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Old November 13, 2012, 11:30 PM   #26
ripnbst
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My vote is for .223 and it was an easy choice.
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Old November 13, 2012, 11:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Picher
I used the .22-250 to kill deer in the past, but the 1:14 twist couldn't stabilize 60 grain bullets, so I was handloading 55 grain solid-based bullets that were available back then. It's unclear whether the 1:14 twist would stabilize 55 grain Barnes TSX bullets or Nosler 60 grain Partitions. Mine wouldn't stabilize 60 grain bullets.
You're right the 1:14 twist of the Tikka probaly will not stabalize the 55 grain TSX or 60 grain Partition. However it will stabalize the 45 grain TSX bullet as the little H&R my buddy's son used is a 1:12 twist barrel. It wouldn't stabalize anything but regular 55 grain and lighter bullets. So when he wanted to use it on his TX hunt my friend handloaded those 45 grain bullets, the 50 grain TSX might work as well but he didn't try any.
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Old November 14, 2012, 06:40 PM   #28
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Love my 22-250, wouldn't want to be wo one. 223 will be cheaper to shoot, 243 probably better suited for hunting.
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Old November 14, 2012, 07:07 PM   #29
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.223 would be best cost wise. Younger shooters need lots of practice (We all do) and the lower costs of shooting .223 would allow you do do more of it.

As already pointed out there are newer great hunting projectiles for the .223 that make it a good choice for small to medium game.

I too am a fan of the 22-250 but it takes 6-8 grains more of powder to reload. It adds up if you shoot a bunch.
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Old November 14, 2012, 07:10 PM   #30
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.243 all the way. Down load it to shoot 55gr for yotes and ground squirrels or load it up for deer and hog. Very versatile and hardly any recoil.
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Old November 14, 2012, 07:12 PM   #31
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You're right the 1:14 twist of the Tikka probaly will not stabalize the 55 grain TSX or 60 grain Partition.
I thought the 22 250 1 in 14" twist was do to the higher velocities it generates. With a 60 grain bullet you can generate 3500-3600 fps with a 22 250 vs. 2900-3100 with a 223. The faster the bullet leaves the muzzle, the faster the spin.
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Old November 14, 2012, 08:20 PM   #32
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I've shot the 63 gr Sierra SMP in my 220 Swift with great accuracy. It was a very mild load that the puny 22-250 should be able to duplicate. The Partition is about the same size and shape as that Sierra bullet and I'd be quite surprised if the 22-250 wouldn't stabilize it. I've got the Partitions and I've got the 220, but I just can't get around to tinkering with that right now. The Lyman 49th gives load data for the 63 gr Sierra SMP in the 22-250. That load data should be close enough to use for the Partition - working up from a starter load, of course. It's certainly worth a try.
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Old November 15, 2012, 05:59 PM   #33
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I've not shot the .243, but have shot a lot of 6mm Remington; the 243's ballistic twin. The recoil is noticeable and I'd not want to hand one to a sub-teen shooter unless I'd put together some lower powered handloads.

The 223 and the 22-250, otoh, are quite tame and both are very accurate. Cloverleaf accuracy is the norm with my old 788 Rem. in 22-250. Bought it new 45 years ago for less than $100. My 6mms are no slouch accuracy-wise, but neither come close to that 22-250.

My vote goes to the 22-250; especially if you can find one with a fast enough twist to stabilize the heavier 22 cal. bullets. Very satisfying to shoot at both targets and varmits without enough recoil to cause flinching or develop other bad habits. Let the kid develop as a shooter before trying to make him into a big game hunter.

If you manage to find a 788 (in any caliber), you can cut down the wooden stock to fit the kid and later buy a full-size plastic stock to fit him when he's grown. Nearly all of them offer gilt-edged accuracy.
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Old November 15, 2012, 06:07 PM   #34
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If you manage to find a 788 (in any caliber), you can cut down the wooden stock to fit the kid and later buy a full-size plastic stock to fit him when he's grown. Nearly all of them offer gilt-edged accuracy.
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Old November 15, 2012, 06:53 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyota1
I thought the 22 250 1 in 14" twist was do to the higher velocities it generates. With a 60 grain bullet you can generate 3500-3600 fps with a 22 250 vs. 2900-3100 with a 223. The faster the bullet leaves the muzzle, the faster the spin.
You have to try it, to know for sure if the .22-250 will stabilize the 60 grain NPT. The reason the 55 grain TSX probably won't stabilize because it is a longer bullet since copper weighs less than lead. It might actually be larger than the Partition bullet.

