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Old November 27, 2012, 02:10 PM   #26
klyph3
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And if you have a negligent discharge while using your solvent trap, you can easily have your gun rights removed, since you will be a felon under the law.
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Old November 27, 2012, 03:20 PM   #27
tgreening
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Space coast: Can you explain to me how this solvent trap works? I mean I look at it and I know what "I" think, but I haven't found yet what it's claimed function is supposed to be.
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Old November 27, 2012, 03:25 PM   #28
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And yes, the rules are rather ridiculous, from our perspective, but if you are a regulatory agency they make great sense. They are so incredibly sweeping as to be effectively all encompassing when it comes to what fits into the definition of what constitutes a silencer or silencer parts. In essence if you have a two liter bottle of coke, a box of tissue, and a roll of duct tape in the same location as a firearm the BATF could make a case that you had intent to make a silencer. Pretty dang stupid, but that still wouldn't prevent you from having to defend yourself in court.
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Old November 27, 2012, 03:50 PM   #29
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It's real simple, the solvent trap catches fluid and dirt pushed out of the barrel during the process of cleaning, using an oil filter as the catch basin. Hence the "solvent trap"
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Old November 27, 2012, 04:56 PM   #30
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It's real simple, the solvent trap catches fluid and dirt pushed out of the barrel during the process of cleaning, using an oil filter as the catch basin. Hence the "solvent trap"
Ah. Rigggght.... (in my best Dr. Evil voice)
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Old November 27, 2012, 06:37 PM   #31
Tom Servo
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And if you have a negligent discharge while using your solvent trap, you can easily have your gun rights removed, since you will be a felon under the law.
Care to elaborate?
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Old November 28, 2012, 12:19 AM   #32
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I'm afraid you do have to worry about it, whether you own an actual firearm or not.

The short version is the BATF gets to determine what constitutes a silencer, and the way the way it's written now just about anything can be crammed into that category.
....

Removed from the barrel it was a piece of PVC pipe, two rubber o-rings, two delrin disks that pressed around the barrel, and a piece of furnace filter foam. Keep in mind the barrel itself was drilled full of holes and was itself an integral part of this system and when everything else was removed they were just a handful of plastic and rubber. The purpose of this stuff was to absorb the CO2 cloud when CO2 was the dominant power source before compressed air took off.
There's a WORLD of difference in making muzzle attachments (be it for airguns or firearms) and merely owning an oil filter, a two liter bottle or a lawnmower muffler.
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In essence if you have a two liter bottle of coke, a box of tissue, and a roll of duct tape in the same location as a firearm the BATF could make a case that you had intent to make a silencer.
That's stretching, but even if we accept that as fact, there's a simple solution. Don't save 2 liter bottles and store them along with duct tape with your firearms. Really, all you need to avoid is actually attaching them to a firearm.
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And if you have a negligent discharge while using your solvent trap, you can easily have your gun rights removed, since you will be a felon under the law.
NOW we're getting closer to reality.

YES. If you put an attachment on your gun that can reduce the noise of the discharge, if you buy an attachment for your gun that is, in every respect minus a hole on the front, a silencer and then attach it to your gun and shoot a hole in it so it can actually be used as a silencer, then you are definitely in a lot of trouble if you get caught.

It bears repeating that this is WORLDS different than merely owning an oil filter.
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Old November 28, 2012, 12:56 AM   #33
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Care to elaborate?
Sure. You bring your firearm with threaded barrel and solvent trap to your favorite shooting spot. After firing corrosive ammo you like to immediately flush the bore. In your undue haste (it's rusting!) You negligently discharge a round through the filter. Dang, better get this gun home to flush the bore in an environmentally conscious manner. Not wanting to get solvent in your range bag, you toss the filter in the back of your truck and start driving home. Your tail light burns out and a local peace officer pulls you over. As he approaches your vehicle, he notes the NRA lifetime membership bumpersticker and happens to also notice the oil filter with an outward hole dead center. He knows exactly how that happened (he's seen the YouTube video). This gives him probable cause to search your vehicle upon which he discovers a firearm with a threaded barrel and an adapter to attach it to the oil filter. But officer, it was an accident you see... Yeah yeah, tell it to the judge. You tell it to the judge, but he is even less understanding than the officer. He informs you that he feels very strongly that evading taxes is not something he tolerates and to send a strong message to the community, he hands down a sentence of 10 years and 10,000 dollars. This happens to be only one tenth the cost that the law firm you hired charged for your defense. Your wife, now homeless, penniless and unable to support herself, meets a man named Hank who drives truck and promises to support her. In prison, your cellmate also happens to be named Hank, you ask if he ever drove truck, but he says no. Ah well, you think, can't have it all I guess. Hank kisses you goodnight and you dream of shooting your guns, which you'll NEVER be allowed to do EVER again.
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:11 AM   #34
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While reasonably plausible, that is a far, FAR cry from being prosecuted for merely owning an oil filter as you claimed when you posted: "According to the letter of the law, they CAN charge you with illegal possession of an NFA item for owning an oil filter."

The person in your intricate scenario is NOT being prosecuted for "owning an oil filter". He is being prosecuted for buying something that's one hole away from being a silencer, attaching it to his gun (requiring threading the barrel and purchasing or making an adapter), and then putting a hole into it, making it fit the legal definition of a silencer in every respect. In other words, he's being prosecuted for owning something that is totally indistinguishable from an illegal silencer (and which therefore IS an illegal silencer), not for merely "owning an oil filter".

To make this happen, the guy in your story had to buy the oil filter, buy the adapter, thread a firearm barrel, attach the adapter to the gun, attach the oil filter to the adapter and then shoot a hole in it. Shooting a hole in the filter might have been an accident, but everything up to that point was essentially impossible to do by accident. In other words, anyone who wants to avoid being prosecuted for this sort of thing can easily manage to do so.

Do I agree with the silencer laws and how they're enforced? No. But let's not be ridiculous about this. People aren't being prosecuted for merely owning oil filters, nor is there any danger of something like that happening.
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:45 AM   #35
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Fair enough, however the ATFs interpretation of "constructive intent" continues to broaden, it's no stretch of the imagination to say that it's only a matter of time.
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:16 PM   #36
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Reasonable and informed people are posting, but unreasonable and uninformed people are reading. I think a dead horse is still being beaten..
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:40 PM   #37
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This stuff is sort of like the idea that any male can be convicted of rape because he is "in possession" of the necessary equipment.

Can anyone provide a real case, name of accused, court date, location or any other information on anyone charged with illegally possessing a firearm silencer because he/she had a soft drink bottle, an oil filter, a couch cushion, a solvent trap, a cotton wad or some other device that could might possibly maybe sort of be used as a maybe sort of could be silencer somewhere in the vicinity of a firearm?

Jim
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Old November 28, 2012, 01:42 PM   #38
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Reasonable and informed people are posting, but unreasonable and uninformed people are reading. I think a dead horse is still being beaten..
Care to elaborate?
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Old November 28, 2012, 03:41 PM   #39
Brian Pfleuger
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Originally Posted by JamesK
Can anyone provide a real case, name of accused, court date, location or any other information on anyone charged with illegally possessing a firearm silencer because he/she had a soft drink bottle, an oil filter, a couch cushion, a solvent trap, a cotton wad or some other device that could might possibly maybe sort of be used as a maybe sort of could be silencer somewhere in the vicinity of a firearm?
See post #24 of this thread.
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