 22-9mm pair of pistols.

I decided not to mess with an adapter,,,
I went this route.



CZ-75B in 9mm,,,
CZ-75B Kadet in .22 LR,,,
Fantastic pistols that run any ammo.

Yesterday morning I took a young man shooting,,,
We ran 100 rounds of Tula steel case through the 9mm,,,
And close to 400 rounds of Federal Bulk Pack through the Kadet.

Not one stoppage of any kind.

'Nuff said?

Aarond

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Old October 1, 2012, 12:25 PM   #18
XtremeRevolution
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I would love to have a CZ-75 Kadet as well as the SP-01, but the price tag on the CZ-75 is much too high. I think the conversion will have to do if I like the CZ when it comes time to buy.

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Old October 1, 2012, 01:13 PM   #19
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While I'm not trying to make it sound like swapping uppers for a conversion kit is some major undertaking (it most certainly is not), there is little doubt in my mind that on many ranges, in many range sessions, it's clearly going to be a pain in the tuckus that will slow down your range day.

If you are a veteran shooter with a backyard range and a huge table and great weather and no set schedule, swapping uppers is a 2-minute job that is stress free, easy and even enjoyable.

If you are a newish shooter, on a publicly accessed indoor range, where you are paying by the hour for your little slot, may or may not have a sizable table or ledge to have your gun parts sitting on, may or may not have decent light above or around you, may or may not have guys on either side of you setting off large handguns and raining brass down on top of you... swapping out a conversion kit is absolutely going to be an annoyance at the least and a problematic undertaking at the worst.

A quality conversion kit can be a joy but I think if you polled 100 shooters who purchased high-quality conversion kits and have had them for a decent length of time, you'll likely find that more than 90 of those guys end up arranging a "dedicated" lower for their upper conversion. It's just plain easier to grab a second handgun to do a different kind of shooting than it is to swap out parts.

A conversion kit will certainly give top shot at the SAME feel as your center fire pistol, but the skills you develop shooting some other (entirely different) semi-auto rimfire pistol will absolutely, 100% transfer over if your goal is to make yourself a better shooter.

Unless you never plan to buy a different center fire handgun, you'll be adapting and trying other platforms anyway. There aren't many shooters who pick one handgun and never buy another.
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Old October 1, 2012, 03:02 PM   #20
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there is little doubt in my mind that on many ranges, in many range sessions, it's clearly going to be a pain in the tuckus that will slow down your range day.
It might be, but switching an upper is so darn easy it's hard for me to imagine having a hard time even with a million distractions. I suppose if I could hear the footsteps of killers walking upstairs to shoot me, changing the upper might get nerve wracking, but range noises have never done that to me. And I'm the type of tenderfoot shooter that flinches when the first shots go down range.

The only problem I have ever had is that the range masters at my range want to watch to ensure that I am not doing something that will endanger those around me. Of course, I normally only switch once between calibers. My SD handgun brush up involves shooting 22lr, two handed, left and right handed (altogether about 180 rounds), both from the trigger at half cock and full cock. Once I go through all that, I switch the uppers and then put around 30 rounds of 9mm downrange, and then I quit.
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Old October 1, 2012, 03:10 PM   #21
XtremeRevolution
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Well, all I need to do now is wait for my FOID card to try out a cz-75 and see how I like it compared to the beretta 92. That will determine if I can use a conversion. I'm hoping I like the feel of the cz-75 over the beretta.

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Old October 1, 2012, 03:26 PM   #22
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The CZ-75 is superior to the Beretta in ergos, and accuracy, although the Beretta is no slouch. I compared both platforms about 12 or 13 years ago, and chose the CZ, and never looked back.

The best place to find a CZ to buy is on the net if you can't find one locally, and have it transferred by a dealer. You can also order the Kadet Kit, and have it shipped to your home, no FFL needed for the conversion unit.
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Old October 1, 2012, 03:37 PM   #23
XtremeRevolution
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Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
The CZ-75 is superior to the Beretta in ergos, and accuracy, although the Beretta is no slouch. I compared both platforms about 12 or 13 years ago, and chose the CZ, and never looked back.

The best place to find a CZ to buy is on the net if you can't find one locally, and have it transferred by a dealer. You can also order the Kadet Kit, and have it shipped to your home, no FFL needed for the conversion unit.
I've looked online and found what I believe to be the best price. CZ custom shop has the 75B for $462 and the SP-01 for $578. I wanted the rail to be able to mount a TLR1 flashlight, but now I'm not so sure if it's worth the extra $116 plus $100 for the flashlight. Still something I need to decide. Its quite a premium just to have an accessory rail.

I was able to find the kadet conversion for $355.

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Old October 1, 2012, 03:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
I was able to find the kadet conversion for $355.
How much more is the complete Kadet?.

I paid $499 for the 9mm pistol,,,
$599 for the Kadet pistol.

Aarond

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Old October 1, 2012, 03:46 PM   #25
Pilot
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I have the 75B, and a PCR, and a friend I shoot with has the SP-01 (all steel version). Nothing wrong with the 75B, but I think the SP-01 is worth the premium. It seems a little more refined, and I like the additional weight in the muzzle.
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