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Old October 24, 2012, 06:00 PM   #1
Mr Budha
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Mosin or AK for Hunting?

Okay say let me start off by saying I totally understand that really neither of these are ideal for hunting. And I know a lot of people will definitely not recommend the AK. But here is the story:

I'm going hunting for the first time the first week of November, it was sort of a last minute thing. I was supposed to borrow a hunting rifle from the guy I'm going with but long story short that isn't going to happen. Being as though I bought neither my Mosin Nagant or M10 AK-47 for hunting it turns out they are my only two options for the hunt. We will be hunting deer by the way.

I took the Mosin out to the range today and with cheap, white box, wolf ammo (148 grain FMJ). At 50 yards I was able to keep all the shots within about a 5" target. Moving out to 100 yards I was able to put two shots in the bullseye but the other shots were either high or left. Now it was a windy as hell day but I'm under the impression that it was more likely me than the weather (I'm not an experienced shooter). The AK still needs to have the iron sights adjusted at the range, and I need to practice with it if I'm going to take it (I do not want to wound the animal and have to track it, or hit it in the stomach where it might ruin the meat).

So my questions are basically, which gun might be better to take? If so, what ammo should I be using to hunt deer with in either rifle? I've been looking at 7.62x54r rounds online and finding most are at least 180 grain (I don't really want to put a ton of wear and tear on the mosin and I'm unsure if shooting a higher grain round is doing so?).

If you read all of this thank you! :-P And I'm open to any insight or comments!!

P.S. As much as I'd like to buy a rifle for this purpose that just isn't financially possible at this time. But I am thinking about a Marlin XL7 for the future.
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Old October 24, 2012, 06:16 PM   #2
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Either will kill deer with a well placed shot (which is true of almost any center fire). However if it was me, I'd take the mosin. Much better ballistics. But then inside 100 yards either will be just fine. I've killed plenty of deer with an SKS. Good luck on your first deer hunt. Don't get buck fever when that big one steps out!
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Old October 24, 2012, 06:33 PM   #3
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Depending on how you will be hunting, either could be OK. If it will be close cover, and shots will be under 100 yards or so, both would work, but neither would be a good choice for a beanfield rifle.

Heavier weight bullets won't wear the gun faster, however it will not hit the same point of impact as lighter ones.

With proper bullet selection at the ranges the rifle is good for bullet weight probably doesn't matter, but you need to put some rounds with through the rifle and see where it hits.

The Mosin probably has a longer sight radius than the AK, so it will be easier to hit with. There are a few tricks to make a Mosin shoot better, do a search online, you may be able to tighten things up a bit.

Try putting a paper plate up at 100 yards, that is about the size of a deer vitals. If you can't hit that target every time, (or damn near every time), you may think about passing on hunting this year.
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Old October 24, 2012, 06:37 PM   #4
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Here are a few accurizing articles for the Mosin Nagant

On edit, same article, better link, with photoshttp://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=529

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63.htm

http://www.smith-sights.com/article-...sin-nagant.php

Last edited by emcon5; October 24, 2012 at 06:48 PM.
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Old October 24, 2012, 06:42 PM   #5
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The 7.62x39 is adequate for deer, but the 7.62x54R is better. Also, better check your game laws; many states have magazine restrictions (usually 5 rounds), and some ban semi-auto rifles entirely. (Plus the AK could give a bad "image" with some game wardens, even if legal. My motto is "why ask for trouble?")

But don't worry about "wear and tear" on the M-N; WWI and WWII didn't wear them out, so I doubt a few shots in hunting will.

Jim
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Old October 24, 2012, 07:19 PM   #6
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From what have read the 7.62 x 39 is balistically similar to the 30 30, so I would call it very adequate for deer, and it uses spitzer bullets so it would be better than the 30 30 range wise. As for a bad image, what is the game warden going to do, take your library card away? Exercise your 2nd amendment rights! If it is legal, then by all means use one. You can get 5 round mags for it if there is is a limit on how many rounds you are allowed to have in the chamber and the magazine combined.
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Old October 24, 2012, 07:30 PM   #7
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Use the one you shoot best. Accuracy is more important than trajectory. Use soft point ammo that can expand. No fmj or tmj. Shoot the ammo you will hunt with to make sure it hits where you aim.
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Old October 24, 2012, 07:33 PM   #8
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your not going to break a mosin....trust me.

they will take down a deer, easy....and the 180grain is going to shoot just fine out of a mosin.
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Old October 24, 2012, 10:43 PM   #9
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Have shot deer with both. The Mosin is a better choice. Much like a 30-06. 203gr sp puts deer down right now. I was lucky, got a Mosin with a good bore that likes the heavier bullets.
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Old October 25, 2012, 12:37 AM   #10
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Great info guys thank you. I'm looking at a few videos on free floating the barrel, it seems easy enough. I'm also looking at some different ammo to try out. Brown Bear has an inexpensive soft point round that is 203gr. Also would like to try something else that's lighter to see what my rifle prefers. My trigger is stiff as hell on the Mosin, but I don't really want to mess with it since I have basically no experience in doing so.

