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Old November 12, 2012, 10:54 PM   #1
blnrsg87
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Need Advice Please...

I am currently looking for my first ccw. I plan to carry ITW and would prefer something in .40 for the time being.

I own two handguns at the moment. I have my grandfather's S&W model 36 snub nose .38 special (the paper in the box is dated 1955) and I recently bought a Beretta 92A1 for my primary home defense gun. (Easier for the wife to fire accurately on nights I'm away, easier to reload in the dark, and has the option for me to attach a light/laser combo for checking the house when the wife hears bumps in the night.)

I have narrowed down my search to 6 options. I would love to hear opinions from people who own one of these guns, comparisons from people who own two or more of them, and/or recommendations that I may not have considered so far. Please offer opinions based on reliability, accuracy, comfort to carry (weight,size,shape), etc... Price is not an issue as I do not mind paying up to around $1000 for a quality handgun that I will be carrying on my person at all times. The guns I am considering are listed below (all chambered in .40).

Sig Sauer P239 SAS Gen 2
PX4 Storm Type F Sub-Compact
H&K P2000 SK
Springfield XD Sub-Compact
Walther PPS
M&P Shield

Thank you in advance for your advice.
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Old November 13, 2012, 12:11 AM   #2
chris in va
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I can only point out one thing. Recoil with full house 40's and small guns will be considerable. Range time will consist of a mag or two. Just a thought.
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Old November 13, 2012, 12:20 AM   #3
blnrsg87
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Thanks for the reply. I am a member at my local range and have free range time. Me and a couple buddies typically go about once every two weeks and go through about 100-150 rounds each of assorted ammo on average. I am a fairly large guy and can handle recoil fairly well. One of the friends I shoot with has the M&P shield in .45 and I've put probably 50 rounds through it without much of a problem. So recoil with .40 isn't something that I am particularly concerned about. I appreciate the input though.
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Old November 13, 2012, 12:31 AM   #4
willmc33
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I have a Shield in 9mm and it has alittle over 1000 rounds now and it has been an outstanding pistol. Recoil in the 9mm loading is exceptionally light for a 9mm that small. Reliablity and quality are dead on,trigger is good,sights are good,handles well,and is very accurate even part reasonable SD distances. I would throw a vote for the Shield.
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Old November 13, 2012, 12:42 AM   #5
blnrsg87
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Having shot the Shield in .45, I can say I liked how it felt in my hands. It noticeably thinner than the PX4 that the same friend had me fire, which seems to me would be a positive for a ccw. I have not handled/fired any of the other guns listed. Thanks for your vote.
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Old November 13, 2012, 01:27 AM   #6
MLeake
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Of the guns you have listed, I have owned several in 9mm, but none in .40.

In 9mm, I've owned or still own the PPS, SIG P239 DAK SAS, and PX4 SubCompact.

Of those, the PPS is the lightest, most concealable and the most accurate. I don't completely like its magazine system, as I don't like the possibility that a mag could work loose and disable the gun (safety built into the grip to avoid "cleaning" deaths) and I am not comfortable dropping the mags, with their polymer hooks, onto concrete (which inhibits speed reloading drills).

The P239 is larger than the PPS, but would take a very close second for accuracy.

I didn't care for the PX4 SubCompact. It's fat, so it isn't nearly as concealable as its size would suggest. OTOH, it's similar in dimensions to the P239, but holds a lot more rounds... In the PX4 family, I find the Compact to be the ideal size. Also, the Compact has the rotating barrel, whereas the SubCompact has more of a Browning type tilting setup; the rotating barrel helps absorb recoil. Unfortunately, last I checked, the Compact was still not available in .40; only the full-size and SC were. Last ding on the SubCompact, for me, is that with my reasonably large hands, the primary magazine with the step-down front of its floor-plate, worked well, but the spares left my little finger in an awkward position.

I haven't bothered with a Shield. I have an M&P9c, and have no trouble concealing its grip, so I see no need to give up capacity or deal with a small grip (I use the large backstraps on the M&P line).
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Old November 13, 2012, 02:49 AM   #7
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Smith & Wesson is making the Shield in .45acp now?
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Old November 13, 2012, 05:07 AM   #8
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Thank you for your response. At first I'll have to admit I was leaning hard toward the P239. It's good to hear it's close to top in someone's opinion who has owned multiple similar options. And as far as the shield, I believe I was mistaken. It was my buddy's PX4 I fired in .45 and his Shield was a .40.
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Old November 13, 2012, 05:24 AM   #9
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I think pretty much everything you listed is solid and will serve you well.

That said, if money isn't an issue I'd recommend the HK, the Smith, and the Sig, in that order.

