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Old November 4, 2012, 01:44 PM   #1
Fox84
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New Stag Arms ?

Wen't to the range today to fire my new M3+. Near round 70 I had a FTE leaving the PMC brass casing in the barrel. The casing was clean easly pushed out with a cleaning rod. Half of the rim of the casing was gone. This is 223 ammo in a 5.56. Would this be a ammo problem or a gun issue. This FTE ended the day as I didn't carry a rod with me to the range. Won't happen again.
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Old November 4, 2012, 02:36 PM   #2
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Could be a tight chamber or gunked up or non-chrome lined. Usually this happens with steel case not brass. I'd clean the chamber real well and try again. At least you know the extractor is doing the job.

I'd look for that chunk of brass, it could jam the trigger.
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Old November 4, 2012, 04:09 PM   #3
Fox84
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Is this a issue shooting 223 in a 5.56 chamber?
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Old November 4, 2012, 04:24 PM   #4
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Are you a re-loader at all Fox84? The reason I ask is because then you might have the tools and knowledge needed to determine how much the PMC fired case is stretching.
It's possible that your PMC cartridges are on the short side of specification, while your chamber is on the long side of specification... not necessarily excessive headspace... just a combination of extremes. These conditions could, I say could, result in a case head separation.
Exceedingly stretched cases, indicating "incipient case head separation" would be a clue.
Worst case scenario is that your new gun chamber, barrel extension or incorrectly machined bolt is creating a out of spec headspace condition. A gunsmith can easily check this for you, or you can return the gun to Stag for inspection.

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Old November 4, 2012, 05:20 PM   #5
Fox84
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I'll shoot a bunch more before I ship it back. 1 in 70 aint bad for a range gun. Never had this issue with my AK's
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Old November 4, 2012, 05:38 PM   #6
Creeper
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Quote:
Near round 70 I had a FTE leaving the PMC brass casing in the barrel.
Quote:
1 in 70 aint bad for a range gun.
Ah... yeah, yeah it is. It's dangerous and you or worse, someone near you, could get hurt.
Quote:
I'll shoot a bunch more before I ship it back.
Unless it's ammo related, that's not going to fix the problem. But hey, I'm not your mom... so if you want to run with scissors, go ahead.

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Old November 4, 2012, 05:48 PM   #7
Fox84
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Thanks. I'll just send it back.
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Old November 4, 2012, 06:01 PM   #8
Creeper
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You know what Fox... it's possible that I've misunderstood what you've stated.
Quote:
Near round 70 I had a FTE leaving the PMC brass casing in the barrel. The casing was clean easily pushed out with a cleaning rod. Half of the rim of the casing was gone.
When you say "half the rim of the casing was gone"... are you saying the case head was separated and the case body remained in the chamber... or that a portion of the rim only was missing and the case head was more or less in tact... save for the missing portion of rim?

If it's the latter, and I've misunderstood your statement, then I apologize. That might very well be an entirely different issue... and perhaps closer to Quentin2 comments regarding cleanliness. It may still be a chamber or other issue and still may require returning the gun to Stag, but may be less of a safety concern than I initially imagined.

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Old November 4, 2012, 06:29 PM   #9
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It does sound like this is a case head separation. If so, then sending it back to Stag won't solve anything. That's an ammo issue and it does happen.

The piece of brass left in the chamber is going to prevent the next round from chambering at all, and instead just jam up the whole system - and you will not be able to fire that round, so while it's a pain it is not a dangerous situation.
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Old November 4, 2012, 08:04 PM   #10
Ben Towe
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I took it as the extractor ripped the rim off of the stuck case. As it happened only once it could have been an out of spec case. If it is case head separation then it could be dangerous and needs to be checked with gauges or simply sent back.
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Old November 4, 2012, 08:23 PM   #11
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Yeah it just sounds like a stuck case and the extractor ripped of part of the rim. If so I wouldn't send it back to Stag yet, it's not a dangerous situation.
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Old November 5, 2012, 12:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Is this a issue shooting 223 in a 5.56 chamber?
No. Shooting .223 in a 5.56 chamber will not give you any problems at all (except *maybe* a slight decrease in accuracy)
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Old November 5, 2012, 05:54 AM   #13
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I'ts the edge of the rim of the case that is gone. The other side seems to have just a slight burr. The case was not stuck and was clean. It just wouldn't fall out with gravity and a shake. I'll call Stag today and see what they say. Thanks everyone for the help!

Just for my info, is this issue called a "stovepipe"?
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Old November 5, 2012, 04:57 PM   #14
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Stag told me to clean chamber with a utg 223 polishing brush on a drill. Any more problems and they will replace barrel.
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Old November 9, 2012, 08:05 PM   #15
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No this is not a stovepipe. A stovepipe is when the ejected case is not thrown with enough force, and it gets caught by the closing bolt. You will see the open end of the case sticking out the side of the ejection port and that case prevents the bolt from fully closing.

Check the other cases you fired for heavy marks from the extractor, as the gun may be slightly overgassed. That is, the bolt was trying to pull the casing out before the pressure in the case goes down enough to allow the case to unstick itself from the chamber wall.

You aren't running a suppressor are you?
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:21 AM   #16
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No suppressor. I cleaned and polished with the chamber brush. I will shoot again Vets Day.
Thanks for the info
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Old November 11, 2012, 02:23 PM   #17
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If it's brand new and this is the first time that you fired it. It may just need a breaking in period. When my Stag Model 3 was brand new I had some problems with it not extracting the fired case. After about 500 rounds I put a extractor upgrade kit and a "H" buffer into it and that fixed the problem, been able to run anything that I choose since. By putting the heavier buffer in it's my belief that it slows the bolt down just enough that the extractor can do it's job better.
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Old November 13, 2012, 06:13 AM   #18
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Gun fired perfectly at the range today. I guess the chamber brush and the drill did the trick.
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