Also, I'm told that the shots will be at or inside about 100 yards so If I manage to be accurate with either gun at 100 yards i'll feel pretty confident about which one to take.
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Old October 25, 2012, 12:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
The 7.62x39 is adequate for deer,
Depends upon the range, size of the deer, and the firearm it's fired from.....

Quote:
From what have read the 7.62 x 39 is balistically similar to the 30 30,
Out of an AK, they are similar in the same sense that a .38 special +p is ballistically similar to a .357 magnum..... the same, only less ..... When similar bullet weights are considered, the thuddythuddy is pushing a 2-3 hundred feet/second faster ...... and at 2200 f/sec, that's 10% faster...

If you are shooting deer similar to the deer I saw on the East Coast (maybe 75 lbs soaking wet) ..... either will work. There's airguns with enough energy to bring those down .......

7.62x54r (Commie Aught Six) will do fine ..... probably overkill..... but happiness is havin' enough.
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Old October 25, 2012, 12:53 AM   #12
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alright as has already been pointed out, both x39 and x54 are capable of taking deer, the only question is do you need to be able to take them past 150 yards? if so then the AK will require a lot more experience behind the trigger as x39 loses a great deal of energy at range while x54 retains it over distance.

you will need to get a decent pattern of where your gun hits with hunting ammo. surplus FMJ ammo is going to hit differently than wolf FMJ and that is going to hit differently than hornady soft points or polymer tips. hitting high with mosins is normal due to the 300 meter battle zeros they gave them so you will need to aim quite low between 50 yards and 200. I would recommend seeing how you are able to do with the AK and I would use the more expensive hunting ammo to get it zeroed as that will give you a more realistic idea of where it will hit while hunting. if you are able to get better accuracy out of the AK then it may be your better option, accuracy kills more deer than firepower. just be sure to pass on any shots that are too far away to make a clean kill, which will probably be anything past your abilities with iron sights.
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Old October 25, 2012, 01:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
My trigger is stiff as hell on the Mosin, but I don't really want to mess with it since I have basically no experience in doing so.
See the "Bubba Free Accurizing of the Mosin Nagant" link I posted above, it tells a decent way to improve the trigger fairly easily. Here is the link again.

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=529

Take a look (well, feel actually) and see if there are any burrs or rough spots where he mentions in that article. If there is, you can very carefully try and smooth them out with emory paper. Don't go nuts, just try and remove any obvious rust spots, and it may help quite a bit.

On edit: Forgot, another good reference on Mosin Accurizing:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...g-and-shimming

Last edited by emcon5; October 25, 2012 at 02:00 AM.
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Old October 25, 2012, 02:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
they are similar in the same sense that a .38 special +p is ballistically similar to a .357 magnum..... the same, only less .....
NOT the same comparison. you are still well over 1000 foot lbs, and you can use a soft point spitzer. Plenty to take Michigan white tail which are large deer. On the other hand if your skills are limited I would be scared to use one like jimbo seems to be, I would go with the Mosin Nagant which Is a full size load which would be slightly superior to the o6.
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Old October 25, 2012, 04:10 AM   #15
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Just take both...
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Old October 25, 2012, 08:08 AM   #16
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+1 on the 'Shoot thee no more with the fmj milsurp stuff"- at least not until after your trip. Scout around for various hunting loads, try them, and go with the one you manage the best groups with.

I personally wouldn't recommend the AK for hunting, and agree with the reasons listed above. It would be my guess that the MN would be the most forgiving for you.

And one last tip offering- if you haven't done so, google around for images of deer kill zones from all angles. I've seen a few new hunters only familiarize themselves with standing broadside shots, then get all frustrated and trigger happy when they realize deer don't always stand at perfect 90 degree angles to the muzzles (silly inconsiderate deer!)
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Old October 25, 2012, 12:22 PM   #17
Mr Budha
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I'll definitely take a look at the trigger and see where i can remove some of the rust.

