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Old November 14, 2012, 10:41 PM   #1
kilotanker22
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on second thought

A bit back I posted a thread about several magnum cartridges and lately I am rethinking the 300 rum and considering a 25-06 or a 7mm rem mag. I think that accuracy and ease of matching to a good load would be had more conveniently than Remington's 30 caliber hot rod. Not to mention a lot less recoil.

What y'all think? The gun will be a 26 inch heavy barreled Remington 700.
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Old November 14, 2012, 10:45 PM   #2
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I think you're having a good thought.
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Old November 14, 2012, 11:38 PM   #3
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Smart decision. If your stuck between the two cartridges check out the 280. It is about the best compromise between both. The same bullets as the 7mm (good bc) and the same parent case as the 25-06. Good for all North American big game and inherently more accurate than the belted case 7mm mag.
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Old November 15, 2012, 12:01 AM   #4
kilotanker22
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Big al I already have a 270 wsm and like the performance. It is quite close the the 7 mm rem. The reason it is between the two calibers mentioned above is the rifle I want is only chambered in 300 rum 300 win 7mm rem and 25-06 rem.
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Old November 15, 2012, 12:41 AM   #5
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Given those choices and considering that you have a 270wsm I would say the 25-06 would give you a pleasant gun to shoot that still gives good trajectory. Kills coyotes pretty well too.
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Old November 15, 2012, 12:55 AM   #6
kilotanker22
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I know about the 25-06 on coyotes. The only one I ever shot was with my friends 25-06 with 75 grain sierra blitzking. I shot it in the head and It was not pretty.
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Old November 15, 2012, 09:35 AM   #7
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I too would go with the 25/06 since you already own the 270WSM. As stated the 270WSM and 7mm Remington Mag are so close there really isn't a need to own both (unless of course you just want to own one).
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Old November 15, 2012, 10:56 AM   #8
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Remington is now making three "loads" for their .300 RUM. Different velocities (and recoil) for what you'll be using it for I guess. Probably still really expensive.
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Old November 15, 2012, 11:01 AM   #9
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We have a Browning A-bolt in 7mm mag.

My thoughts on it are that it is a bit too much gun for the local terrain and the local game. Its heavy woods and shots past 100 yards is uncommon. The largest game we commonly go after is whitetail deer, some of the largest getting to 250lbs.

If we shot a whitetail with it, I am sure it would put it down in its tracks. There are just so many other options that won't tear the animal apart as badly.

If you have wide open spaces and large game, or want to try shooting out to 1000 yards, it is a great option.

The .25-06 is really appealing personally. The .30-06 takes down the whitetail here with authority. Necking it down to a .25 gives a bit more velocity, something I really like. Plenty of speed and energy behind it to take down anything I need it to.
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Old November 15, 2012, 11:06 AM   #10
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Look hard at the 270 Win and the 280 Rem.
I would take either one of them instead of a belted Mag or short mag for most purposes.
Speaking from a lot of experience I can say I don't see any cartridge out there between a 30-06 and a 9.3X62 or 375H&H that does a lot more then the 270-30-06 range of shells.

If you use a good bullet they all kill elk and moose about the same from 270 to 300 mags.

(Sacrilege say some, but those that do have probably not seen over 100 elk killed with various calibers. I have! I have hunted them and guided hunts for them now for nearly 40 years)

Proper bullets matched to the game you hunt is a lot more important than the “powder bottle” that holds the fuel to launch them.

A 270 Winchester with 150 grain round nosed “Core-Lok” bullets penetrated WAY more and kills WAY better on elk than a 300 Weatherby loaded with about any 150 grain bullet (except the solid copper ones.)
Why?
The 270 “Cor-Lok”expands and hold together so it punches right through leaving a good would channel
The 300 Weatherby with the 150 grain bullets will hit going so fast that the bullet breaks up in the first 3 inches of penetration and in MOST cases the largest piece you will find will weigh less than 40 grains. 40 gain and lighter fragments don’t retain their velocity well in meat and organs, and they DON’T go very deep.

Now if you use a bullet that won’t blow up like a bonded or a Barnes X the whole scenario changes in favor of the 300.

Guys, bullets don’t kill. Shells don’t kill. Rifles don’t kill.
BULLET WOUNDS KILL!