The 239 is interesting. It's big and heavy for what it carries, but it's a wonderfully balanced and reliable pistol. Won't carry nearly as nicely as the PPS or Shield, but probably shoots more comfortably than anything else on the list.

I love my PX4 fullsize, and I like the PX4 compacts, but I'm not huge on the subcompacts. Not sure why.
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Old November 13, 2012, 09:06 AM   #10
blnrsg87
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Thank you for the response! I've had many google searches lead me to your posts/responses on this forum (which is part of what lead me to joining last night). You always seem to be quite helpful and thorough.
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Old November 13, 2012, 09:41 AM   #11
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why no Glock? a G23 or G27 are great carry guns and require no though in a pinch. they don't have 65% of the market for no reason
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Old November 13, 2012, 09:56 AM   #12
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I thought the reason was because they all but handed them out at LGS if your sister's brother's uncle's cousin's former college roommate once dated a guy that may or may not have been in the Police Explorers scout troop growing up? If it makes you feel any better he didn't list any of the pistols with enough quality they can charge full price for either, like my 1911.
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Old November 13, 2012, 10:10 AM   #13
TailGator
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I'm not clear on whether you have actually shot a .40 or not. If not, try before you buy. The recoil has a feel that some people don't care for.
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Old November 13, 2012, 01:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
One of the friends I shoot with has the M&P shield in .45 and I've put probably 50 rounds through it without much of a problem. So recoil with .40 isn't something that I am particularly concerned about. I appreciate the input though.
This is a serious misnomer. I hope you have actually shot a 40 before, and extensively at that. While I have nothing particular against it, it is not a 45. Just because the 45 is larger doesn't mean it has more felt recoil. In fact if most people I know had to rank it, they would do 9mm < 45ACP < 40SW. I do not like the 40SW in a light subcompact gun. In a metal firearm or one with some weight okay, but even then I find I don't shoot it as well as the other two calibers.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your reason for going the 40SW route?
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Old November 13, 2012, 08:36 PM   #15
blnrsg87
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I did admit to mis-speaking about the caliber of the Shield I had fired. I clarified that I had fired the Shield in .40 and it had been the PX4 that I had fired in .45. My friend has about a dozen handguns and we fire a few different ones every time we go to the range. It's easy to get them mixed up in your head when so many of them are produced in multiple calibers.

I have put at least 50-100 rounds through almost all the guns he owns, everything from a .380, to a few different sized 9mm's, to a couple different sized .40's, and a few different sized .45's. Perceived recoil is just that, perceived, and none of them really bother me. As for my preference, it is also just that, a preference. Of the handguns I have shot, and of the two larger calibers that I considered carrying, I am more capable of accurately rapidly firing the guns I've fired in .40.

I do understand that recoil in a small and light framed .40 can rival that of a large heavy .45. I'm not asking about that. I simply asked for opinions on the guns I had listed or others I may not have thought of. (As for the glocks, there's nothing technical about them that bothers me, I just don't like the overall feel of most of the ones I've handled.) If you do not have have something productive and on topic to add to the conversation about those guns, please don't drag down this thread by throwing in your assumptions about whether or not I've shot a .40. It's off-topic, doesn't help me in the least, and probably detracts others who may have valid input from posting to this thread.

And as a final note, no JimDandy, I do not have a gun chosen to equal the "quality" of your 1911. That has nothing to do with this thread even in the slightest, and I do not appreciate the response. If you can find me a 1911 with the size and other requirements I've stated I'm interested in, and can then explain to me why it is more valuable than any and/or all the options I'm considering, please do so. That would be worth reading and I would consider it a personal favor if someone showed me a gun that meets my carry preferences that was of higher quality and value than the ones I was looking at. Otherwise please don't clutter my thread with useless posts. Thank you.

Does anyone have any valid advice to offer?
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Old November 13, 2012, 08:42 PM   #16
TunnelRat
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Quote:
Of the handguns I have shot, and of the two larger calibers that I considered carrying, I am more capable of accurately rapidly firing the guns I've fired in .40.
That is more likely due to the firearm than the caliber.

Quote:
If you do not have have something productive and on topic to add to the conversation about those guns, please don't drag down this thread by throwing in your assumptions about whether or not I've shot a .40. It's off-topic, doesn't help me in the least, and probably detracts others who may have valid input from posting to this thread.

And as a final note, no JimDandy, I do not have a gun chosen to equal the "quality" of your 1911. That has nothing to do with this thread even in the slightest, and I do not appreciate the response.

