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Old November 12, 2012, 04:30 PM   #1
JimDandy
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Copper fouling...

So I have a wild hair after going on a range trip this past weekend.. sighted in two optics sets for my AR, ran some handloads through my pistol, and rang the gong/bell at 225 yards as well. Anyway, long story short, I ran some copper solvent through my Rem 700 BDL that I bought used, and have only taken to a range once or twice. Wow. I watched three footbal games, running two dry patches to clear the last treatment out, followed by a wet patch from about halftime of the first game until about 11PM that night, left it overnight like the bottle said, and I'm still getting blue patches out of the thing.

In my head, I know that there isn't really all that much copper in there, it just seems like it because it cleans out so slow, but my gut reaction is wondering how the heck the thing didn't blow up in my hands because the bore was several calibers smaller from all the copper .
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Old November 12, 2012, 06:08 PM   #2
FiveInADime
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I bought a can of Wipe-Out about a year ago and havent looked back. Guns that would not come clean with various solvents were clean with one use of Wipe-Out. I spray it in the bore before I leave the range or desert and after a few hours I run patches until they come out clean. I was running a patch of Hoppes after, but I stopped when it became evident I didnt need to any more.
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Old November 12, 2012, 06:12 PM   #3
JimDandy
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Yeah, I saw a semi-scientific report of various cleaners, wipe-out wasn't on it, but Mpro-7 copper remover got the nicest reviews for copper fouling, so I've got a little bottle of that on the way. I'm just thinking the previous owner may not have cleaned, and I'm bemused by how many solid blue patches I'm getting back...
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Old November 13, 2012, 08:31 AM   #4
wogpotter
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M-pro 7 is good stuff, but youy need to also use the "Gun Cleaner" alternately with the "Copper remover' for the best results. This is because the carbon & copper are layered like plywood. The "Gun Cleaner" also neutralizes the "Copper Remover".

Also don't be upset when you see no blue or green. Thats a product of ammonia-based metal solvents. M-Pro& is not ammonia based & the removed material is black or tan in color.
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Old November 13, 2012, 08:50 AM   #5
hooligan1
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Bore Tech Eliminator works well also, it's all I use for copper fouling.
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Old November 13, 2012, 09:38 AM   #6
Rimfire5
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I've been told that during multiple shooting sessions without decoppering a bore, it gets layered with copper covered with powder residue and then during the next use copper builds up on the residue and gets covered with more residue. So when you finally decopper the barrel, you litereally are peeling off layers of copper.
I can't prove that it happens but is sure would explain why after a first cleaning you might have noticed a significant second dose of copper on the next cleaning.

+1 for Wipe Out foam for calibers over .224. It has the added benefit of not needing additional cleaning after its use.
For .223 calibers, the foam can nipple doesn't fit into a .224 bore and goes the foam all over the chamber and action when I tried it.
Now I use the Patch Out fluid on patches for my .223 and .22-250 and it still works the Wipe out miracles. Even with the foam, a patch of Wipe Out Accelerator fluid makes it decopper even better in about half the time.
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Old November 13, 2012, 09:40 AM   #7
JimDandy
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Mostly I was just amazed I was getting solid blue patches back instead of a rifled blue streak on them, I think I finally finished up... finally ran two straight patches without blue streaks, now it's time for a trip to the range to see what, if anything, that did for me, as well as see if I can knock anything else loose inside there after another cleaning session on the thing with fresh firing done on it.
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Old November 13, 2012, 06:27 PM   #8
Catfish
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So you think your gun had alot of copper in. I cleaned the copper out of a gun for a friend that was 30 years old and had a few 100 rounds a year put dowm the tube and had never seen any copper soulven. After 50 patches of Sweets, and the last as blue as the first, I went out and shot it. He had quite shooting it because it was no longer accurate enough to hit a groundhog at 100 yrds, and I put 5 rounds in at abt .600 so I quit cleaning the bore and cleaned up the rst of the gun and sent it home. He used it for another 15 years untill he died and that was the only copper solvent it ever saw, and it was still shooting good.
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Old November 13, 2012, 10:02 PM   #9
ripnbst
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That's a heck of a story.
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Old November 13, 2012, 11:58 PM   #10
RC20
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No personnel experience with it but I like the sounds of the Outers Foul Out III.

