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Old November 5, 2012, 11:03 AM   #1
Archer 9505
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force on force training tools

Air soft?
Paint Ball?

Sim-munition? Well ya, but cost prohibitive.

Interested in recommendations for realistic (mimics size and shape of standard size pistols, carbines and shotguns). Provides reasonable accuracy under 25 yards. Is durable enough to withstand the roughhousing of high intensity training.

All that and Price IS an issue.
not looking for the cheapest but I am on a budget.
Thanks in advance.
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Old November 5, 2012, 12:11 PM   #2
Akimbo
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Paintballs can be easily seen but the assortment of full metal/polymer framed gas and co2 powered airsoft handguns is quite vast. There are replicas of Glock, Beretta, Dan Wesson, Colt, and just about all other popular manufacturers you can think of, and many of them are faithful to the real thing both in detail and dimensions/weight.

They can range in price from $60-$300, some recommended sites to check out are Airsoftmegastore.com, Pyramydair.com, and Redwolfairsoft.com

Good replicas of longguns exist but are much more limited.
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Old November 5, 2012, 12:17 PM   #3
gschoelles
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The best force on force I've used so far : http://simunition.com/en
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Old November 5, 2012, 01:34 PM   #4
Frank Ettin
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Simunition is the "gold standard", but it's expensive and they sell the gear only to instructors they have certified.

AFAIK, paintball guns are specially designed for the game and aren't available in the form of replicas of the real thing.

Quality airsoft is probably the best bet.
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Last edited by Frank Ettin; November 5, 2012 at 01:36 PM. Reason: clarify
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Old November 5, 2012, 03:10 PM   #5
Powderman
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Archer, I'd say a combination.

Issue airsoft to the officers. The aggressors can wear normal clothing, with eye protection.

Issue paintball guns for the aggressors. The officers wear full protective gear.

And for your building clearing and active shooter exercises, people are important as well. If you want to get the best training possible, find about three or four Infantrymen or Marines. Tell them don't go easy, either.

The more you sweat in peace, the less you'll bleed in combat.
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Old November 5, 2012, 05:24 PM   #6
zombietactics
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Just an opinion:

The value of FoF exercises lies primarily in a few areas ...
  • Recognition of a threat. Shoot vs. Non-Shoot scenarios. Well designed exercises get you broken out of that "it's always a shooting exercise" mindset.
  • Getting hit a lot and then learning how NOT to get hit ... survival isn't just a matter of how well you shoot.
  • Truly realistic movement and targets, complete with real non-targets.

Airsoft facilitates most of these handily. There is a greater opportunity for people to play that old "you missed me!" game, but everyone learns their lessons anyway.
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Old November 6, 2012, 05:30 PM   #7
Newton24b
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60 dollars can get you minimal airsoft protection, face mask, neck wrap, crotch protector.

two people do that, get a pound of trail boss put a small charge in the handgun case, put a thick overpowder wad on it fully seated. wont cycle a semi but youll get that "aw damn" moment of having to do a malfunction drill with someone coming at you.

yeah you shouldnt do that, but other then spending alot of money for simmunitions training and the actual ammo, you realy wont get REAL usable training.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; November 6, 2012 at 05:37 PM.
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Old November 6, 2012, 05:40 PM   #8
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton24b
...two people do that, get a pound of trail boss put a small charge in the handgun case, put a thick overpowder wad on it fully seated. wont cycle a semi but youll get that "aw damn" moment of having to do a malfunction drill with someone coming at you....
That is a truly lousy idea, and to suggest doing that is unconscionable.

A major requirement for any gear to be used for FoF training is that it be incapable of using live ammunition. To use real guns capable of chambering live rounds is beyond stupid.
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Old November 6, 2012, 08:25 PM   #9
Powderman
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Oh, HECK no.

While the sentiment is probably appreciated, you're asking for someone to get killed. NEVER use an actual firearm for training.

Extensive precautions must be taken with Simunitions. How many ways can something like the idea above go wrong?
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