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Old March 19, 2015, 06:09 PM   #1
Pogybait
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Remington 700 trigger

A few years ago, I saw a program on TV about problems Remington has had or may not have had with the trigger design on 700 series rifles. The design was faulty which caused rifles to discharge prematurely. The documentary was not able to say whether this is true. Does anyone have any information on this?
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Old March 19, 2015, 07:16 PM   #2
thekyrifleman
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Check previous threads....probably a 1000 comments.....personally I have had 700's for 50 years....never experienced problems related to the documentary you are referencing.
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Old March 19, 2015, 07:28 PM   #3
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I've had the misfire, and unexpected firing from the 700, but I totally blame myself for over lubing,(What?) yep overlubricating my 700 caused way too much crap build up in my trigger which in time causes trouble.

Now after doing a "Remington Crisp" to my 700, and lubing ONLY with lighter fluid I have one of the very sweetist old style remington triggers I have used.
Performing the "crisp" to the letter isn't for handfisted hardware store internet toolmen, or the like. You have to have knowledge of decent tools and limits of those tools and is not recommended for those who can't figure the workin end of a punch.
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Old March 19, 2015, 07:43 PM   #4
zachattack2
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My Remington 700 has no problem.

It is crisp and light.
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Old March 19, 2015, 08:03 PM   #5
reynolds357
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Go to Big Green's website. The recall tells the entire story.
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Old March 19, 2015, 11:25 PM   #6
math teacher
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I had mine misfire, but it was probably my fault for over adjusting. There is a reason the adjustment screws are covered with epoxy. I replaced the trigger with a Timney. No problem.
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Old March 20, 2015, 04:27 AM   #7
Tony Z
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I had my Model 700 fire while unloading, maybe 25 years ago. For the life of me, I can't remember the exact sequence of how it happened. Several times through the years, I have tried to replicate the firing, but have never been able to. In that time frame, I heard of owner owners having issues with the Model 700.

Fortunately, I have always practiced loading/unloading (as well as where the barrel points) in a safe manner, meaning towards the ground or at an intended target.
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Old March 20, 2015, 05:10 AM   #8
eastbank
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i have owned and used rem 700,s for over 50 years and have adjusted triggers on many, to adjust the trigger there are certain steps that must be taken in order to make it light and safe. i also think alot of the AD,s are caused by misadjusted triggers and people who push the safety off with their finger already on the trigger, but who claim the triggger mulfuctioned so they can sue for damages or to get out of personal blame for injuries. any trigger can fail with out proper adjustment and maintance. i bought a rem 700 that would not stay cocked when working the bolt, the fix was to soak the trigger in gun scrubber for a day and you would not believe the brown gunk that came out of it. the owner said he just sprayed WD-40 into it every fall before hunting season. eastbank.
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Old March 20, 2015, 06:09 AM   #9
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I've owned & shot many 700s over the past 50 years. Re-working triggers is simple enough, and very safe when done correctly.

A few years ago, I sent one out to a well-reputed 'smith in Glendora, Ca., for a set-back and , as I no longer have the machinery. While there, he tuned the trigger to an excellent feeling and consistent 2.5 lb. pull. After the season, I let the rifle wait out the winter in the safe. Three months later, it was time to put her back to work... When the bolt was closed and safety "on", it consistently discharged upon release of the safety. Sparkling clean, dry or lubed. Every time. The 'smith had sealed the adjustment screws with such a glob of JB Weld that I had to replace the assembly.

NOT a problem with Remington's trigger, just an example of improper handling. I am fond of the old Remington triggers, and trust them as much as any others.
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Old March 20, 2015, 07:40 AM   #10
Saltydog235
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Never had an issue with my 700 triggers, I take them out and put a Timney in because the Remington sucks.
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Old March 20, 2015, 09:29 AM   #11
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If you really want to know about Remington triggers, get a copy of "UnSafe by Design: Forensic Gunsmithing and Firearms Investigations".
http://www.amazon.com/UnSafe-Design-...Investigations

It's an interesting read to say the least.
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Old March 20, 2015, 10:40 AM   #12
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The Remington website has a serial number search to see if yours qualifies.
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Old March 20, 2015, 01:41 PM   #13
eastbank
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on a hunting rifle i never understood the need for a super light trigger, i like and use 4.5lbs trigger pulls on my walking/carrying hunting rifles and never felt handicapped or lost a shot at a animal because it was to heavy. if you want to see the rifles that have most AD,S, check out the older marlin-winchester lever actions, they are the worst ever. i don,t know any one shot by a AD with a remington or any other bolt action rifle in over 61 years of hunting, but i have known four men personly who were shot with AD,S from lever action rifles. it all goes back to safety training, never point your firearm at any thing you don,t want to shoot, loading /unloading or while hunting. i will not go into the field with any one who disobeys that rule. eastbank.
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Old March 20, 2015, 04:33 PM   #14
jmr40
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Long post, but please read.

The problem is related to the design. The engineer who designed the trigger in 1946 (Mike Walker) incorporated an experimental design that used a connector between the trigger and sear to give a smoother trigger pull.

