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Old November 7, 2012, 02:45 PM   #26
JimDandy
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Man am I glad I don't live on the East Coast ,Illinois or California. Put me in the middle of a big ass state with preemption, and shall issue laws.

According to Handgunlaw.us you wouldn't even meet Title 18 requirements... locked in a compartment with neither the gun nor the ammunition readily available from the passenger compartment. I didn't read the WV page, but I wouldn't take the thing to MD or DC. Wow. I wouldn't take a Red Rider BB gun to MD...
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Old November 7, 2012, 05:16 PM   #27
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In some states you would be fine in others you would end up in jail. I would have to go look at each state to tell you anything for any given state. NY and NJ are out for sure.

But some states state there can not be any ammo attached to the firearm. Is a Side Saddle considered Attached? I don't know.

In some states transporting a long gun in your trunk and stopping can get you arrested.

In states you can have an unloaded shot gun in your trunk I would carry the ammo in a belt made to hold shotgun shells and not attach them to the shotgun unless I was positive about those states laws.

Heck in Ohio having an Unloaded clip fed handgun, rifle or handgun locked in a box and a loaded mag for the firearm loaded in another locked box is considered having a loaded firearm in your vehicle. Go figure.
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Old November 7, 2012, 06:24 PM   #28
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In some states you would be fine in others you would end up in jail. I would have to go look at each state to tell you anything for any given state. NY and NJ are out for sure.
I'm fairly certain its legal in most of NYS as long as its unloaded.
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Old November 7, 2012, 06:48 PM   #29
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If you are out of state you better have a hunting shotgun and a hunting license or showing you are on your way to a skeet range to shoot or you are in big trouble. Have a defensive shotgun and no hunting license you are in really big trouble.

Now an instate person might be able to get away with a hunting shotgun in NY but NY does not allow you to put firearms in your vehicle just to keep them there. You have to be transporting it for a specific reason like going hunting, shooting or to get it repaired etc.
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Old November 7, 2012, 07:03 PM   #30
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I didn't really think describing my situation and the specifics as to why I wish to carry the shotgun were relevant to my thread, but for those questioning my intent, i will. I spend a good amount of time away from home, often for days at a time, sleeping at my girlfriends house most nights. There are 4 children living in her house, and currently no practical means of safely securing a long gun there permanently. There are times when I'm there that I would feel more comfortable with a long gun, just in case. The recent hurricane Sandy is a good example. Carrying the shotgun in my car makes it possible to have with me anytime I'm staying away from home, not for immediate self defense scenarios while I'm driving around as some people have suggested, thats what my CCW is for. I'd be awfully upset if i was staying somewhere away from home and found myself in a situation where one of my long guns could be beneficial, only for them to all be sitting in my safe at home. Furthermore, when I travel to visit family and friends in NYS, I also have to leave my CCW behind, so having the 870 (which is NYS legal) allows me to go without being completely unarmed.

I've decided to leave the side saddle empty, and store the ammo in a locked case in the rear cargo area, although its legal in my homestate of VA to transport it loaded. My main concern is traveling into MD which I do more often than I prefer, and where I must leave my CCW behind. I could just take the shotgun out too, only it requires more effort that I'm not sure is necessary.
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Old November 7, 2012, 07:14 PM   #31
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Here is a FAQ From the MD State Police:

Firearms

How can I legally transport firearms within / through Maryland?

Answer: They must be unloaded, in a carrying case, holster with a flap and the ammunition should be separate. It would be best to keep the unloaded weapon in the trunk where you do not have access to it. There are further regulations but essentially you can only transport a handgun between residence, to and from a repair shop, a shooting sporting event, between a residence and place of business if substantially owned and operated by the person. For more information please contact our Licensing Division.

They state Handguns in this but it is under the Rifle/Shotgun FAQ'sNew York, Mass and NJ are more stringent on their laws/rules on transporting. You just can't keep it in your vehicle.
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Old November 7, 2012, 07:18 PM   #32
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When visiting NY the gun will be in a locked case on the way there, and removed from the vehicle once I reach my destination. Sounds like I should be ok in MD.
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Old November 7, 2012, 09:05 PM   #33
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I didn't really think describing my situation and the specifics as to why I wish to carry the shotgun were relevant to my thread, but for those questioning my intent, I will.
It has noting to do with questioning your intent! As you can see from numerous posts, the purpose for which the firearm is transferred is relevant in some situration (transported to a range for example, whereas in some jurisdictions you can't just transport it to have it with you for self protection).