Does anyone have any valid advice to offer?
You're taking offense to people that are trying to help you and have been around this forum for a while. I don't see how anything said at this point is in the slightest bit offensive. If you don't want our advice, don't take it.
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Old November 13, 2012, 08:45 PM   #17
WillyKern69
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I carry a Khar MK40. It is not on your list, but one you might want to consider. I have the all steel frame. It may seem a littler hevier, but when you shoot a .40 out of a 21/2 inch barrel a little extra weight helps. I think with your method of carry you would not notice the difference. It seems to me you could pick a used one up very resonable. Kahr seems to have wanned on its popularity with all the new choices and I have seen them more and more showing up at the shows. I think they are a amazing little package.
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Old November 13, 2012, 09:50 PM   #18
blnrsg87
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Thanks WillyKern. I appreciate the input. I'll have to look that up.

And TunnelRat, I did not take offense to anything you had to say (or many others). I simply made it clear that I had shot a few firearms in .40 and a few others in many other calibers, and that recoil is something that I have found not to be an issue. I then redirected the thread toward it's original topic.

I also did not take offense to JimDandy's post. I just asked him not to post at all if he had nothing helpful to say. Please read my original post and let me know how his response was meant to be helpful in my decision making process at all.

Quote:
If it makes you feel any better he didn't list any of the pistols with enough quality they can charge full price for either, like my 1911.
I simply prefer threads that I keep up with (especially threads that I start because I'm looking for specific information that can only be garnered by asking a community of people with expertise in the field) to be neat, concise, and on-topic. Other posts about what caliber I want to fire, their perceived recoil, and why I chose them did not address what I was asking. I simply responded to those briefly and asked to stay on topic. JimDandy's post seriously added nothing of value to the conversation at all (nothing personal against him) and I directed a comment to him asking him to either: A.) Elaborate on his comment so that it actually contributes to the original purpose of the thread; or B.) Not make posts on the thread that add nothing of worth to the discussion at hand.

After re-reading my post I see that it would be easy to read sarcasm into some of the things I said, but sarcasm (or defensiveness) was honestly not intended. The honest and concise exchange of information and the request for the same in return were all that was intended.
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Old November 13, 2012, 10:11 PM   #19
TunnelRat
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I think JimDandy was just joking. We tend to do that sometimes, to have fun?
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Old November 13, 2012, 10:35 PM   #20
blnrsg87
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I see. Sorry I just didn't read it that way. I like an occasional joke as well, just didn't read it as one. Context is so damn hard to get through online sometimes. Sorry if anyone was offended. Just trying to get the information I came for and got a little tunnel vision. No pun intended. No hard feelings here.
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Old November 13, 2012, 10:57 PM   #21
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Don't worry about it. I've gotten in trouble a number of times. You're right that sarcasm and text aren't good friends.

To your question, that's a fine list of guns. My advice is this: decide on a trigger system first to narrow the field. You have a list with both DA/SA (double action/sing action) hammer fired and safe-action striker fired pistols. Both designs are good and have their pluses and minuses. Try and figure which you like better and that will be the biggest help.
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Old November 13, 2012, 11:19 PM   #22
jackpine
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just use the 92fs and a good quality belt/holster set up
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Old November 13, 2012, 11:40 PM   #23
blnrsg87
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Thanks. In all honesty the trigger situation is one that I've probably spent the least time thinking about. Kind of a major lack of forethought considering just how important that is to speed, accuracy, and safety. If you have any pro's and con's you've found with different types I'd be happy to hear them.

And as for carrying the 92, for one I'd really rather carry a round with a little more stopping power; it's only available in the 9mm version I own... But mainly I REALLY don't wanna lug that thing around inside my waistband all day. It's huge. Wide, long, tall, heavy... I LOVE it for the range and at home, but I spend a lot of time in shorts and a shirt, and a good amount of time in scrubs (I'm a nurse in a pediatric intensive care unit). The 92 would stick out like a sore thumb in most of the clothes I wear, and it would damn near drag a pair of scrubs to the ground. Thanks for the input. Love the gun, just not what I'm looking to carry.
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Old November 14, 2012, 12:41 AM   #24
MLeake
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One other comment re the PX4 SubCompact - mine tended to shoot low, even with 147 grain bullets. It was very low with 115s.

A dealer friend of mine indicated this was not unusual for the SubCompacts.

My Compact hits right on POA, and really is not much harder to conceal than the SC.

All that said, I usually carry a 1911...

One last edit: I have had zero failures with the PPS, M&P, or PX4 line so far. They are boringly reliable.
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Old November 14, 2012, 12:59 AM   #25
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Go with the HK P2000SK. I've had and shot a lot of handguns, and the P2000SK is easily the best performing subcompact 40 I've experienced. I found it more controllable than the larger Glock 23, while sized close to the Glock 27.
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