Shortly after the guns went into production he discovered that the connector can move around inside the trigger group enough to disengage the sear with no trigger pull. When this happens the guns safety is the only thing holding back the firing pin. When the safety is moved to the fire position, the gun fires.

Walker advised Remington management of a "dangerous situation" with the trigger and designed a new trigger without the connector in 1946. Remington management declined to incorporate his design since they thought the possibility of it actually happening was so rare.

And it is fairly rare, but it does happen far more often than many want to accept. There were 134 rifles returned to Remington in 1980 alone with owners complaining their rifles had done this. Somehow the documentation for all other years has disappeared.

ANY trigger, if it is adjusted improperly could release and fire the gun unintentionally. And Remington continually claims this is the problem, or that folks are touching the trigger. And in some cases it is, but Remington can't explain why it happens with Remington bolt rifles at a rate far more often than other brands. And there are hundreds of well documented cases where rifles have done this that were fresh from the factory and had never been modified. Including one sent to Consumer Reports for a write-up in 1968.

The problem is well documented and is the connector. Even with a 10-12 lb trigger pull, if the connector disengages the sear the gun will fire when the safety is moved.

I have a 700 manufactured in 1974, bought new in 1975. The rifle is as clean and well maintained as a 40 year old rifle can be. The trigger has never been modified. I forget the exact year, but at some point in the mid 1990's mine did this while unloaded and on an empty chamber. It only did it a few times within a brief 30 minute or so time period. I never had an issue with it until about a month ago when it again repeated the same. After a few minutes the problem went away.

That is a handful of incidents on only 2 days over a 40 year period. That tells a lot about how rare it is and why many don't believe the problem is real. The truth is that at least 99% of the rifles ever made will NEVER do this, but at the same time 100% of the rifles with the Walker trigger could do it at any time.

The trigger is on every Remington bolt rifle made between 1946 and October 2006 except the 788 when they finally changed to a trigger with no connector. Rifles made 2006-2012 are being recalled for a different trigger issue.

As part of a recent lawsuit Remington has agreed to change triggers out on all of the 1946-2006 guns but the details have not been worked out. The terms of the settlement have to be approved by a Judge and I'd look for an official announcement within a few months.
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Old March 20, 2015, 05:13 PM   #15
tangolima
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The connector feature is a Remington patent. It doesn't make the trigger pull smooth, but it makes it break crisp. It is what makes a Remington rifle so good right out of box.

The issue is that the connector is not fully attached to the trigger, so it doesn't necessarily reset with the trigger. The safe blocks the primary sear, but it doesn't block the trigger, i. e. one can pull the trigger to move the connector forward when the safety is on. If the connector doesn't reset and sticks in the forward position, the gun will fire when the safety is off.

Mr. Walk noticed this weakness in the design, he suggested adding a part in the the safety linkage to block the trigger as well as the primary sear. His proposal was turned down as it was deemed unnecessary.

Why is the connector stuck in forward position? The return spring got turned out in pursuit of light trigger is one reason. The trigger mechanism being dirty is another possibility.

The design is sound and safe, but unfortunately it is not enough to out smart the ingenuity of users' foolishness. Well, I take it back. There is one thing that Remington has really blown it. Its safety should have 3 positions, instead of 2, so that one can unchamber while safety is on. It is rather silly that the safety must be off to open the bolt, given this very nature of their trigger.

-TL

As soon as I realized they might be doing away with the connector, I immediately bought one on eBay as a spare. I also modify the safety so that I can open the bolt with safety on. I keep my trigger free of any lube and the pull above 3lb. Never a hitch.

Last edited by tangolima; March 20, 2015 at 05:18 PM.
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Old March 20, 2015, 06:04 PM   #16
Paul B.
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"Mr. Walk noticed this weakness in the design, he suggested adding a part in the the safety linkage to block the trigger as well as the primary sear. His proposal was turned down as it was deemed unnecessary."