I noticed before that you asked the same question over on shot gun world and then got bent out of shape at the folk over there when they gave you similar answers. If you don't wish to here what people think, perhaps you shouldn't ask.
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Old November 7, 2012, 09:13 PM   #34
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It absolutely does have to do with questioning intent when you're accused of "looking for a fight" when posting a question regarding legality of firearm transportation.
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Old November 7, 2012, 11:41 PM   #35
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Furthermore, when I travel to visit family and friends in NYS, I also have to leave my CCW behind, so having the 870 (which is NYS legal) allows me to go without being completely unarmed.
This sentence right here. Your going to carry a 870 when you cant carry your ccw. If you have time to go to your truck grab and then load your 870. You have enought time to exit the situation, and thier would be no need for the 870, that is what a jury is going to look at if you happen to shoot someone. There are some legality issues with this. We are not trying to be mean but common sense should be used, especially when firearms are involved.
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Old November 8, 2012, 12:37 AM   #36
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Capt --

First, what is your plan for safely storing your shotgun when at your girlfriend's if there is no safe and 4 kids? Do you plan to take it in and out of the truck everyday? Sounds like a big pain when an 870 express and a stack on gun cabinet is not all that much money. Neither are "top of the line" but both are adequate and much cheaper than a lawyer if you get yourself in hot water. It seems more like justification for a course of action that appeals to you than a really good solution or idea.

I think your assumption that you will be OK in MD is a big one, and given the anti-gun nature of the state not a risk I would really want to take. For instance what is, or is there a legal statement in MD code as to what "transport" means? does it mean I keep this gun in a case in my vehicle at all times? Note it says transport and not possession, some states refer to posession of firearms in a vehicle... whole other story. Or does it mean you MAY place a gun, in a case and drive it somewhere? See the argument an attorney could make here? You are not "transporting" that involves a start / stop, origin and destination, with some perhaps legitimate use of the gun, or need for the gun at one end or the other. instead one could argue you are carrying --- that is a state of always having the gun in the car, and that is not legal, or could be argued to not be legal or is not the intent of the law's discussion of transport. The fact you are here and elsewhere discussing it as always being there would not help you.

Again unless the word is defined by statute it's going to end up in court IF they want it to, which with the wrong set of luck it could well, then you have to write the big check to an attorney and slug it out in court. Odds are good that you would win, but do you want to bet on it and foot the bill?

You seem to be open to change as you have changed your concept of this considerably from when you started the thread and that's great as you are considering things. I would suggest that you continue to think it through as there are lots of other alternatives in all of this that are likely easier in the political climate you have to live in. Again so far as I am concerned it should be a non issue across the 50 states, but then we know that's a long way off.
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Old November 8, 2012, 01:33 AM   #37
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It absolutely does have to do with questioning intent when you're accused of "looking for a fight" when posting a question regarding legality of firearm transportation.
I missed where anyone said that and I doubt that you wish to keep the 870 with you and look for trouble. Now that you mention it, you do seem to be trolling and in that fashion "looking for a fight".
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Old November 8, 2012, 01:33 AM   #38
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Question? Why do you need to drive around with a shotgun in your car, and also if you need to ask these questions, that should be the first indaction that you probably should re think your plan.
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I just dont under stand why someone would want to carry a hidden shot gun or 1,000 rounds of ammo in thier vehicle.
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This sentence right here. Your going to carry a 870 when you cant carry your ccw. If you have time to go to your truck grab and then load your 870. You have enought time to exit the situation, and thier would be no need for the 870, that is what a jury is going to look at if you happen to shoot someone. There are some legality issues with this. We are not trying to be mean but common sense should be used, especially when firearms are involved.
I'm sorry, how is it any of your business why he wants to transport a shotgun or where he envisions needing one? This is a simple question about the legality of transporting to specific states, not a request for opinions about the desire to use a shotgun for personal defense.
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Old November 8, 2012, 01:43 AM   #39
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I missed where anyone said that and I doubt that you wish to keep the 870 with you and look for trouble. Now that you mention it, you do seem to be trolling and in that fashion "looking for a fight".
Try posts 4, 13, 25, and 35. Post 13 states specifically, "I just dont under stand why someone would want to carry a hidden shot gun or 1,000 rounds of ammo in thier vehicle. I dont go around looking for a fire fight, but it seems like some people plan on it."

