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Old November 15, 2012, 11:51 AM   #126
OldMarksman
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Quote:
Posted by afone1: Unless it is the gunfight at the OK corral, 8 should be fine.
"Should be?" What if it isn't?

Assume a hit rate that would be realistic for firing very rapidly during a stressful, quickly unfolding encounter with two fast-moving violent criminal actors. Assume that two hits are required to stop each one.

What is your probability of success with eight rounds?

Hint: the calculations have already been shown in this thread.

Yes, you may well be fine. Or not.
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Old November 15, 2012, 12:11 PM   #127
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Yesterday, I wore my SAA Colt .45 all day long with only five rounds in it, only twelve spare rounds and no BUG. Luckily I didn't engage in an armed confrontation with the Zeta Cartel. There's always tomorrow though.

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Old November 15, 2012, 01:29 PM   #128
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Rationalization, denial, fantasy, emotion, pride it will all get you killed if the right situation comes along. The unfortunate thing is that we do not get to pick when, where and what happens. The fact that you live a "low threat lifestyle" and live in the nice part of town is great, but criminals have cars too.

A double action revolver in the hands of a trained dedicated shooter is very effective so long as it packs enough punch. You guy's that carry a single action six shooter with 5 shots for self defense; I hope your fantasy does not get you killed.

I am a big guy too, 6' 275lbs, I hike and train and work out. I am still scared of little guys with knives ( been stabbed 3 times).
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Old November 15, 2012, 01:46 PM   #129
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You are afraid of a knife but you aren't afraid of a .452 caliber 250 grain HP projectile going 900+ fps? Strange way of looking at it.

Single Action revolvers are one of least desirable SD handguns, in my opinion. However, they are still formidable weapons and very effective in competent, practiced hands.
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Old November 15, 2012, 06:32 PM   #130
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You are afraid of a knife but you aren't afraid of a .452 caliber 250 grain HP projectile going 900+ fps? Strange way of looking at it.
I never said that. It's just that some guy's think because they are big other people quake and run away.
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Old November 15, 2012, 09:50 PM   #131
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I think you should carry your DA revolver and a speed loader or two. You should also carry an assortment of loaded mags. I suggest Sig, Glock, and Beretta for this since they are popular. That way you have a better chance of picking up a handgun from the carnage and reloading it.

You should also never venture any more than 50' from a properly grounded lightning rod.

Carry what makes you comfortable doing the things you do.
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Old November 16, 2012, 12:25 AM   #132
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Of "Is X Rounds Enough?" threads, I wonder what number yields the most discussion/controversy. This thread is stomping the "6 Round" thread in the Revolver forum

Can't believe we're still doing this (everything that could be said has been said a dozen times over now...)

Quote:
I am still scared of little guys with knives ( been stabbed 3 times).
Sounds like a valid reason to be leery of little guys with knives to me...

Quote:
Quote:
Unless it is the gunfight at the OK corral, 8 should be fine.
"Should be?" What if it isn't?
To be fair, everyone involved in the famous Corral Incident was looking for a fight; something we as Responsible Gunmen seek to avoid, right?

TCB
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Old November 16, 2012, 12:46 AM   #133
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Two words: dog pack. (Edit: They aren't limited to zoos. See the UGA professor and his wife who were killed near Athens, GA last year.)
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Old November 16, 2012, 07:48 AM   #134
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im a 6'1" 235 lb. guy myself, and had little punk tried to mug me with foot long butchers knife, when i was walking home from 7/11 about 5 years ago.
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Old November 16, 2012, 09:13 AM   #135
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Quote:
Posted by barnbwt: To be fair, everyone involved in the famous Corral Incident was looking for a fight; something we as Responsible Gunmen seek to avoid, right?
How would that affect the outcome once the attack begins?
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Old November 16, 2012, 09:42 AM   #136
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"How would that affect the outcome once the attack begins?"

At the most obvious level, it may result in the fight never taking place, which is always the best case scenario.
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Old November 16, 2012, 09:49 AM   #137
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Quote:
How would that affect the outcome once the attack begins?
If I remember correctly, didn't Doc Holiday use a double barrel shotgun (holds 2 rounds) to take out at least one or two Clantons? Why didn't he use a pistol? Was he too stupid to know that he would have had 3 times as much ammo in a 6 shooter as he did in the shotgun?
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Old November 16, 2012, 10:05 AM   #138
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Quote:
If I remember correctly, didn't Doc Holiday use a double barrel shotgun (holds 2 rounds) to take out at least one or two Clantons? Why didn't he use a pistol? Was he too stupid to know that he would have had 3 times as much ammo in a 6 shooter as he did in the shotgun?
He started out with a Charles Parker 1878 Side by Side Shotgun 12 Gauge but did have a Colt Peacemaker as a sidearm as far as I remember the story/documentation being told.
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Old November 16, 2012, 12:08 PM   #139
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It's just that some guy's think because they are big other people quake and run away.
Who here has ever made the argument that little guys will just run away from them because they're big? I certainly haven't and I've not noticed anyone else making such an argument either. The only reason that I ever brought up my physical size was to illustrate that I'm most likely to be attacked by a very large person and thus find it prudent to place a caliber that will likely perform well on a larger-than-average sized person high on my priority list. The original point that I was trying to make was that because I'm more likely to face one or two very large individuals than several small-to-average size individuals, caliber is higher on my priority list than capacity is.
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Old November 16, 2012, 12:19 PM   #140
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Carry what you like

I think 8 rounds are fine. For me it depends on what I am carrying. If its my ppks it's 2 mags 14 rounds. if its my Sig 226 its 35 rounds in 2 mags. But from what some people are saying I feel like I should be carrying around a M60 with 2K rounds. If you think you are going to shoot it out with 6 armed people or a drug cartel, odds are you will most likely die. I don't feel the need to carry multiple guns when I go out, in the off shoot chance I run in to a gun battle like in the movie Heat. My 2 cents.