Mr. Walker was turned down on his redesign of the trigger because it would have cost Remington exactly five cents more to make the safer trigger. The bean counters strike again. IIRC, Remington has made over 7 million M700s in one form or another. The nickle extra would have cost Remington roughly $350,000. How much did it cost Remington in law suits and lawyers fees?
Looks like the bean counters were penny wise and pound foolish on that decision.
I have three Remington M700s and an M660. These are range guns only. I'm not taking a chance using rifles with suspect triggers on a hunt. One of these days I'll but a few Timneys and make then right but until then I'll just use them at the range where the muzzle is always pointed downrange, even when I remove a shell from the chamber. I did have issues way back with the M660 and Remington fixed the trigger. When I lived in Nevada many years back, my neighbor brought an M700 ADL over for me to look at. He said his brother in law shot both his wife's kneecaps out with the gun. This was about 1973 or 4 as I recall. His BIL claimed the gun went off when he opened the bolt to clear the chamber after a deer hunt. I manipulated that gun every which way I could thing of. Even upside down and never made it fire. (Empty chamber) After messing with it for about a week I took it back and told him I could find nothing wrong with it. He wasn't too happy and I think he was going to try and sue Remington for the loss of his wifes legs. The had to amputate above the knees. My thoughts? He took the safety off while having his finger on the trigger and the rifle was not pointed in a safe direction.
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Old March 21, 2015, 07:44 AM   #17
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i am not selling any of my rem 700,s, but i may sell all my old marlin and winchester lever actions that were causing AD,S for over 100 years, before adding safeties after selling millions of unsafe rifles. in 61 years of hunting and being around fireams i don,t know any one who had a AD with a rem 700, but i have known four peope who were shot with older lever actions, where are the people yelling about those rifles? a poster posted that his rifle had trigger problems one or two times and he could not get it to do it again. if the shooters who had AD,S were useing good firearm safety and handling habits all the ad s would have just blown a hole in the ground or sky.and i still think alot of the people having a AD with the rem 700,s and knowing about the suits against remington just claimed it was the trigger that caused the AD, who could prove them wrong? eastbank.
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Old March 21, 2015, 10:50 AM   #18
tangolima
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I don't mean to steer the thread off track.

Some people complain rem 700 goes off when they turn off the safety. Old lever actions don't have safeties to turn off; they have half cock notches. It must be different sorts of accidental discharge.

-TL
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Old March 21, 2015, 04:42 PM   #19
eastbank
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thats my point older lever actions don,t have safety,s, a rifle dropped on its hammer and the little notch breaks off and the rifle goes bang. i have seen AD,s with lever actions while unloading after deer drives in very cold and wet weather and loading in the same weather when the thumb slips off the hammer. AD,s have been happening with lever actions since the 1860 henry and winchester and marlin knew it,but did not put a safety on their rifles untill the 1980,s. i do like the safetys on md 70,s-mausers- springfields but i,m not afraid of rem bolt action safetys. i had a good friends dad killed when he did a dunb thing by setting his 1897 shotgun up aganist a tree while skinning a squirrel and it slipped off with the hammer hitting a rock breaking the little safety notch and hitting him in the neck at about six feet.eastbank.
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Old March 21, 2015, 05:01 PM   #20
tangolima
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I see. Thanks for clarifying.

That's probably the same reason Remington decided not to redesign the trigger as suggested by Walker. There weren't much litigation with big reward back then. For better or worse, we live in different world now.

Any I like my Remington the way it has been. I understand how it works and keep it at tip top condition. And I don't do silly things with it. I believe I will be fine.

-

Last edited by tangolima; March 21, 2015 at 05:49 PM.
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Old March 21, 2015, 05:15 PM   #21
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No firearm is safe. I am not convinced that statistically speaking Reminton's trigger is any worse than anyone else's.
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Old March 21, 2015, 06:49 PM   #22
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I've had about 1/2 dozen 700s over the years and only had trigger trouble with one. As indicated by other posts, it was a situation where a prior owner did an adjustment and the sear would release when the bolt closed. The fix was simple and free, the end result was a 2- 3/4 lb. trigger that is crisp and safe.

That said, if I personally wanted a trigger pull much under 3 lb.s for my 700, I would ditch the factory assembly and replace it with one that is specifically designed to go light.
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Old March 21, 2015, 08:02 PM   #23
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The problem with the "ones that are intentionally designed to go light" is that they will at times fire without the trigger being pulled. The big difference from a legal standpoint between a factory an an aftermarket trigger is liability. The factory has almost no wiggle room when something bad happens. The aftermarket companies can blame the failure on improper installation. I put in a lot of match triggers. Most of them come with warnings that in a roundabout way tell you can not trust the trigger you must rely on rules of gun safety.
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Old March 21, 2015, 08:45 PM   #24
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Jewel's varmint class triggers have an advertised range of adjustment of 1.5b oz. to 3.5 lb.s. They come preset from the factory at 1lb., that's pretty darn light (by design) when compared to the typical 3.5 to 8 lb.factory triggers. I'm not persuaded that a $200.00 trigger preset at the factory to 1 lb. should be expected to discharge occasionally.
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Old March 21, 2015, 09:14 PM   #25
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Old Scott, you ever read this?

"Jewell Triggers guarantees that its products are free from defects in materials and workmanship for a period of one (1) year from date of purchase. In the event of any defect in materials or workmanship, Jewell Triggers' sole liability therefore shall be the repair or replacement of any such products that are defective in materials or workmanship, at the option of Jewell Triggers. The repair or replacement of any such products(s) shall be Jewell Triggers' sole responsibility. This warranty specifically excludes any and all consequential or accidental damages. No other warranties or liability whatsoever are either expressed or implied. If any such warranties shall be imposed by law notwithstanding this provision, then such warranties shall be the responsibility of Jewell Triggers' immediate buyer. By way of example, and not limitation, there shall be no warranties of merchantability, use of trade, or fitness for a particular purpose."

JEWELL TRIGGERS. INC.

3620 Hwy. 123
San Marcos, TX 78666
(512)353-2999
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