The .22-250 was developed as a varmint cartridge and usually that means light jacketed bullets that violently expand. It was never intended to be used for the same things the .223 is used for. The only reason the .223 usually has a faster twist is because of the Military needing heavier bullets in the 5.56X45 so to take full advantage of most factory loads the .223 needs a faster twist.
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Old November 15, 2012, 07:06 PM   #36
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taylorce1, the 223 was originally designed to stabilize a 55 gr bullet. The original military 5.56 was a 55 gr hard ball 1 in 12" twist. The 22 250 was designed to get optimum accuracy with a 55 gr bullet, at least that's the notion I had.
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Old November 15, 2012, 08:27 PM   #37
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Everyone has stated that a 22-250 needs a faster twist. Does any manufacturer make one or do I have to get one custom made. If so any suggestions on where to get one. Sounds like that would be a great gun
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Old November 15, 2012, 09:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyota1
taylorce1, the 223 was originally designed to stabilize a 55 gr bullet. The original military 5.56 was a 55 gr hard ball 1 in 12" twist. The 22 250 was designed to get optimum accuracy with a 55 gr bullet, at least that's the notion I had.
Yes the military quickly went to a 62 grain ball ammunition requiring a faster twist than a 1:12. Who knows for sure what bullet that they intended the .22-250 to be used with it had been wild catted for several years before it was commercialized. It was very popular for pushing sub 50 grain bullets past 4000 fps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crowsing
Everyone has stated that a 22-250 needs a faster twist. Does any manufacturer make one or do I have to get one custom made. If so any suggestions on where to get one. Sounds like that would be a great gun
I don't know if anyone is making a faster twist .22-250 currently. IIRC Savage or Remington maybe both made one a few years back with a 1:8 or 1:9 twist. I don't think it was that popular as without support of factory ammunition for a fast twist barrel there wasn't much of a demand for the rifles. The guys that wanted a fast twist .22-250 were just building what they wanted.
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Old November 15, 2012, 09:41 PM   #39
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Yes the military quickly went to a 62 grain ball ammunition requiring a faster twist than a 1:12. Who knows for sure what bullet that they intended the .22-250 to be used with it had been wild catted for several years before it was commercialized. It was very popular for pushing sub 50 grain bullets past 4000 fps.
Well I believe the military used the 55 gr bullet through the Vietnam war, and I believe up to 1984. There was less use for longer range shooting like there is in desert warfare. I believe that is when a heaver bullet and faster twist was put in place.
As for the 22 250, I now recollect the 50 gr was the original bullet weight as it was for the swift. It was the 4000 fps barrier, and that's the reason for the slower 1 in 14" twist.
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Old November 16, 2012, 09:35 AM   #40
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I loved my .22-250 and while I found the 60 grain Hornady bullets didn't shoot especially well in my Remington (1 1/2 minute groups), they didn't keyhole. The 60 grain Nosler Partitions are a bit shorter and may be fine.
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Old November 16, 2012, 10:12 AM   #41
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The 5.56x45 was adopted by the US in 1963 using a 55 grain bullet and by NATO in the late 70's using the 62 grain. I don't know exactly when the 55 grain bullet was phased out of our military but the 1:12 twist barrel wouldn't shoot the 62 grain NATO bullet so barrels had to be changed out on all the M16's in the inventory. However it is the longest cartridge in service by our military and that the 55 grain load didn't last very long is relative to the longevity of the cartridge considering it is going into its 50th year of service.

