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Old November 10, 2012, 12:24 AM   #1
Ralph G. Briscoe
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Bad advice

I've noticed that since I began reading gun and outdoor magazines (c. 1958) the quality of writing has steadily declined. I generally ignore it, but while perusing the magazine rack at the local Kroger's this evening I saw such a profound example of dangerous stupidity I had to mention it. The latest issue of Concealed Carry magazine contains an article by one Kevin R. Davis entitled "Revolvers to the Rescue." His mention of the importance of close-range practice includes a picture of Kevin R. at the range shooting at a silhouette target with a snubby at a range of about 5 feet one-handed with his arm fully extended to eye level...aiming. It violates common sense, as well as the advice of experts, as this approach offers your assailant the best possible chance of disarming you, deflecting your aim, or grabbing the revolver to lock up the cylinder. 5 feet is point-shooting range, and time to keep your weapon close to your body. I hope this guy's bad example doesn't get anybody killed.
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Old November 10, 2012, 01:18 AM   #2
GeeJ
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Ideally, the best position to shoot from the one that you are most effective with; however, it's always good to practice strong and weak shooting, as well as any other possible position that you may instantly find yourself when needing to react. If that was their intention then I hope that they would make that clarification, otherwise, I don't know....
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Old November 10, 2012, 01:34 AM   #3
youngunz4life
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yeah you shouldn't have to aim from that distance at any rate andor regardless of how one looks at it(at least that is how I was trained).
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:09 AM   #4
tango1niner
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I agree with Ralph, keep the firearm tucked in close to your body.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:16 AM   #5
allaroundhunter
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At < 5 ft, fire from retention, and pray that it doesn't turn into a hand-to-hand fight. If it does, keep control of your weapon, and know how to use your hands and a knife better than the other guy.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:17 AM   #6
Sport45
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People read those things?
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:18 AM   #7
youngunz4life
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balance is as important if it comes to that too
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:41 AM   #8
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I have not seen the picture. Is is possible that the angle of the shot skewed the perspective? What exactly was he doing? Was he just standing there or was he dynamically moving off the "X"?

As has been mentioned before; people who carry guns tend to get the hammer syndrome - Every problem is a nail. Not all situations call for a gun. Usually at 0-5 feet, you do not have time to go to your gun, you need to create distance. I have been advocating for years that the gun is only part of your system, you need hand to hand skills.

Quote:
Ralph, you started reading this mag in 1958? My dad was born in 1955.

Wow.

Just thought to toss that out there.
And I was born in 1961, so?
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Old November 10, 2012, 09:29 AM   #9
MLeake
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Nanuk,

Makes us feel kind of like Peter Ustinov in Logan's Run, no?

"Renew! Renew!"

Then again, I was '68 vintage, so I am probably only mid-generation older than p loader.

Back on topic, for the most part, I take articles in gun mags with a great grain of salt. I also advocate for basic hand to hand skills training.
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Old November 10, 2012, 10:12 AM   #10
Denezin
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my arm is about 18-22 inches so thats almost half. i def would not extend past a retention/ hipfire draw. your just beggin to get your gun grabbed at that short of distance.
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Old November 10, 2012, 10:48 AM   #11
g.willikers
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It isn't just the gun magazines that show the decline of journalism.
It used to be that people who actually knew the subject wrote about it.
Now, it seems it's more people who write for a living pretending to be the experts that they aren't.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:30 PM   #12
Newton24b
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what you mean the person whos whole experience with firearms has been plinking and playing call of duty isnt qualified to write a how to manual for firearms use?
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Old November 12, 2012, 11:58 PM   #13
drail
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I can assure you that photo was staged like that only so they could get the shooter and the target all in the same photo. Photo shoots have almost nothing to do with reality. But you are correct, all of the gun magazines are written at about a 4th grade level today (as are most newspapers). Their only purpose is to sell advertising.
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Old November 13, 2012, 10:58 AM   #14
Ronbert
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Paper targets don't shoot back. And they don't grapple with you.
Hard to remember those things sometimes.
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Old November 13, 2012, 11:18 AM   #15
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I wouldn’t base any conclusions on a picture. If you can use your sights at 5ft, 10ft, 2ft then use your sights. Unless you practice "point shooting" or any shooting you won't hit anything, especially under stress.
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Old November 13, 2012, 12:40 PM   #16
BlueTrain
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I keep wondering why more people here don't write for gun magazines, since the current writing is held in such low regard. Maybe you all could do better.
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Old November 13, 2012, 01:04 PM   #17
pax
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Some of us do.