Sorry, I'm with Capt on this one. He asked a question about transporting a shotgun and got multiple responses demanding he explain the reason for wanting to do so, which by the way were asked by a guy who's been on the forum barely a month. I understand his frustration and don't think it's fair to say he's looking for a fight when his motives have been brought into question in this manner.

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Old November 8, 2012, 01:59 AM   #40
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Ok, scsov. I see where he was called out for looking for a fight. I don't think anything he has written suggests that he is doing anything of the kind and many of the comments he finds offensive were made to impress him with how local law enforcement may view things if he is found with a shotgun in his car. The question as to the wisdom of taking a shotgun into a home with four children seemed a good one, but there are gun locks for situations of the sort.
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Old November 8, 2012, 02:33 AM   #41
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Ok, scsov. I see where he was called out for looking for a fight. I don't think anything he has written suggests that he is doing anything of the kind and many of the comments he finds offensive were made to impress him with how local law enforcement may view things if he is found with a shotgun in his car. The question as to the wisdom of taking a shotgun into a home with four children seemed a good one, but there are gun locks for situations of the sort.
The question about taking a shotgun into a home with children is a fantastic one. But since the guy is being responsible enough to take the time and inquire about the legal transport of a shotgun, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's aware of how to safely handle and store a weapon around others. I just vehemently object to a guy asking a legitimate, responsible question only to be accused of looking for a firefight or thinking he's Rambo. No room for that sort of stuff on this forum.
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Old November 8, 2012, 03:24 AM   #42
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SCSOV ---

I would like to give the OP the benefit of the doubt here, which I think I have and think that he or anyone deserves. He has clarified things a bit here and has expressed more than a few changed ideas about things.

Likewise give the rest of us the benefit as well, go and read post #1. The question, as posed was NOT, "I visit friends in NY State, can I transport my unloaded shotgun there or anywhere else". The question was regarding a 870, "loaded" in the eye of the law in some states (shells in the side saddle) kept in a "hiding spot" in his new SUV while going to a laundry list of places including possibly NYC, so in the first post at a minimum it seems to be more a discussion of toting around a loaded or unloaded 870 in one's vehicle in any number of less than gun friendly locations.

I hope you can see that this conversation steered the way it did because of how, and what was said in post one. All of us here are likely in agreement that it should not be as hard as it is to figure out the rules for transporting a gun, or have to fear over running afoul of them. Likewise folks seem to be in agreement that the need for an at the ready long arm in a vehicle is microscopic to zero.

Frankly I don't think there is much need to say anything further and the discourse here has been very civil. Internet forums are conversations, they take turns and such no big surprise there and frankly some questions get predictable responses for predictable reasons. If I posted to ask where on a bear was the best placed to shoot it with a 22 magnum to effect a kill should I be surprised when I get asked why or told the folly of this?
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Old November 8, 2012, 05:15 AM   #43
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Likewise give the rest of us the benefit as well, go and read post #1. The question, as posed was NOT, "I visit friends in NY State, can I transport my unloaded shotgun there or anywhere else".
From post 1: "My question pertains to the legality of transporting the shotgun out of state." Seems to me that was exactly the question posed...