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Old November 16, 2012, 12:43 PM   #141
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Quote:
I think you should carry your DA revolver and a speed loader or two. You should also carry an assortment of loaded mags. I suggest Sig, Glock, and Beretta for this since they are popular. That way you have a better chance of picking up a handgun from the carnage and reloading it.

You should also never venture any more than 50' from a properly grounded lightning rod.

Carry what makes you comfortable doing the things you do.

I'm comfortable with a SA .357 and a SA 44 mag


It helps to know that you don't have to hit a boogerman 3 or 4 times to make him want to stop being a boogerman.

Now if I could just get them all to wear targets and stand very still at 15 to 25 yards...............

I wonder if that's why they made me carry a 45 pistol and two loaded spare magazines? It's a mystery I tell you, its a mystery and it will never be solved by mortal man till we are long gone and only remembered by dust blowing in the hot winds.
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Old November 16, 2012, 01:51 PM   #142
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Quote:
"How would that affect the outcome once the attack begins?"

At the most obvious level, it may result in the fight never taking place, which is always the best case scenario.
Of course, yes, and amen.

But my question was about how the fact that a defender had not been looking for trouble and who had been looking to avoid, de-escalate, evade, and escape, would affect his needs once an attack had begun.

I contend that it would not.
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Old November 16, 2012, 02:58 PM   #143
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But my question was about how the fact that a defender had not been looking for trouble and who had been looking to avoid, de-escalate, evade, and escape, would affect his needs once an attack had begun.
Once the fight begins you either win or you lose. that depends on many variables some you control, some you do not.

You can control:

Your skill level
Your equipment
Your attitude/awareness


You cannot control:

Your opponents skill level
Your opponents equipment
Your opponents attitude


Nobody can answer the question about how many rounds is enough because nobody can possibly know. If you use the best equipment you can and master said equipment and have the proper mindset you stand a better chance of coming out on top. I train and prepare to dominate any fight I am involved in, whether there is a gun or not.
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Old November 16, 2012, 03:32 PM   #144
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I'm wearing my Model 29-2 loaded with six 300 grain XTPs and two speed loaders of the same. I can draw and put all six in the A-zone of an ISPC Target up to seven yards, on out to twenty five most hit the target, most of the time, in less than three seconds. I can shoot faster with a Model 19/66. I can spin a 4" Model 28, loaded with the hottest .357 Magnums and make it sound like a machine gun. I'll be toast though, if a team of operators strike. Wonder if I could survive if I had a 1911 in a Yaqui Slide and two spare magazines and a j-frame for a BUG, I'm really quick and accurate with that combo. How about a Mac 10, or multiple body guards?

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Old November 16, 2012, 03:45 PM   #145
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I would say 8 shots could be enough but in certain situation it won't be enough .Some are saying that most confrontations there are 3 shots fired in other words you are unlikely to need more. But the same people carry a firearm in case they need one the odds are that it is unlikely they will ever need to use a firearm. They also carry in con 1 in so they can get their firearm into action quicker even tough they are unlikely ever to need to use it.

PS I would carry it with a reload just in case.
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Old November 16, 2012, 05:23 PM   #146
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Eight is enough, unless it really isn't your day. And in that case, even 100 is not enough.
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Old November 16, 2012, 05:25 PM   #147
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I just upped the ante, things, as the young people say, just got real. I'm wearing on my belt a 1911a1 .45 ACP, its cocked and locked, with six in its seven round magazine and two spare seven round magazines in a two mag carrier. The ammo is premium 230 grain FMJ. My PM9, with six in it, five in its six shot mag and one in the chamber, it is in my right front pocket. A spare seven round magazine for it, is in my left front pocket. The ammo is 115 grain XPB. If I get attacked by a light infantry squad, shot by a crack sniper, attacked by the Bandidos Motorcycle Club, or hit by a drone strike, it might be inadequate though.
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Old November 16, 2012, 05:31 PM   #148
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I've come to the conclusion, after reading this thread through, that 8 is enough unless it isn't.

Pretty profound.
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Old November 16, 2012, 05:51 PM   #149
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Criminals are cowards. Two things they don't want to happen:

1. They do not want to get shot.

2. They do not want to go to jail.

If you pop off one or two rounds, they are going to be running away so fast, if they didn't get hit.

Most SD shootings are one or two shots, if needed. That's when the thugs realize, oh crap, this guy has a gun and he means business.

A 5 shot 642 is fine for CC.

Also there is no honor among thieves. The ones that can run away will leave their wounded buddies behind. They are not going to stick around to see what happens next.
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Old November 16, 2012, 06:05 PM   #150
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Quote:
Most SD shootingor two s are one shots, if needed. That's when the thugs realize, oh crap, this guy has a gun and he means business.
I wouldn't bet your life on that.



Quote:
Most SD shootings are one or two shots, if needed. That's when the thugs realize, oh crap, this guy has a gun and he means business.
You say most. What about the time that one or two shots isn't enough. Why take the chance carry extra rounds common sense i think.

Last edited by manta49; November 16, 2012 at 06:10 PM.
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