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Old November 7, 2012, 11:09 PM   #26
Webleymkv
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I'd be particularly interested in how the Tok performs with heavier bullets like the 100gr in comparison to the 327 (kinda hard to do apples-apples when .30 cal pistol bullets aren't common in other chamberings ).
I don't see why could couldn't run a .312" bullet (a more common size) through a .309 sizing die to make them usable in a 7.62x25 load. In .312 diameter, JHP bullets up to and including 115gr are available.
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Old November 7, 2012, 11:21 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Webleymkv:
I don't see why could couldn't run a .312" bullet (a more common size) through a .309 sizing die to make them usable in a 7.62x25 load. In .312 diameter, JHP bullets up to and including 115gr are available.
FWIW, I believe that is what brassfetcher did in the link that I posted on the first page.
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Old November 7, 2012, 11:33 PM   #28
Webleymkv
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FWIW, I believe that is what brassfetcher did in the link that I posted on the first page.
That's almost certainly what they did with the 85gr and 100gr loadings as Hornady doesn't make a .308 or .309 XTP in those weights. They may not have done so with the 90gr XTP, however, because Hornady does make such a bullet in .309 diameter.
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Old November 8, 2012, 12:11 AM   #29
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Wonder if a 100-110 gr .30 Carbine bullet could be used?
I've heard of the carbine bullet being used with .32 French Long handloads.

Theres a 100 gr short jacket Carbine bullet.

A carbine bullet designed to expand at 200 yards from the low velocity carbine should expand well at 25 yards frpm a high velocity pistol.

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Old November 8, 2012, 06:02 AM   #30
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Not sure if the heavier bullets would feed through an autoloader.....but, if you had a Ruger Blackhawk in .30Carbine with a spare cylinder reamed to 7.62x25, you wouldn't have to worry about that.
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Old November 9, 2012, 12:20 PM   #31
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Looks like we've managed to start a pretty interesting discussion here. Now I'm considering tinkering around with the round just to see what it can do. Makes me wonder how it would perform with cast lead projectiles as well.
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Old November 9, 2012, 12:31 PM   #32
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Everyone hates on the tt33 and TTC safties,... and well thats becuase the add on one suck.


However, the one the gun CAME WITH (half cock) works excellently.
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Old November 9, 2012, 01:06 PM   #33
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Would be interesting of Corbon made a DPX round for the 7.62x25. CCI gold dot round to!

If so, the Yugo guns with the good thumb 1911 style safety would be my pick.

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Old November 9, 2012, 04:05 PM   #34
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If one was all I had, or could afford I would not feel under equipped with it. I would choose to have a gun over nothing any day. Though I must admit I would go for a 9mm Mak over the Tok. I carry one in my pocket more than any other gun I own. I know that the time will come when I see a Tok that is priced right when have the money in my pocket, and I will buy it. Then I will shoot the heck out of it.

The main thing I am a proponent of is the fact that no round is a one hit wonder most times. Shot placement counts for more than caliber. Though I carry 9 mm Mak, 9mm Luger, or .45 ACP due to the fact that I like the guns for a number of reasons. I shoot them well enough to know I would be more likely to shoot them well enough in a self defense situation to effectively defend myself.

Besides that I have not seen a holster that will allow me to carry a 105 mm self propelled concealed enough to stay within the law.
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Old November 9, 2012, 10:22 PM   #35
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I would choose to have a gun over nothing any day.
I wouldn't if it's a CZ52 with a worn safety and decocker . I still say the better solution is to get modern guns, with modern bullets and powder, to take a stab at improving the performance of the old Tok. I especially don't understand why CZ specifically never made a newer offering (they must not have had surplus left, either).

I keep waiting for S&W to co-opt it as a ".30 Auto-Magnum" or something...oh well

TCB
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Old November 10, 2012, 02:32 PM   #36
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Colefire Pistol 7.62X25 kicks.