It sounds like my kind of solution and I plan to buy one.
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Old November 14, 2012, 12:34 AM   #11
warbirdlover
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I tried loading the original Barnes X-bullet (years ago) in the 7mm-08 I had and fired about 20 rounds. I cleaned copper out of that barrel (Browning A-Bolt Micro-Medallion) for two days! I don't know how the new all copper bullets are but I will never again shoot them in any gun I own.
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Old November 14, 2012, 12:50 AM   #12
mehavey
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Please see the following test results, measured in grains of actual copper removed.
TEST
I won't even overtly name the product at this point.

But its use mirrors my own results in actual field use for the last three years after
40 frustrating years of everything else.

One session -- very wet patch, wait 10 min while packing up range gear, dry patch out.
No blue at all then using Butch's Bore Shine merely for indicator purposes thereafter.
None.

Last edited by mehavey; November 14, 2012 at 01:01 AM.
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Old November 14, 2012, 09:27 AM   #13
cw308
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Never used KG-12, I think it's a water based cleaner. I use Wipe-Out Patch-Out, works well. For a deep cleaning JB Compound & Kroil oil followed by a regular cleaning. Old school I clean after every range trip. Never had a problem. Hope I helped, Be Safe Chris
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Old November 14, 2012, 01:13 PM   #14
wogpotter
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KG is good stuff, it also works without using ammonia so you should not see green or blue, but brownish to black discoloration. I eneded up trying both M-pro-7 & KG. both worked, but the M-pro wetted into patches better. KG tends to not wick in, but ball up. Minor thing but there had to be one winner & it was M-pro.
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Old November 14, 2012, 01:16 PM   #15
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehavey
Please see the following test results, measured in grains of actual copper removed.
Well now. Not much arguing with those results, is there.
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Old November 14, 2012, 02:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
KG tends to not wick in, but ball up
You noticed that too huh. That's the only thing I didn't like about the KG-12. It works but is hard to use.
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Old November 14, 2012, 05:00 PM   #17
wogpotter
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Yup the KG-12 seemed initially to be the better choice because its a single solution solution not a 2 solution one. I actually ended up wasting quite a lot before I figured out it had to go into a cupped patch to soak in.

I wonder why they didn't add some kind oif surfececant(sp?) or wetting agent? then it would be even better.
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Old November 14, 2012, 06:24 PM   #18
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If all that copper was smoothing out/filling imperfections in the bore, it may shoot worse now that it is all removed. Every barrel needs some level of copper fouling- which is why no one removes copper and then takes a cold bore shot that needs to "count". Some rifles get back their accuracy after only a round or two. Others can take a couple dozen. Experiment to find out what works for yours...

The military no longer removes copper from their(sniper rifle) barrels until there is a drop off in accuracy. Every rifle is different, some need a level of copper fouling to shoot well- depends on the quality of the barrel.

Do a search, lots of discussion on this.
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Old November 14, 2012, 06:50 PM   #19
JimDandy
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I understood that, just did it because it was new to me, but not new period... so I figured I'd get to some sort of baseline so I knew how much had been sent down range and I could start keeping at least quasi-track.
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Old November 14, 2012, 06:56 PM   #20
jhenry
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I use Sweets 7.62 myself. Any used gun gets decoppered. After that I just do a treatment if accuracy starts to suffer. There is really no need to get all anal about it, but it is an issue that can absolutely have a deleterious effect on the accuracy of a rifle.
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Old November 14, 2012, 07:12 PM   #21
JimDandy
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I only posted because I was amazed at how many solid blue patches I was getting, and thought I'd see if others had other stories like this.
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Old November 14, 2012, 11:12 PM   #22
kilotanker22
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Try gun slick bore foam works for powder and copper. Also instead of a patch I run my.bore snake up through after ward twice and that gets it all out. I had the same problem with patches in my 270.
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