Regardless, I'm totally willing to give people the benefit of the doubt as you suggest. However, there's no way you can tell me that the comments made in posts 4, 13, 25, and 35 are civil. Accusing a guy of looking for a firefight, comparing him to Rambo, and then finally suggesting that he lacks the common sense to understand what constitutes a judicial use of lethal force isn't civil, and such comments certainly didn't contribute anything to the thread. I'm not interested in fighting, but I'm also not going to turn a blind eye to comments like that when they are clearly inappropriate and unnecessary. If we want the forum to remain civil then we've got to be willing to jump in and say something when comments like the aforementioned are made.
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Old November 8, 2012, 12:32 PM   #44
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This thread could be closed for all I care. I have made a point of giving the Captain and you the beneifit, but you don't want to let up. The man has a chip on his shoulder. He asked for legal info and when it was given to him he comes back to me with a smart ass response implying that I was wrong about a hidden shotgun being subject to concealed weapons law. Others documened that I am correct about that issue. This is my last comment on this thread. Please feel free to disregard any I have offered or implied regarding legal issues.
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Old November 8, 2012, 12:47 PM   #45
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This thread could be closed for all I care. I have made a point of giving the Captain and you the beneifit, but you don't want to let up. The man has a chip on his shoulder. He asked for legal info and when it was given to him he comes back to me with a smart ass response implying that I was wrong about a hidden shotgun being subject to concealed weapons law. Others documened that I am correct about that issue. This is my last comment on this thread. Please feel free to disregard any I have offered or implied regarding legal issues.
I'm not sure how my comment regarding the concealed gun came across as "smart ass." I was and am curious about it. Not sure why you think I have a chip on my shoulder either.
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Old November 8, 2012, 09:41 PM   #46
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He asked a question about transporting a shotgun and got multiple responses demanding he explain the reason for wanting to do so, which by the way were asked by a guy who's been on the forum barely a month.
What does this have anything to do with anything. I just wanted to know why he need to carry this shotgun around with him all the time.

I guess since I have only been here a month I am not allowed to ask questions??
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Old November 8, 2012, 10:29 PM   #47
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People are differentiating between "carrying" and "transporting", however i don't see the difference, nor have I found anything to suggest a difference. My understanding is that transporting and carrying are considered one in the same, whether you are driving through, to a shooting event, or just to the grocery store or whatnot. If anybody could provide a reference to confirm, clarify, or prove otherwise, it would be appreciated.
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Old November 8, 2012, 10:49 PM   #48
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Captains and others - first, I am not a lawyer, nor did I ever violate the premises of a "law school."

It is my civilian understanding that, at least here in Florida, the critical difference between "carrying" and "transporting" is ACCESS. (Couldn't get the Bold to work, vs all-caps) If your gun (shotgun is irrelevant) is 3 steps or more away from access to firing-capable, it is "transporting," AFAIK. That means unloaded, in a container, and locked. A container probably includes a storage compartment in an SUV, for example, and a locked one of those probably meets the definition of the third step.

The meaning of the rule is that it must take at least three dissimilar steps to retrieve, arm and fire the weapon.

In the 1950s I would have thought this requirement outrageous. Today I think it is reasonable because cops are more likely to be shot at than before (never mind our troops abroad). But the people around me today are not like the people who were around me in the 1950s. The Slippery Slope has been "slud."

To me, the lesser of the evils is a CCW permit.
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Old November 10, 2012, 10:41 AM   #49
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Three steps....ok.. So I would think folding up the rear seat and removing the gun from the sock would constitute one step, then opening up the rear cargo area to remove and unlock the ammo would be step two, and finally loading the gun step three. Many could argue that process involves more steps, just as I'm sure some could claim it to be fewer. Seems just as interpretational as anything else. I also wonder how "passenger or driver accessible" storing the gun under the rear folding seats would be considered.
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Old November 10, 2012, 12:00 PM   #50
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Sorry, I'm with Capt on this one. He asked a question about transporting a shotgun and got multiple responses demanding he explain the reason for wanting to do so, which by the way were asked by a guy who's been on the forum barely a month. I understand his frustration and don't think it's fair to say he's looking for a fight when his motives have been brought into question in this manner.
I agree with scsov509. I carry an unloaded shotgun in my vehicle for much the same reasons as Captains1911 espoused. Furthermore, though I have a ccw permit and carry a concealed handgun most of the time, it's been my experience that, when traveling in states other than my own, a shotgun will be more "legal" in many, if not most, jurisdictions than a handgun is and might raise less eyebrows from some police officers.

I am a retired le after thirty years of service and I can assure you that I'm not driving around looking for a gun fight-and I have no idea why some posters have implied that the op might have that in mind when he just asked a simple question.

With regard to carrying the shotgun legally in most states and municipalities, my advice to the op is to not have rounds in a side-saddle and to keep the gun unloaded in a case with the action open.
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