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Old November 10, 2012, 02:57 PM   #37
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Round is good, it's the fact that most weapons that use it are 70+ years old.
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Old November 10, 2012, 04:45 PM   #38
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I can imagine myself trying to conceal that Colefire pistol. The image is hilarious, thanks for the giggle.
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Old November 10, 2012, 06:24 PM   #39
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Old November 11, 2012, 12:50 PM   #40
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We don't see any modern guns in it because the cartridge is too long.
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Old November 11, 2012, 10:13 PM   #41
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As I noted above, the Germans called it the Russian Ice Pick. The round wasn't know for doing a lot of damage to its target. The Germans felt their 9mm round was a much better stopper as it tended to do a lot more damage.
Is there some kind of documentation for this whole Russian Ice Pick business? I am not trying to be contrary or argumentative, I tried looking up the phrase "Russian Ice Pick," and Google yielded only 3 pages of results when the phrase is searched for in quotes, most results were about the Trotsky assassination (which I guess was done with literal ice pick), and none of the results seemed to be about 7.62x25 or WWII. If one drops the quotes and adds the word Tokarev, the only usage of the phrase "Russian Ice Pick" in reference to the Tokarev cartridge brings it back to this forum.
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Old November 11, 2012, 10:20 PM   #42
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Old November 11, 2012, 10:39 PM   #43
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i've heard the 5.45x39 was called the Russian poison dart by the Afghans on forums before and i could never find a result from google about that one either.
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Old November 11, 2012, 10:53 PM   #44
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Try searching using the terms: 5.45 poison bullet
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Old November 12, 2012, 02:34 AM   #45
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There are people that heard of the tokarev round on the internet and there are others that actually fired and own one.
I reload for the tokarev round with 100gr XTP that goes about 1550fps. That's about 533 ft/lbs of energy. If that is not a viable self defense round then what is? Forget the FMJ
Way less recoil than my glock 32 357 sig and about comparable recoil to my glock 19.
I much prefer the tokarev round compared to a 9mm if a modern handgun was to be developed for it.
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Old November 12, 2012, 03:07 AM   #46
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I've read an article on triage of gunshot wounds during the korean war. The field surgeon who wrote the article told of evaluation of soldiers who'd been hit by bursts from the PPSH SMG.
He said (near as I can remember) these were almost always a line of five or six entry and exit wounds, straight through. He would determine if more than one vital organ had been penetrated, or if a single organ was penetrated more than once, if so the wounded man was left to die, since the time required to patch up multiple hits or hits to more than one vital organ could cost the life of a less seriously wounded man who should be on the table.
The angle of the line of entrance wounds was the deciding factor.

An uncle was hit by a single round from a burst from a PPSH in the bottom of the foot at the heel, the bullet exiting the top of the foot. He was of course running for his life at the time. The scars left by the wound were impressive, but he suffered no permanent disability and walked without a limp.

A truncated cone hollow point would be my choice if I wanted to use the 7.62X25 for self defense.

Only reason I've never owned a Tokarev chambered pistol is that every pistol in this caliber that I've fired hit way low for me. Possibly because the first centerfire auto pistol I owned was a 1911.
9mm pistols hit low as well, but not nearly as much.
I'm more comfortable with a revolver.

PS
I can remember the "Russian Icepick" monicker from many years ago, the 60's at least.
I haven't heard the term used for decades.

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Old November 12, 2012, 04:57 AM   #47
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If the 327 magnum fits a certain niche, I don't see why an auto version like the 7.62x25 wouldn't. The only real hold up I can see is in a handgun to fit it. While the idea of a modern double stack 15 rd. or so pistol seems interesting it probably wouldn't work in most guns without modifying the frame.

What if we necked down a 10mm to 32 cal? I'd think it would have just as much-if not more- case capacity as a 7.62x25. Maybe even a 40 necked down, like a 357 Sig.
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Old November 12, 2012, 06:46 AM   #48
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"Real men carry a 44mag, no less."

I have some serious power options to carry. I carry a little .38 snub.

The only reason I don't carry my CZ-52 is because I have to qualify with each and every semi. TBS, I could qualify with one NAA mini 22lr revolver and be able to carry any revolver of any power of any size (BFR 40-75?) I want to here in NV!

My point is, I'd carry my CZ52 all day long, but I'd have to qualify it as an individual entity+$15 for each and every semi I want to carry, THANK YOU BRADY, not to mention a $25 tax for an each firearm you buy for the FBI to give conformation you can buy a gun in NV!

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Old November 12, 2012, 08:48 AM   #49
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While dumb, that makes more sense than Texas, which will allow you to carry wheel or slide if you qualify with a semi, but not if you qualify with a revolver (as though a glock is that much more complicated than a revolver)

TCB
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Old November 12, 2012, 09:08 AM   #50
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"Is there some kind of documentation for this whole Russian Ice Pick business?"

You might have better success using the German phrase, but I have no clue what that is any more.

A friend's Grandfather told me about the soldier's nickname for the 7.62x25. He was in the German Army during WW II and saw considerable action in Russia.
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