I've been looking around locally for soft point ammo for the Mosin and just can't seem to find it. Even online I've had some issues. Best I could find is the Brown Bear stuff (203gr JSP) and the Winchester stuff (180gr SP) from cheaper than dirt, but man does it add up. Going to have to pick one of them I think to try out, unfortunately they ship from different warehouses so you have to pay additional shipping But I'm still leaning toward the Mosin as long as I can shoot the appropriate ammo accurately enough at 100yrds
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Old October 25, 2012, 12:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
I've been looking around locally for soft point ammo for the Mosin and just can't seem to find it. Even online I've had some issues. Best I could find is the Brown Bear stuff (203gr JSP) and the Winchester stuff (180gr SP) from cheaper than dirt, but man does it add up. Going to have to pick one of them I think to try out, unfortunately they ship from different warehouses so you have to pay additional shipping But I'm still leaning toward the Mosin as long as I can shoot the appropriate ammo accurately enough at 100yrds
Prvi PPU 150gr SP is available from Cabela's (on sale now for $79.99/ 5 boxes + a dry storage box) ...... inexpensive and more than enough to do the job. Shoots reasonably well from my Mosin.....
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Last edited by jimbob86; October 25, 2012 at 12:55 PM.
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Old October 25, 2012, 12:55 PM   #19
Mr Budha
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^ thanks, I just checked that out and might pick two or three boxes of that up. I also found some Wolf Gold (180gr SP) from a website called: ammunitionstore.com Seems legit but I haven't heard anything about them.
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Old October 25, 2012, 03:53 PM   #20
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So I actually just placed my order with ammunitonstore.com for 40 rds. of Wolf Gold 180gr SP ammo for the Mosin and some Wolf Military Classic HP (which I've heard is Okay) is the AK. Will shoot and update as soon as I can!
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Old October 25, 2012, 08:49 PM   #21
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I never had an AK, but I shoot the round from my AR. I had a Mosin M44. I liked it bunches. I would recommend the Mosin as more powerful (and probably much more accurate).
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Old October 25, 2012, 10:14 PM   #22
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I'd take the Mosin. The AK just isn't accurate enough for my tastes.
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Old October 26, 2012, 11:31 AM   #23
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Re comparing ....

Quote:
Out of an AK, they are similar in the same sense that a .38 special +p is ballistically similar to a .357 magnum..... the same, only less

Quote:
NOT the same comparison. you are still well over 1000 foot lbs, and you can use a soft point spitzer..
Hot .38 special+p runs around 400 ft/lbs ME (Buffalo Bore makes hotter yet)

.357 Magnum can do 550, without pushing it.


How fast are 123 gr soft points going out of an AK? 2200? 1300ft/lbs or so ME*.....

30/30 standard loading is 150gr at 2300 ..... 1760 ft/lbs....

400/550= .72ish call it 70%

1320/1760= .75ish .......

So the comparison is valid.....

*That's MUZZLE energy..... by 100 yards, that stumpy little bullet is packing under 1000 ft/lbs, and falling fast.

Quote:
On the other hand if your skills are limited I would be scared to use one like jimbo seems to be, I would go with the Mosin Nagant which Is a full size load which would be slightly superior to the o6.


I'm fine with my skills, and my ethics- I'll use the best tool that I have available for the job......
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Old October 26, 2012, 11:48 AM   #24
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I'd take the Mosin. The AK just isn't accurate enough for my tastes.
I've heard 3-4 MOA is typical. If the shooter can hold to that from field positions, then it's still "pie plate accurate" to 200 yards..... I know I would have some shooter induced error what with the wonderful sights on the AK..... the power of the round would preclude me from shooting at a deer past 100 yards, even if it was all I had..... trailing a wounded animal is not my idea of an afternoon well spent.
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Old October 26, 2012, 12:57 PM   #25
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Every comparison I have seen between the 7.62X39 to the .30-30 was more about trajectory than terminal ballistics. The trajectory of both is nearly identical out to 200 yards, and lackluster at best (compared to other .308 caliber options), but the .30-30 shoots heavier bullets as fast or faster.

The .30-30 is clearly superior on target (on edit: hits harder), but both are adequate to 100 yards or so, a little farther for the .30-30.

The answer to the OP remains, use the rifle that you shoot best. If you can put them all on a pie plate with the AK, but not the Mosin, use the AK. If you shoot both the same, I would use the Mosin.
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