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Old November 12, 2012, 09:21 AM   #1
kwm1971
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.243 reload stuck in chamber

I reloaded some .243 with Lee Collett dies. When we chambered it in a handi rifle it stuck. It wouldn't eject and couldn't be pryed out, even after discharging. pushed round out with a 3/16" rod.

"What did I do wrong with the reload?"
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Old November 12, 2012, 09:40 AM   #2
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It stuck before you fired it? That means something didn't fit as it was loaded. So a couple questions.

When you say collet die, do you mean the sort of neck sizer die they sell? If that's it, and you used correct 6MM bullets in regular 243 brass, then you probably have it set wrong. Maybe you are actually squishing the shoulder if it goes in too deep. Did you reload a batch of them? If so, do the others fit the chamber?
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Old November 12, 2012, 09:43 AM   #3
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Can you give us the details of your load recipe?
My first question would be,
1. how easy did it chamber?
1-b what was the COL?
A round that will not eject would not be one I would fire, YMMV but any reload should feed in and out smoothly unless you are short sizing for a personnal reason.
Have you made up any dummy loads for that loading? I will make one and it is used after test feeding to adjust bullet seating die.
Another question, and only because it came up in a related post recently, how long was this firearm loaded before not exstracting??
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Old November 12, 2012, 03:17 PM   #4
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Was the brass previously fired in that rifle, or different rifle?
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Old November 12, 2012, 04:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
"What did I do wrong with the reload?"
The most common problem folks create using the Lee collet die is they buckle the shoulder. If you did and it was not all that noticeable, it could certainly cause the round to stick in the chamber.

The buckle or bulge in the shoulder is much like having the crimp die set wrong. The most common cause is somebody tried the die out without brass in it. This can cause the collet to collapse inward and the mouth of the case can buckle or bulge the shoulder when the case enters the collet. It is very easy to fix. Just disassemble the die, and run a taper punch to spread the collet. This is covered on the Lee website.
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Old November 15, 2012, 06:46 PM   #6
kwm1971
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here's answers to yours that might help me:

-Brass was previously fired from this gun
-COL was within range
-all other rounds have been checked for fit after this and all are good.
-My son chambered the round in his handi-rifle and he said it closed rough. That prompted him to open the rifle and check the round.
- I attempted to fire the round after it was stuck ( not wise in afterthought )
- We waited 1/2 hr after round was discharged before forcing in out.
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Old November 15, 2012, 08:29 PM   #7
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My guess is that the previously fired loads were pretty hot. If so, then being neck sized would leave the OP with a case that was really tight. I ran into that scenario with my Dad's 223 Handi-rifle. Some mid-range loads I made for it were way too hot. After that, if I had neck sized them instead of FL resizing them, I doubt they'd have chambered easily or at all.
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Old November 16, 2012, 02:12 PM   #8
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Hmm?
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Old November 16, 2012, 03:06 PM   #9
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Again, it is not fair, I know if my reloads will chamber before I chamber them, I have an advantage, I do not fall for every bit and or piece of information available on the Internet, I would suggest you go back to using your full length sizer dies, I would suggest you learn to determine the length of the chamber from the bolt face? to the shoulder of the chamber, my opinion, you sized your case when you ‘snapped the barrel shut’, as opposed to closing the bolt with felt bolt resistance. I know, benchresters lube their cases? Again, my opinion, if you are going to size your cases when you latch up your barrel I recommend lubing your cases for easy extraction.

I do not know how many different dies are available for the reloader, I suggest the reloader get all the use out of out of a full length sizer die before taking Internet advise as in “You just ‘gotta’ have one of those Lee colet dies etc., ....”, again, I suggest mastering the full length sizer die first, THEN! there is the diameter of the case, the head of the case, the shoulder of the case and all points in between and beyond.

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Old November 16, 2012, 03:20 PM   #10
F. Guffey
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http://www.hr1871.com/firearms/rifles/handirifle.asp

Review of the Handi rifle: The Handi is a break over rifle, when fired the Handi does not offer the same stiffness of a bolt action with the barrel screwed in to the front of the a action. I am the fan of rigidity,

“And their smooth, simple break actions require very little maintenance and have minimal moving parts for the utmost in reliable function” I had rather than not have fewer parts, I had rather have parts that do not move.

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Old November 16, 2012, 10:44 PM   #11
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I'm not absolutely sure what F Guffey just said, but I think we are in agreement that FL sizing would be good for that Handi-rifle.
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Old November 17, 2012, 09:43 AM   #12
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Well he's saying, ( I'm hearing) that the OP needs to pay attention to his resizing efforts for his rifle and snapping the rifle shut on the brass isn't necessarily the best way....
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Old November 17, 2012, 12:25 PM   #13
F. Guffey
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“I'm not absolutely sure what F Guffey just said”

forgive, I did not assume anyone on this forum knew what a Handi rifle was, so, I posted a link, I did not assume those that were/are familiar with the Handi rifle knew there were reviews not written by the manufacturer of the Handi rifle. I do not have a Handi rifle, but if I did I would treat the rifle like I treat chamber gages and Wilson case gages and other stuff I make, before I got to the range and while reloading I would use the open rifle like a chamber gage, anything that would not chamber while reloading will not chamber at the range, I would not wait until I completed loading 200 rounds before I checked the reloads for their ability to be chambered.

