The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 10, 2012, 05:41 PM   #1
ChaseReynolds
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2012
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Posts: 186
Piston Upper AR

Looking to build my first AR, I am not sure if I can do a piston driven upper but I hear piston driven is the way to go. I want my AR to be 7.62. If anyone has any advice or has done this already please fill me in. Thanks
ChaseReynolds is offline  
Old November 10, 2012, 07:07 PM   #2
Sweet Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2011
Posts: 517
PISTONS

Pistons are definitely being proving. I'm not sure how reliable the x39 is in the AR platform, but this is an eye opener with the 5.56 piston.
-SS-
Sweet Shooter is offline  
Old November 10, 2012, 07:10 PM   #3
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,658
You want 7.62x39 or 51?
chris in va is offline  
Old November 10, 2012, 07:46 PM   #4
Quentin2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 1,641
Quote:
...I hear piston driven is the way to go...
Who do you hear that from? Don't believe everything you hear!
Quentin2 is offline  
Old November 10, 2012, 09:29 PM   #5
RamItOne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2011
Posts: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseReynolds
I hear piston driven is the way to go
Yeah the old way sucks, thats why we lost Vietnam.

Either system works very well. There is another thread here about cleaning or not cleaning the gas tube. I'm in the "never camp", 1,000s of the best crap coming out of the eastern block and no issues.

Now your BCG stays cool to the touch with a piston system, yeah cool but that wouldn't sway me either way.

Good luck
__________________
M&P- the other dark meat

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...rtant/DJyvnHz0
RamItOne is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 12:09 AM   #6
ChaseReynolds
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2012
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Posts: 186
Well, alot of the shooting magazines are saying that piston driven is the future. I want to shoot 7.62x51. I think that is what the SCAR 17 shoots. I just want the fire power without the SCAR premium.
ChaseReynolds is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 03:35 AM   #7
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,325
Quote:
Well, alot of the shooting magazines are saying that piston driven is the future.
That may be true, but many people - including myself - prefer a direct gas system for an AR platform.
Quote:
I want to shoot 7.62x51. I think that is what the SCAR 17 shoots. I just want the fire power without the SCAR premium.
When you say you want to build your first AR, do you meant its going to be the first AR you own, or just the first AR you build yourself? If it's your first AR, I say go with 5.56; in my opinion, the main reason to go with 7.62 is if you want to hunt larger animals with it, and/or you're planning to shoot past 300 meters on a regular basis. At ranges less than 300 meters against two-legged and smaller four-legged animals I much prefer the 5.56.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 07:14 AM   #8
bedlamite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 10, 2000
Location: WI
Posts: 1,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseReynolds
Well, alot of the shooting magazines are saying that piston driven is the future.
Their job is to sell ad space in next months rag.
__________________
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
bedlamite is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 07:44 AM   #9
RT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,191
You know that you can't build a 7.62x51 using an AR-15 lower, right.
RT is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 11:37 AM   #10
Sweet Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2011
Posts: 517
Piston Clean

Guy at the range showed me his piston-driven AR interior after ~500 rounds the oil in there was still clean. The bolt back was immaculate. The only mess was where the exhaust comes out under the hand guard and blowing on the scope lens.

He also said he'd taking it back out to experiment and going back to DI he noticed a definite decline in inaccuracy. So he put it back in. That is the other way around to what I would expect.
-SS-
Sweet Shooter is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 12:03 PM   #11
Eghad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,231
Piston Rifles are not new. They have been around for years. The only problem I have with buying piston in an AR15 is that the systems are proprietary. If something breaks in the piston system you are going to be down till you get the part in. Plus there is no clear cut advantage for it over owning a DI AR15. You can build an AR10 in 7.62 but the ammo costs are higher.
__________________
Have a nice day at the range

NRA Life Member
Eghad is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 12:09 PM   #12
Eghad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,231
"Yeah the old way sucks, thats why we lost Vietnam."

don't think so.

The reasons the AR16 didn't work in Vietnam were self inflicted. Having said that the AR style rifle has worked all of that out and it is a reliable system now. I started out in 1975 with the M16A1then went to the M16A2. Never had any reliability issues with any of them I was issued. I was still shooting Expert when I retired in 2004.
__________________
Have a nice day at the range

NRA Life Member
Eghad is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 12:15 PM   #13
TMD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 558
Quote:
Piston Rifles are not new. They have been around for years. The only problem I have with buying piston in an AR15 is that the systems are proprietary. If something breaks in the piston system you are going to be down till you get the part in. Plus there is no clear cut advantage for it over owning a DI AR15. You can build an AR10 in 7.62 but the ammo costs are higher.
This should be your biggest concern if your building one. If you get a kit from some fly-by-night company and they go under your screwed if you ever need a part.

Now back to the piston v. DI debate. I have 7 AR's and only one is a piston model. Its an Adcor B.E.A.R.
Pro's: Very nice rifle, shoots great, bolt seem's to never get dirty.
Con's: A little bit heavier, louder, cleaning under the handguard is a pain, expensive.
TMD is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 01:19 PM   #14
Theohazard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2012
Location: Western WA
Posts: 2,325
Quote:
He also said he'd taking it back out to experiment and going back to DI he noticed a definite decline in inaccuracy. So he put it back in. That is the other way around to what I would expect.
There are so many other factors that can affect accuracy besides just which gas system the rifle uses. There are plenty of piston rifles that are more accurate than many DI rifles; however, that's in spite of - not because of - the gas system.

If you managed to make two rifles that were identical in every way possible, except one had a piston and one was DI, the DI would be more accurate. The accuracy gap wouldn't be very large, and as gas systems improve that gap shrinks even more, but it's still there.
__________________
0331: "Accuracy by volume."
Theohazard is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 05:21 PM   #15
Sweet Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 17, 2011
Posts: 517
Quote:
Theohazard
There are so many other factors that can affect accuracy besides just which gas system the rifle uses. There are plenty of piston rifles that are more accurate than many DI rifles; however, that's in spite of - not because of - the gas system.
I'm talking about the same rifle—changing between the two systems. I never said that generally one system was better than the other, I'm giving an example where the piston driven system was.
Very aware of what can and can't effect a rifle's accuracy in general terms.
-SS-
Sweet Shooter is offline  
Old November 11, 2012, 07:58 PM   #16
Eghad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,231
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_201102/#/20

DI had an edge in the accuracy department. When you add more moving parts to something it will probably have an effect of the harmonics as the article suggests. A gas Piston gun can be tuned as the article suggests. However, this won't be free and will add to the cost of the rifle.
__________________
Have a nice day at the range

NRA Life Member
Eghad is offline  
Old November 12, 2012, 08:49 AM   #17
Crow Hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2012
Posts: 1,078
One of the advantages of the AR system is that the lower is the "gun".

If you get a piston upper, and you later can't get parts or decide you don't like it, you can always switch to a DGI by just swapping uppers.

That being said, the pistons will always be more expensive than the DGI for a small reduction in cleaning time. I guess it depends on how valueable your personal time is.

Now if you are planning on coming up out of the water like a SEAL and shooting immediately or going with really short barrels and firing full auto, then a piston has some advantages over DGI in those situations.
__________________
I am no longer participating in gun forums.

Good luck.
Crow Hunter is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10143 seconds with 9 queries