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Old October 22, 2012, 07:13 AM   #1
Beretta686
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Confessions of a Gun Snob

I'm a pretty unabashed gun snob. My gun-safe is full of high $$$ toys as I love my Sig, HK, S&W revolvers, higher-end Springfield 1911, Beretta O/U shotgun, tricked out NFA items, blah, blah, blah. I always considered Glock the cheapest one I had ("cheapness" being only a measure of price, as with Mil/LE price they're $400 NIB).

But recently I've discovered the opposite end of the spectrum.
My mind was originally opened by the 2 10.5 incher AR-15 uppers from Model 1 Sales and FTF Industries (both lower-end AR parts producers) I've had for years which I've shot the hell out of with crappy Wolf ammo and have never had a jam on either one (except with Tula's extra-crappy ammo, but that's a whole other rant), this is despite the supposed legendary unreliability of shorty AR-15 uppers.

But recently my "budget gun" experience has spread to pistols. It started with Taurus. My buddy's Taurus .45 1911 shoots as well as my Springfield for 1/2 the price. Then I shot a bullet-proof 24/7 in 9mm that did as well as my Sig on steel plates. That was quickly followed by a Millennium in .45 which held more rounds but was about the size of my Glock 26. My ego was further damaged by a Charles Daley 1911 which ran everything I fed it.

So I stumbled across an Argentinian FM Hi-Power for $289 at a local gunstore. I love Browning Hi-Powers but they're just so damn expensive, so I decided to get a cheap one. I took it to the range and it shot just as well as any non-customized BHP I've shot.

I also picked up a Norinco 982 12-gauge for just north of $200 loaded with good features and it runs like a champ.

Anyway, my point is not that Taurus, Norinco or Charles Daley is better than higher end guns. Rather it's that you don't have to spend tons of $$$ to get a good, reliable gun, despite what internet commandos tell you.

Yes, I understand YMMV and there's always going to be turds out there produced by Taurus, Charles Daley and lower end manufacturers, but there's also turds from Kimber (I've had two), Sig, Glock and HK. There's nothing quite like watching your $1200 Kimber choke while the guy next to you's $300 Taurus merrily blasts away.

So yes, I am a gun snob who enjoys the finer things in weaponry, much as I enjoy finer wines, cigars and booze. But much as there's good deals in the wine rack for low prices, there's also some amazing deals in the bargain bin at your local gunstore. Just because you like a Cuban Cohiba Siglo VI as I do, doesn't mean you can't enjoy a great $5 cigar, much less knock someone else for enjoying one.
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Old October 22, 2012, 07:24 AM   #2
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AMEN
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Old October 22, 2012, 08:26 AM   #3
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and HALLELUJAH BROTHER !... from a working-class bargain hunter...
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Old October 22, 2012, 09:38 AM   #4
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You've just been taken off of the annual SigSauer Snobbers X-Mas Bash list!

I've got some expensive pistols, but cost doesn't make a pistol, it's quality. Between my friend and myself we have walther P99QA, PPQ, and HK P30, P30 DA trigger is abhorrent, and can't seen any quality difference to warrant HKs price.
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Old October 22, 2012, 10:05 AM   #5
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Thank you for your confession.

I appreciate reading that a "gun snob" can understand that we can't all have the finest of everything. Sure, I would like to have Sigs, HKs, Brownings, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, etc. but I just can't justify spending that kind of money on firearms when Taurii, Ruger, Charles Daly, and one S&W Airweight 38Sp can make me smile as much as they do. I don't have a very high paying job (pretty good for around here) and I am putting two kids through college. I have thought about selling or trading most of my guns off and getting two or three really good ones and I may. Problem is deciding which ones to get rid of and what to get. I like all the ones I have for various reasons and don't know what I would want more, so I guess I will stick with what I have for awhile. I only have one actual duplication of caliber, a Charles Daly HP and a Ruger P95. Wanted a Browning but couldn't shell out $1k. I have two CCW, a S&W 642 and a LCP, both of which I like but have thought of trading for a single stack slim 9mm but I already have two 9mm. I will take my time to think about what I want to trade off if I do, but I don't have to change anything. I am happy with what I have now so maybe I should just let be.
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Old October 22, 2012, 11:36 AM   #6
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To me there is nothing wrong with liking and owning the high priced guns. I myself have managed to obtain a few. In practice I tend to shoot my "bar-guns" much more often and my high dollar guns tend to become safe queens.
What I'm not OK with are the gun snobs that tend to look down at people who shoot the lower priced guns and feel they are too good to use "junk". One of the men I hunt with has a Hi-Point 45 and swears by it. If that's all he can afford while he supports his wife & kids and he's content with it I say more power to him.
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Old October 22, 2012, 12:08 PM   #7
loose_holster_dan
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similarities between taurus and kimber:
feed bullets (sometimes)
shoot bullets (sometimes)
hit the target (sometimes)
look good (sometimes)