Full disclosure: I'm no longer the editor at Concealed Carry Magazine. Stepped down this summer to chase my own dreams. Still on good terms with the publisher and the new editor, and wish them all the best.

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Old November 13, 2012, 01:06 PM   #18
fastbolt
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I wouldn't let a staged/posed photo in a commercial magazine article unduly concern me. Who knows the author's intent, or whether that particular image was even intended to appear in the article with that caption? Mix ups in editing have apparently been known to occur.

Some of you guys seem intent on making me feel old. I was born in the early 50's ...

While magazines are interesting and entertaining, it's not like they're remotely able to take the place of a qualified live instructor/trainer.

Then again, when I was a teenager I bought a slew of the Bruce Tegner books 2-3 years before I actually started formal martial arts training. Not quite the same thing.

I wish I'd all of those books in my collection, though. I think I only have a couple of them remaining.
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Old November 13, 2012, 06:04 PM   #19
Newton24b
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they arent interested in taking on writers who arent already in the 'industry". so perhaps once you become the only gunsmith with a 3 year waiting list, win the ipsc crap/ 3 gun thing 4 years running with a perfect score each time, then try to get a writing gig.
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Old November 13, 2012, 06:10 PM   #20
pax
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Hmmm, I just noticed this thread has become more generalized, and isn't about tactics or training any more. Hold on -- I'm going to move it over to GenDisc.

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Old November 14, 2012, 09:02 PM   #21
Edward429451
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I'm the gun guy in our circle of friends and another friend is the MA guy, a brown belt or low level black belt? I disremember exactly. Our discussion turned to dis-arming one day and he was all about showing off to all of us as to how fast he could dis-arm someone, Ed...would you mind? (HA!) Sure.

I told him he couldn't disarm me, but he was insistent so I unloaded, triple checked the chamber, and reholstered. He says go ahead and draw on me. So I drew to a locked retention position against my hip and started creating distance while he just stood there.

He says, well you didn't do it right. I said was I supposed to hand it to you?
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Old November 15, 2012, 12:17 AM   #22
MLeake
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Ed, on the bright side, you created distance and beat him, mentally.

On the not bright side (for him) he should have charged and been all over you; his technique was poor.
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Old November 15, 2012, 12:46 AM   #23
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Quote:
He says, well you didn't do it right...
Funny. Well yeah. That's it. Confuse and confound, do the unexpected.

Keep 'em off-balance.
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Old November 15, 2012, 01:14 AM   #24
MLeake
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Ed, I would have tried to get as close as possible before you drew. When you reached, I would have tried to jam your gun hand and gun into your holster with the hand on your gun side, and hit you in the face with the other hand. I might have thrown a knee at your groin or gut, too.

If you had managed to clear leather, I would have used body weight and pivoting moment / torque to turn the muzzle toward you. I would have attacked your eyes and or throat with the free hand.

You get the idea. Swarm, distract, and unbalance.

Again, your friend used poor technique, while you used sound technique.
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Old November 15, 2012, 10:53 AM   #25
Edward429451
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I don't want to try this demo with MLeake. He doesn't do it right.

I used to this drill from Rick Miller who wrote (writes?) for G&A where you're like 3 ft from the target and draw and fire three or so rounds into the target while falling onto my back. Might work against the swarm attack. In practice, you have to keep your weak hand way back but for real one would strike them in the face with the weak hand as you begin to fall. My back wont take these sorts of drills anymore.
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