Part of the response was a quote from the link, the quote was confusing, in my opinion, I am the fan of putting parts together that have rigidity, to me there seems to be a problem with making something like a rifle that is ridged when there is a gap between the breach and barrel, again, I am in favor of surrounding the chamber, barrel and bolt with a receiver, not against the Handi rifle but if I was loading for the Handi I would not entertain the ideal the design was as strong as other designs. And, if I had one I would use a feeler gage to check the gap between the breach face and the barrel, back to reviews, if other designs flex when fired it is possible the Handi rifle flexes, if the Handi flexes it is possible the action does not have enough ‘snap back’ ‘jump back’ to return the case to fired condition, as in easy extraction because of the memory built into the design of the case. Then there is that part where a case is not fully grown until it has been fired 5 times.

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Old November 17, 2012, 05:09 PM   #14
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I have loaded for a Handi-rifle that belonged to my Dad. It shot considerably better than I thought it would, for such an inexpensive rifle. He had requested that I handload some ammo for him, and with him being 400 miles from me, I took some FL sized cases and loaded up some mild to medium loads (several powders behind the 63 gr Sierra SMP) and drove over to his place to test the ammo. What I found was that the medium loads were pretty hot in his rifle, resulting in flattened primers and stuck cases. So when the OP was talking about stuck cases, I immediately thought back to my experience. In that rifle, I would only FL size cases. If the OP neck sized cases, particularly if they were from hot loads (and again, medium loads in that rifle can be hot loads), they would be hard to chamber and would likely stick in the chamber before being fired.

And what you said about running the rounds into the chamber before going to the range is most certainly what he should have done, and I'll guess that he'll do it from now on.
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Old November 17, 2012, 07:40 PM   #15
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You can find a mod by doing a google search that will turn your ejector into an extractor.

It is very easy to do with a vise and dremel and I can say from experience, ejection problems will be a thing of the past after performing the mod.

You'll need a vise, something to grind a little metal off the ejector, and punches to remove two pins.
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Old November 25, 2012, 02:15 PM   #16
kwm1971
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we went to shoot some of the 243 reloads that fit the chamber and found out why they were sticking. We dropped one in chamber, with good fit. felt something drag when closing the action. It looks like some of the primers are not in all the way and when the action is closed the round is being pushed in tighted by putting pressure on primer.

---- Can I reseat the primers into the case, if i pull the bullets and remove the powder?????
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Old November 25, 2012, 02:47 PM   #17
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Before Mr. Guffey posted the caution about the powder filling in the primer pocket space I would have reseated any high primers, but now I have good information that this is not a good practice.
Pull your loads and de-prime. If it were me I would drape the press to get a look at how much powder might get in the pockets and even if I saw none I would still use this precaution.
Now re-using primers that have been previously seated is by many alright to re-use. I however would make sure and only use them in practice ammo and mark the batch as such because I have had 2 miss-fires from recycled primers.
That in no way is proof, but the odds are that recycled primers are suspect.
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Old November 25, 2012, 05:16 PM   #18
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As others have pointed out... you really need to FL size the cases for those break-action rifles. I've loaded for several of them over the years, and had my best results from FL sized cases.

This of course could have the tendency to shorten case life a bit, as you're fully sizing the case each time you reload it, but for the relatively weak extraction of the H&R design (spring ejection), it helps a lot to give the case a full length size so that it won't end up being as tight in the chamber after firing.

Keep your chamber dry of any oil or solvent. That has a tendency to create a hydraulic lock on the case... keep it dry and clean.

After the rifle has been used for a time, it should begin to eject more positively. Try a couple different brands of brass to see if you can find one that ejects better than others...

But don't use the Lee Collet for this rifle... it's not going to size the case at all, and pretty much guarantee a failed ejection...

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Old November 25, 2012, 07:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
My son chambered the round in his handi-rifle and he said it closed rough.
Hanidps are known for rough chambers. I have four of them, and while there is a lot to recommend them, they need a little tweaking for best operation. In the case of chambers, it's fairly easy to polish the chamber. My method involves an electric hand drill, a soft cotton mop, and some valve grinding compound. I put a little valve-grinding compound on the mop, chuck the mop in the drill, and run the mop into the chamber on a low speed. It doesn't take long at all, simply run the mop in and out the chamber several times and the chamber will polish nicely.

Handi's don't have a real strong ejection, being a spring-operated lever. It doesn't take much to stick a cartridge in the chamber. Polishing that chamber helps.
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Old November 25, 2012, 07:58 PM   #20
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Dan and PawPaw, I had been ordered by my sister to take an inch of the stock of my late Dad's 223 Handirifle so her grandkids could shoot it, so I did that this afternoon. I was walking it back to the gun rack when I saw some 223 handloads of mine just sitting there. I remembered that somebody recently brought up ejection issues with those rifles and I didn't remember if Dad's rifle just brought the case head up so you could grab it, or if it had what we might call positive ejection. And I didn't know if a fireformed case from my rifle would chamber in his rifle (I had no intention of shooting it). The fireformed case chambered easily, and I closed the action. Then I opened the action, and thank goodness my face was out of the line of ejection. The rifle shot the case a good 10 feet, where it hit a wall and fell behind a couch. Yup...ejection is positive, though it wasn't a fired case.
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Old November 27, 2012, 05:57 PM   #21
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Load a squib load with no primer and just a bullet. No primer will keep you from accidentally loading it in the future. Seat your bullet. Measure the shoulder. If it is larger, then you are crushing the shoulder with the bullet seat. If that is the case the. Re set your bullet seat die by placing a case in the die, and turning the bullet seat die in until you feel it hit the neck. Then back the bullet seat out 1 complete turn and set your set screw. Adjust the bullet seat to your desires col using top adjustment.

If the shoulder is not crushed, the use a full length resize.

Make sure you discard the squib you just made after you are done.
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Old November 27, 2012, 09:48 PM   #22
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So what was the load?
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