If the wound is large and shallow it may (and often does) leave one lung working on an elk or moose. And unless you have followed them for years I bet most hunters have no idea how far an elk can go on one lung. Trust me, it’s a LONG way and without a good exit wound, they are NOT easy to follow especially if they are in a herd of other elk.

I have never lost a wounded one yet (thank God) but I have followed them for hours before I was able to get back on them.

Anyway, back to the 1st point.
If you go with a 270 or a 280 I believe you will be happier.
You get less recoil, much better barrel life, more magazine capacity (if that matters) and less expensive ammo with either factory loads or hand loads.

To get better kills on big game than a 270 will give you, you do need to go bigger, but not just 10%-20%. I DO see a marked improvement with a 375H&H over my 270 on moose and buffalo. But on elk and moose I have yet to see a 300 mag that seemed to do much better than a good 270,280 or 30-06.

I know this kind of talk doesn’t sell the “new and improved” stuff we see in magazines, but I am telling you the truth here.

Faster makes the guns shoot flatter. That’s true, but even a 308 is flat enough for 400 yard shots with no problem at all if you can judge the range. If you can’t judge the range you should not shoot………with anything.

Well…….let the readers respond.
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Old November 15, 2012, 11:50 AM   #11
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For hunting, and figuring somewhere inside a 500-yard boundary, it seems to me that the old '06 is as good as any. I'm not hollering "best" by any means, nor saying there are no equals. All I know from experience and reading is that the old sumbitch works. A proper hit = meat in the pot.
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Old November 15, 2012, 12:57 PM   #12
kilotanker22
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Like I said earlier I have a 270 and a 270 wsm plus the rifle I want is only chambered for 300 rum 300 win 7mm rem 25-06. Really leaning toward the 25-06.
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Old November 15, 2012, 04:20 PM   #13
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Just to be honest, you don't need another rifle, but you probably already know that. The hotter 270 loads will equal or in many cases beat 270 WSM loads. The 270 with 130 gr bullets will equal 7 mag or 300 mag trajectory and with modern bullets kill stuff just as dead. Your 270 will do anything a 25-06 will do, and do it better with marginally more recoil. Throw in 30-06 and 280 if you like and you are still splitting hairs ballistically between all of them.

Everything you are considering is just a duplicate of what you already own with very slightly different ballistics. If you just have to buy another rifle I'd go in a completely different direction. A lightweight in something like 243, 260, 7-08 for example. Or go big, get a 375. Perhaps a lever action. I cannot see 3 nearly identical rifles that fill the same role.
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Old November 15, 2012, 05:00 PM   #14
kilotanker22
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jmr40

I see your reasoning. I just want a heavy barreled gun for fun varmints target and maybe extreme long range from time to time. Still like the thought of the rum but still have awhile before I buy. There really is no better or worse choice. Really don't need another rifle but why not? The rum is still in the mix.
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Old November 15, 2012, 07:27 PM   #15
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The RUM would be my last choice due to its lack of popularity. Winchester beat it out of the gate and took what market there is for short magnums. The 300 Win short mag is the most popular by far. Given what you already have, go with the 25-06. However you don't really need even that as your 270 Win short mag covers even that. If you want less recoil and handload, just load it down a bit.
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Old November 16, 2012, 02:46 AM   #16
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25-06 will do quite well for elk at 200yds. Deer at 300 are definately in trouble. Out to 400, keep it coyote size or smaller.
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Old November 17, 2012, 08:02 PM   #17
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When I was hunting I used a 7mm Mag.

When I went to sell it (hunting days are over due to back and lack of time) I went and shot it and realized it was the nastiest shooting gun. Far worse than a 375 H&H or 338 Winchester Mag.

It can be tamed with a good recoil pad but........

For varmints something smaller.

270 is a good gun, 06 is more versatile.
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Old November 18, 2012, 09:39 AM   #18
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Nasty?? a 7mm Rem Mag Nasty??? My 7mm rem mag is a Vanguard, which has a little heavier barrel (24 inchs) than other brand but, I can't agree with Nasty,, I gave my son my old Rem 700 3006 adl, that my friend is Nasty, about 4-5 rnds and I'm done..... But my 7mm, I have shot fourty rnds at a range visit, to no effect.
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Old November 18, 2012, 10:16 AM   #19
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It doesn't seem like a .25-06 is the cartridge you really need. It's neither a great target round nor a great woods cartridge. Maybe you should look into another rifle that offers the kind of cartridge you really want to shoot/hunt with?