Again because of the change of the military going to faster twist barrels that made the commercial .223 rifles to start using a faster twist barrels as well. While technically not exactly the same cartridge they are close enough most people don't have a problem running the 5.56 through .223 bolt action rifles. A 1:9 or 1:8 twist of most bolt action rifles allow for a larger selection of bullets to be used that the average .22-250 can't.
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Old November 16, 2012, 10:25 AM   #42
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With the excellent 60gr bullets available today the 22-250 with a suitable twist is a fine deer cartridge out to 250 yards or so.
I'd go with the .243 for the stated purpose. The muzzle blast is what actually seems to bother kids, rather than the recoil. With proper hearing protection the boy will probably get a kick out of the kick.
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Old November 16, 2012, 10:48 AM   #43
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I just purchased a new Savage Stevens 22-250 and it has a 1 in 12 twist. It shoots 55g very nice and I plan on shooting some Federal Fusion 64g at a whitetail sometime this season.
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Old November 16, 2012, 04:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
I loved my .22-250 and while I found the 60 grain Hornady bullets didn't shoot especially well in my Remington (1 1/2 minute groups), they didn't keyhole. The 60 grain Nosler Partitions are a bit shorter and may be fine.
That's not a bad group at all if you are gonna shoot a deer. That would even be ok for woodchucks out past 200 yards.
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Old November 16, 2012, 11:42 PM   #45
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Hey, look, guys, the subject is recoil and an 8-year-old kid. Noise is a health factor, also--which is why I'd disapprove of the use of a muzzle brake for a youngun's hunting gun.

I thoroughly enjoy my .243 (a couple of dozen tagged bucks) and have done a bunch of shooting with the Swift and the .22-250. But for what's wanted for the youngun, modern bullet development has made the .223 a decent deer-killer--and it's history is irrelevant to this thread.

An added benefit, of course, as we've all commented many times, is the relatively low cost for practice as compared to the factory ammo of other cartridges.
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Old November 17, 2012, 02:42 AM   #46
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Hey, look, guys, the subject is recoil and an 8-year-old kid. Noise is a health factor, also--which is why I'd disapprove of the use of a muzzle brake for a youngun's hunting gun.
The noise factor is true not only for 8 year olds, but for anybody. That's one reason I avoid excessive muzzle blast. I grew up in the 60's and 70's when hearing protection was at best an option, or not even thought of. Anything from cherry bombs, muzzle blast, to Top fuel dragsters (and loud music) has diminished my hearing to 2/3 of my original hearing, and I can't get it back without hearing aids, which I have opted out from so far. My advise is to wear protection religiously at the range, and avoid muzzle breaks or guns with loud muzzle blast at all costs. I prefer 24" barrels over 20" for this reason. I wanna protect what I have left.
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Old November 18, 2012, 10:46 AM   #47
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I got into the .223 Rem late in life, after many years with the .22-250 Rem, which served me well, but I had the chance to pick up a used Tikka 595 for $300 and bit on it. It was one of the best gun buying decisions I ever made.

The .223 Rem cartridge has never failed to impress me with it's lack of noise, recoil, and barrel heating. It will shoot 10 shot strings at the range, hardly heating the barrel at all. It's extremely accurate and tolerates many different gunpowders, bullets, and loads with high consistency.

Although I'd shoot a deer with it, using Nosler Partitions, I'd hesitate recommending it for a youngster without considerable shooting experience. The youngster could gain that experience by successfully shooting the .223 for several outings, then go on a carefully supervised hunt, hopefully for smaller game than deer. If that hunt is successful, deer could be next.

I've been on hunts where someone has wounded a deer and ended up tracking and sometimes finding it and dispatching it. It's probably not the thing to have happen on a kid's first deer hunting experience.
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Old November 18, 2012, 01:11 PM   #48
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The most common Elk cartridge is the 30-06.
If that is just right for Elk, then the .223 is over powered for the biggest mule buck.

The reality is that a boy's rifle is less than 5 pounds and a man's rifle is less than 10 pounds. We all carry all the rifle we can..... and then justify it later.
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Old November 18, 2012, 11:26 PM   #49
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Old November 21, 2012, 08:40 AM   #50
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I vote .243. I believe it to be a more versitile round and not too hard on the shoulder
I personally am just as accurate with my .243 as.my..223. My wife hunts with the .243 and she is a baby when it comes to recoil
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