difference between taurus and kimber
taurus $$$
kimber $$$$

IMO - you are taking a risk with your money if you buy either. as long as you don't mind this, and thoroughly test prior to taking a risk with your life, go right ahead.
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Old October 22, 2012, 12:25 PM   #8
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I agree with everything you say, I came to the same conclustion a long time ago. I once threw my $1000 Springfield 1911 right down in the dirt during some high speed weapon drills. I took some heat for it at the time, which I soundly rejected, it was empty with no extra mags, thus completely useless.

Now I don't even care about brand names, I focus strictly on purpose and reliability when purchasing.
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Old October 22, 2012, 03:12 PM   #9
TheFlash
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Beretta686, if I could chime in here (somewhat) briefly...

You make some excellent points and to sum up what you're saying in one word: VALUE

A similar statement could be made regarding people who enjoy wine - as you touched on in your post. Yes, you can spend $100 on a bottle of Cabernet. Will it be tasty? Probably, as long as it's not corked. Is it worth the money? Well, for the people 'in the know', it certainly has that snob appeal.
However, you can get some decent red wines for $12 and up. Will they be as good as the $100 bottle? Depends upon your taste and what you value.

You could get a very nice bottle of red wine for $18 that is 80%-90% of that $100 bottle - which would make that $18 a great VALUE.

So, if you find some pistols/revolvers that are a great Value and are also reliable that you like... Then, they're worth it!

Just one guy's opinion...

Regards,
Mike

Last edited by TheFlash; October 22, 2012 at 03:13 PM. Reason: more detail...
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Old October 22, 2012, 08:22 PM   #10
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nothing wrong with a good saturday night special huh.
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Old October 23, 2012, 03:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
items, blah, blah, blah. I always considered Glock the cheapest one I had ("cheapness" being only a measure of price, as with Mil/LE price they're $400 NIB).
Who do you know has a Chromed CZ52? Answer. NOBODY!

Have you ever seen a Hard chromed CZ52? NOBODY!

Do you know any body that know's anybody that has seen a Hard chromed CZ52? NOBODY!

How many people do you know that has ever heard of a CZ52? NOBODY!


How many...................................................................? NOBODY

I have a $1500+ Glock. You think....? I've just started.

TBS, I will never turn my nose up at a S&W Sigma SW9VE owner, it's the person that owns the gun, not the gun.

I'm not a gun snob, but, I earner a place on the status quote.

And thats just the tip....
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Old October 23, 2012, 06:46 AM   #12
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A Springfield 1911 is not high end. A Les Baer 1911 is high end.
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Old October 23, 2012, 09:02 AM   #13
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Bersas are my budget gun of choice, I have yet to be disappointed by one.

If .380 ammo wasn't so darn expensive, it might actually see more range time than my higher-end options

Sub-$300 that malfunctions less that those that have cost much more

I love taking it to the range, listening to the jibes about "cheap Argentine crap" and then shooting 3-4 boxes without a hitch while their custom 1911's choke on every mag
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Old October 24, 2012, 02:15 AM   #14
Justice06RR
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Quote:
Anyway, my point is not that Taurus, Norinco or Charles Daley is better than higher end guns. Rather it's that you don't have to spend tons of $$$ to get a good, reliable gun, despite what internet commandos tell you.
Very well said. Cheers!
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Old October 24, 2012, 09:08 AM   #15
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"Have you ever seen a Hard chromed CZ52? NOBODY!"

You haven't?

Type ' CZ52 chromed ' into Google Images and check them out.
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Old October 24, 2012, 09:20 AM   #16
Redhawk5.5+P+
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Type ' CZ52 chromed ' into Google Images and check them out.


I don't have to, it's right on my lap.
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Old October 24, 2012, 05:29 PM   #17
Stressfire
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Quote:
Type ' CZ52 chromed ' into Google Images and check them out.
2 Ivory grip panels short of a "pimp" gun
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Old October 25, 2012, 06:57 AM   #18
Redhawk5.5+P+
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LOL

Quote:
2 Ivory grip panels short of a "pimp" gun
Same gun with no bling, just really cool IMHO. A ghetto gun that can shoot through there "bullet proof" vest's is good enough for me.

