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Old July 27, 2015, 04:46 PM   #1
ldlfh7
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Hardcast for 44 handi-rifle

First of all hello to TFL.
My question is should I have any reason not to use plain ol 240 gr LSWC from a H&R Handi-Rifle on deer under 100 yards (they do group well for me).
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Old July 27, 2015, 05:29 PM   #2
Goatwhiskers
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First, if they're accurate, shoot 'em! Second, forget the notion of "hard cast." That's a term invented by mail order suppliers, hard ones get less damage in shipping. More bores are leaded by too hard than too soft. Fit is everything. Slug your bore and use cast bullets sized .001-.002 over groove size. Handi bores tend to run around .430-.431 rather than the .429 commonly found in handguns. GW
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Old July 28, 2015, 02:50 PM   #3
Paul B.
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I cast my own bullets for handguns, usually from cleaned clip on wheel weights. Hardness level varies a bit but I'd say 11 on the BHN scale is about normal. My first .44 Mag. loads were shot from a 7.5" Ruger New Model .44 Magnum I'm guessing my loads were a bit up there as at the time Elmer Keith's pet load was pretty stout. (22.0 gr. of H2400. I now use 20.0 gr. of A2400) I shot a mice mule deer at roughly 60 yards through the shoulder. The bullet punched through the shoulder blade, took out a lung and exited just behind the off shoulder. The deer took a jump and collapsed. That was way back in 1973 BTW. I still use that bullet and the load for Alliant's version of 2400 to this day.
The advice to have the bullets .002" larger than groove diameter is a very good one to heed.
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Old July 28, 2015, 06:41 PM   #4
mxsailor803
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Use it. If your rifle is accurate, that's all that matters. A 240gr .44mag will kill a deer without a issue from a clean shot.
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Old July 29, 2015, 11:16 AM   #5
samsmix
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MXsailor has the right idea!

Also, "hard cast" in the other than mail order sense, also can mean "bullet meant not to deform so it punches as deep as possible, even if it means sacrificing tissue disruption". Deer are not in the heavy bone and muscle category, and a little tissue disruption won't hurt. I cannot think of any .44 mag/240gr bullet that won't do the trick if it's placed right.
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Old July 29, 2015, 01:58 PM   #6
T. O'Heir
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"...a term invented by mail order..." And Bambi won't care how hard the bullet that killed him was.
"...bores are leaded by..." Trying to drive a cast bullet too fast. Use cast bullet data and you'll be fine.
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Old July 30, 2015, 10:39 AM   #7
Will-j
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I-7:

What caliber are you shooting? .44 Mag? In my H&R .444 Marlin barrel I have pushed a few 22 Brinell Hardness 245gr Hard cast bullets from an old supply I got in the '90s from Yellowstone Casting in Billings Mont. [I think they're out of business now] to 2400 FPS avg. over my Oehler 35P with a compressed load of IMR 4198. Accuracy was so-so at 1-1/2 to1-3/4 @ 75yds with the H&R, and 2330+/- out of my .444 Marlin 22" with a lightly reduced load, and 5 fairly good-sized deer never knew what hit 'em. Massive internal damage.

From my 7-1/2" SBH and Redhawk with .44 Spl. cases at 1483FPS avg.with a heavy dose of Blue Dot and at 1445 FPS over a heavy dose of 2400 they were just as accurate and effective, Less damage though. No leading in either barrel. One thing I do with the plain based bullets is insert a plug/wafer cut from a plastic tray over the powder first. The thin black and yellow ones found in grocery stores for meat and veggies are best, but a thin cardboard wafer works well also. They keep the flame front from the bullet's base so the heat doesn't splatter the lead, and for some reason, the plastic plugs are found downrange undamaged. I've picked some up and used them again.

Cast Performance says their bullets are good to 2700 FPS without leading, and I've run their 275gr FNGCs to 2275 avg. in both the Marlin and H&R with no leading.

If you are using a softer BH alloy, say--up to 12-15. you shouldn't get any leading up to about 1600+/- depending on your barrel. Just gotta try 'em and see what happens. I hope I haven't confused you with any of this.

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Old July 30, 2015, 12:31 PM   #8
ldlfh7
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I am shooting 44 mag.
I have 240 gr swc at 18 BNH. I have loaded them up to 24.5 grains of IMR-4227 and saw no leading in the barrel. I was less worried about leading and more concerned with terminal performance of a SWC that will not expand.
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Old July 30, 2015, 12:50 PM   #9
Doyle
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You've got to remember with a bullet that wide (.430), you are already starting out with a permanent wound channel that is pretty close to what you'd get with a smaller high-speed bullet that mushrooms. Even if it doesn't expand, it's doing its job.
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Old July 30, 2015, 01:00 PM   #10
TimSr
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Quote:
I was less worried about leading and more concerned with terminal performance of a SWC that will not expand.

I'm speaking from a 44 Mag revolver experience, and used 240gr SWC (18BRN) for deer until I discovered the Hornady XTP. They both usually leave an exit hole, but the XTP does a lot more damage in between entry and exit. I get a little bit better accurracy from these bullets than SWC in my pistol, though both are quite adequate in that dept. I'd probably look at the the 300gr XTP for a rifle though. Nothing wrong with your 240gr SWC if they go where you want them to, but I'm always looking at what seems to stop them faster.
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Old August 2, 2015, 01:23 PM   #11
samsmix
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Not to beat a dead horse, but a better question might be "Is there a .44 mag/240gr that WON'T do the job under these conditions?"

My personal preference in my 7.5" SBH would be a hollowpoint, but the SWC wouldn't scare me with proper placement, especially out of a rifle with its higher speed and greater accuracy.
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