The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 16, 2012, 08:21 PM   #1
HankC1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2005
Posts: 311
Is C&R firearm action a C&R?

I had old Mauser receivers received as C&Rs in the past. Recently, a dealer said C&R only applies to complete firearm, not the action or receiver only and insisted shipping to FFL only. Is this correct? The old Mauser receivers I bought as C&Rs are built with new stocks and barrels and become modern firearms. Do I need to do anything in my C&R log while keeping them? I suppose they cannot be transferred as C&Rs anymore if one day I want to sell them.

Last edited by HankC1; November 17, 2012 at 11:28 PM.
HankC1 is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 09:49 PM   #2
LarryNTX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2010
Location: a little north of Dallas
Posts: 119
The dealer is right. This might help.
Quote:
Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?

The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.

It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curi...#modifications
ATF took part of a ruling about importation and combined it with their definition of a C&R to come up with a ruling that receivers are not considered C&R.
How do you log them? Doggone if I know, you're sort of in a Catch 22 on this.
__________________
Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.
LarryNTX is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 09:56 PM   #3
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 18,670
The dealer is correct; I don't think BATFE spends a lot of time worrying about it, but their official position is that people collect guns, not receivers.

The new barrels and stocks raise a question. If the barrels and stocks are sporter type, then the nature of the guns has changed, and they ceased to be C&R when the new parts were put on . But if the new parts are identical to the old military parts, then the nature of the guns has not changed, only parts have been replaced and they are still C&R. (Or at least that is the way I understand it.)

The rulings in that area are confusing, and I really can't blame the seller in this case for exercising caution and wanting to ship to a licensed dealer.

The question at this point is that if the OP had receivers shipped to him under his C&R license, the shipper has made an error. So what to do about it? I don't know. It might be OK just to log the receivers as if they were C&R rifles and let it go at that, but maybe a call to BATFE is in order if there is a lot of concern.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old November 16, 2012, 10:39 PM   #4
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 2,779
Ruling seems pretty clear, to me:


Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?
The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.

It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item.
tobnpr is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07606 seconds with 9 queries