Take that homly.
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Old October 26, 2012, 07:54 AM   #19
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Pearl is for pimps. Ivory is for Generals. Patton: "They're ivory. Only a pimp from a cheap New Orleans whorehouse would carry a pearl-handled pistol."

A real gun snob has to have a few Korth handguns and at least one Fabbri o/u shotgun in his collection. (I have neither....I'm just an aspiring gun snob)
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Old October 26, 2012, 08:46 AM   #20
Eppie
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Kudos to you

I too am also blessed with a good income that enables me to buy pretty much what I want. However, growing up poor I'm also reasonably frugal.

I do not own any Les Baer or Nighthawk 1911s, I could buy them any time I want to. But I know that with computerized milling machines doing the work at all price level accuracy is not an issue for most guns. The single largest determinant of accuracy is the user. So on some thing spending more won't get you more.

There are some things were spending more will get you more. I do own a couple Swarovski Z6 5-30x50 scopes for my rifles. I have used middle market scopes (Leupold) and then decided to take a chance on a Swarovski only to be shocked by the improvement in clarity at the 300 yard plus range.

Bottom line is this: Any man making an honest living deserves respect regardless of his occupation or gun brand that he shoots, car that he drives, house address, etc...

The ones I detest are crooks (too often lawyers and politicians) that wear shirt and ties while systematically robing the people(taxpayers) of their hard earned money. Plenty of business people in that group too. My apologies for going off topic.
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Old October 26, 2012, 08:59 AM   #21
Beretta686
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Quote:
A Springfield 1911 is not high end. A Les Baer 1911 is high end
I'd say a Springfield TRP is a high-end gun for mere mortals. A Les Baer/Wilson Combat is on another planet. I've just never seen what the extra $2000 gets you for a true snob-riffic gun, but they sure are nice to play with. But the only thing I'd drop more than $3k for is a machine-gun and that barely gets you a MAC-10 nowadays.

Quote:
One of the men I hunt with has a Hi-Point 45 and swears by it
I've shot Hi-Points too and though they're ugly as hell and the ergonomics are terrible, I've actually found them reliable and having good practical accuracy. But to me Hi-Points are the equivilant of Boones Farm wine to continue our wine analogy and that's a line I just won't cross.
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Old October 26, 2012, 09:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
But to me Hi-Points are the equivilant of Boones Farm wine to continue our wine analogy and that's a line I just won't cross.
New sales slogan? Hi Point, the malt liquor or the gun world
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Old October 26, 2012, 10:15 AM   #23
PeterGreg
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I understand YMMV and there's always going to be turds out there produced by Taurus, Charles Daley and lower end manufacturers,
I'm not a gun snob and I can't afford turds so I avoid the low end stuff, Ruger is as cheap as I'll go with Browning and pre-64 Winchester and pre-70 Colt what I favor most.

I know nothing of cigars but instead I smoke in a civilized way with Dunhill and Ashton as my favorites .

Last edited by PeterGreg; October 26, 2012 at 10:26 AM.
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Old October 26, 2012, 10:22 AM   #24
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I got onto the Ruger "P" series pistols....P85, P89, P95 and the S&W Sigmas in 9mm and .40 cal. I have 4 of the Sigmas and use them for my house guns. I love to read how they are crap because that keeps the prices down! I've never had a malfunction in any of the pistols listed above and have had several copies of each.

I look for accuracy, features, reliability and quality. When I find that, I buy the item and don't give a flip about what anyone else says.

Flash
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Old October 26, 2012, 10:35 AM   #25
buckhorn_cortez
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Just because you like a Cuban Cohiba Siglo VI as I do...
I have no idea what this means. I assume it's an expensive cigar and we're all supposed to be impressed with your fine taste in smoking materials and/or it's price? Since you have nothing left once the cigar is gone, as far as I'm concerned, it's about as impressive as taking a $100 bill, rolling it up, and burning it. A novelty act for sure...

My comment on inexpensive guns - if you like them and cheapness is important to you - fine by me.

All of my guns, including rifles and shotguns, are custom guns. To me they're tools that have to work to my liking, and I don't mind paying for it.

As for Springfield 1911's, the only ones I'd be interested in owning would be the Professional, or a TGO1.

I don't drink, don't smoke, take my lunch to work, rarely go out to eat at a restaurant - and prefer to spend my money on guns that work exactly the way I want them to work.

Investing additional money into an inexpensive gun to make it work the way I want makes no sense to me - as all you have is a customized inexpensive gun - that is worth the price of a used inexpensive gun.

The least expensive gun I own in a Ruger MarkIII Hunter - and I haven't gotten around to putting the Volquartsen parts into it yet.
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