You already have good hunting cartridges, so why not look into a dedicated varmint or target round and a rifle that will complement it?
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Old November 18, 2012, 10:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Eatman
For hunting, and figuring somewhere inside a 500-yard boundary, it seems to me that the old '06 is as good as any. I'm not hollering "best" by any means, nor saying there are no equals. All I know from experience and reading is that the old sumbitch works. A proper hit = meat in the pot.
You're right, Art, and my .30-06 is my no-thought, go-to rifle for hunting. That having been said, for the past several years I've been tinkering with the .25-06 and it's a magnificent cartridge in its own right. Probably the first wildcat of the -06 family, it's a lot of fun to shoot, has good ballistics, and with good bullets is fully capable of taking almost any game on this continent.

However, the other -06 wildcats are just as good. The .270, the .280, and the .35 Whelen are each wonderful cartridges in their own right. It's tough to choose within that family of cartridges.
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Old November 18, 2012, 01:35 PM   #21
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I can see where the gentleman from Maine could come by his opinion. The 25-06 is really not a moose cartridge. As for target shooting, it does a decent job. Its not a 1000 yard compettitor, but definately a rival for the 243 with more energy down range.
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Old November 18, 2012, 02:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc928porsche
25-06 will do quite well for elk at 200yds. Deer at 300 are definately in trouble. Out to 400, keep it coyote size or smaller.
I can see where the gentleman from Maine could come by his opinion. The 25-06 is really not a moose cartridge. As for target shooting, it does a decent job.
I have a diagnosis for you, sir. You have a case of Magnum-itis. Don't worry though, there's hope.

Start by watching this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

Now reconsider, after seeing a 243 kill an elk, DRT, at 688 yards, your assertion that the 25-06, a cartridge offering nearly 25% more energy than that 243, would only be adequate for coyote and smaller at about 2/3s of the distance that you just watched the 243 drop an elk in it's tracks.

My .204 Ruger is plenty for coyote at 400 yards. A 25-06 is practically overkill. It's certainly plenty for deer out waaay past that distance and coyote as far away as you can hit them. I wouldn't hesitate to use a 25-06 with an appropriate bullet on any animal in North America.
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Old November 18, 2012, 05:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger
I have a diagnosis for you, sir. You have a case of Magnum-itis. Don't worry though, there's hope.

Start by watching this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18

Now reconsider, after seeing a 243 kill an elk, DRT, at 688 yards, your assertion that the 25-06, a cartridge offering nearly 25% more energy than that 243, would only be adequate for coyote and smaller at about 2/3s of the distance that you just watched the 243 drop an elk in it's tracks.
Except the .243 will generally have more energy at 700 yards than a .25-06 will. There are a much better selection of high BC bullets for long range shots with the .243 than the .25-06. If you figure the 105 berger Berger used in the video against the .257 115 grain Berger both launched at 3000 fps the .243 will beat it at 700 yards. It doesn't do it by a whole lot but if you start comparing the other offerings in .257 caliber to the .243 105 Berger the gap between the two starts to widen by a bit.
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Old November 18, 2012, 06:50 PM   #24
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If you reload, the 25 caliber cartridges are hard to beat. My 257 Roberts Hand loads beat anything I worked up in 243.
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Old November 18, 2012, 06:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor1
Except the .243 will generally have more energy at 700 yards than a .25-06 will. There are a much better selection of high BC bullets for long range shots with the .243 than the .25-06. If you figure the 105 berger Berger used in the video against the .257 115 grain Berger both launched at 3000 fps the .243 will beat it at 700 yards. It doesn't do it by a whole lot but if you start comparing the other offerings in .257 caliber to the .243 105 Berger the gap between the two starts to widen by a bit.
Perhaps, but I use that video only to demonstrate the silliness of suggesting that a 25-06 isn't good for anything bigger than a coyote at 400 yards. A comparison at 700 might be different, but 400 is barely even considered a long shot for virtually any center-fire cartridge.

Edit:

JBM diagrees with your assumption there too... Using load data from Hodgdon to guestimate the muzzle velocity of two bullets, and using 2,900fps for the 105gr Berger .243 and 3,050 for the 115gr Berger .257, the energies are within 50ft/lbs at 700 yards and it's in favor of the 25-06. Even dropping the 25-06 to 2,900 to match the 243, the 25-06 is within about 30 ft/lbs of the 243, but lower.
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