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Old February 28, 2014, 05:42 PM   #1
RED_beard92
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22 ammo doesnt fit

I have a Smith and Wesson 617 and I am currently running factory bulk ammo from Winchester through it. Some of the bullets that I put into the cylinder slide right in while other rounds from the same box need nudged in, it seems like some rounds are swelled. Is this normal for bulk ammo, I never had a revolver .22 before so I never paid much mind to the shell casings.
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Old February 28, 2014, 06:18 PM   #2
mkl
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Perhaps one or more of your cylinder chambers has fouling in it. If .22 shorts have been shot very much, it is likely the case.

Give each chamber a good scrubbing with a phosphor bronze brush wet with a cleaning solution and see if that helps.
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Old February 28, 2014, 07:06 PM   #3
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Have you used a micrometer to check the rounds to see if they are different? So the rounds that are harder to insert in one chamber fit in others?

You don't say if the Smith is new to you or not - if not - any problems in the past with other brands of ammo?

I have had several 22 revolvers over the years where several of the chambers have been "tight". A little polishing compound run with a mop in a drill will polish them up. 22 ammo is basically dirty due to the waxy lube. Was your revolver cleaned well or had you shot quite a few rounds through it and then tried to use the ammo?

I can't speak for the "lot" of bulk ammo you were using - I suppose there is always a chance that some were out of spec. I've used a lot of Winchester over the years and really never have had any issues with it but who knows. Any problems I have had have either been due to the cylinder chamber needing a little polishing.

I did run in to a problem on a vintage Super Bearcat one time with sticky extraction of spent casings in several chambers. When I clean my revolvers, I usually finish with a lightly oiled patch trough the bore and the cylinder chambers - regardless of the caliber. On the Super Bearcat - it had sat long enough that I think what oil was in the cylinder chambers may have "settled" and the tolerances were such that it was causing a problem in making the spent casings extract without being "sticky" or "hard to push out". I just made a point to remember to make sure to run a dry patch through the bore and cylinders prior to shooting.
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Old February 28, 2014, 07:18 PM   #4
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Yep, I have had Winchesters fit tight in my Single Six too. I won't use them in my Mark II or GSG-1911. Now and then some won't seat at all (they were malformed though), others just take a bit more finger pressure to seat. Don't have that problem with Federal Bulk.
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Old February 28, 2014, 07:19 PM   #5
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Time to clean those chambers. The 617 is a very accurate revolver, but it tends to have tight chambers which need to stay clean if the rounds are to drop right in.
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Old February 28, 2014, 07:31 PM   #6
BigJimP
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Yes, I think its common with most of the bulk ammo .../ it happens on my model 617 and model 18 as well....( and my guns are always clean )....

CCI Mini Mag ammo is much higher quality ...and I have no issues with that ammo.
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Old February 28, 2014, 07:36 PM   #7
243winxb
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PRODUCT WARNING AND RECALL NOTICE

WINCHESTER® 22 Long Rifle RIMFIRE AMMUNITION

PRODUCT RECALL OF WINCHESTER 22 LONG RIFLE RIMFIRE AMMUNITION
1/28/2014

Olin Corporation, through its Winchester Division, is recalling two (2) lots of M*22™ 22 Long Rifle 40 Grain Black Copper Plated Round Nose rimfire ammunition.

Symbol Number: S22LRT
Lot Numbers: GD42L and GD52L http://www.winchester.com/library/ne...rt-recall.aspx
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Old February 28, 2014, 07:41 PM   #8
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Have you tried any other ammo in the gun?

I had recently bought my first .22lr revolver not to long ago as well. I bought some bulk armscor .22lr ammo for it as I have had good luck with their .38 special and 9mm ammo in the past. The armscor ammo was horrendous in my Ruger revolver, it would start to clog up the cylinder after only a few cylinder fulls of firing. They would get stuck, wouldn't go in.. it was frustrating to the max! Made me hate bringing the gun to the range. Then I finally happened to come across some Federal Champion .22lr at the LGS and bought a can of 325 rounds to try out. When I opened it up I could tell straight away that the ammo was shaped different. I took my Ruger to the range that weekend and put 175 rounds of the Federal through it with absolutely ZERO problems. The gun shot like a dream and now I love it!

Gave the Armscor away to a friend to see if it works in his gun (actually today). He's going this weekend to give a report. It may be that the throats in my Ruger are a bit tight and the Armscor's shape (more blunted then coned) may have been binding in the cylinder causing slag to build up while being forced through it ??? I don't know....

So, I would strongly suggest trying different ammo before doing anything to your gun (polishing, reaming cylinder or anything like that).
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Old February 28, 2014, 07:53 PM   #9
giaquir
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I have a whole coffee can of 22 lr that won't chamber.
the lead nose has oxidized or something increasing the diameter.
I can sand down the nose to get it to fit but I'll wait
until i absolutely have to.There doesn't look like the nose
was ever sealed to prevent this.
I don't know what manufacture these are and they're
down stairs in a cabinet.
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Old February 28, 2014, 11:23 PM   #10
RED_beard92
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My gun is very clean, I’m a bit of an attention to detail freak when it comes to my guns. The ammo I use is previous to the recall and I haven’t tried other ammo yet, I just got the gun not too long ago. Also if the round won’t fit in one cylinder chamber it won’t fit in any of them. This does lead me to believe that it’s a shell casing issue. I was just wandering if others have had previous issues in the past like how I am experiencing now... Which I see that some have.
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Old March 1, 2014, 04:08 AM   #11
Misssissippi Dave
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I have seen .22 ammo vary quite a bit from one type to another. CCI and Federal seem to be more consistent along with Wolf. Winchester is one brand I won't buy again. They varied too much and gave me problems. I have used plenty of center fire Winchester ammo and don't even think twice about getting more. Remington ammo can be hit or miss but I prefer it over Winchester in .22. I'm not crazy about Remington ammo in center fire calibers. I find there cases don't last as long for reloading as Winchester and Federal cases do.

I suggest trying some different ammo. When you get a round that is tight like you have, try to see if it is only tight in certain chambers. Pull it out and try a different hole. This should tell you if you might have a cylinder with some variation that could easily be fixed by any good gun smith. If the pistol is new I'm pretty certain you could send it back to be corrected under warranty. I found the differences in .22 ammo to affect semi-auto pistols a lot more than revolvers. Those same size differences do affect revolvers just to a lesser extent.
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Old March 1, 2014, 07:58 AM   #12
micromontenegro
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The 617 is a precision revolver with thight chamers that likes precision ammo. What you are experiencing is totally normal IMHO.
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Old March 1, 2014, 10:02 AM   #13
Rifleman1776
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Quote:
seems like some rounds are swelled. Is this normal for bulk ammo
In a word: NO
I use a lot of bulk .22lr ammo and have never seen that condition. I would look to the cylinders first for the source of this problem.
I'll admit, bulk ammo can sometimes be light on the charge. It will not always cycle carry size pocket pistols which are notorious for heavy slide springs. It functions perfectly in my Ruger 10/22. It has proven quite accurate in a target rifle I once had, a Ruger Standard and my Single Six.
I am bothered by your "seems like" comment. You should investigate theat suspicion with a micrometer.
Methinks the gun is the source of your problem.
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Old March 1, 2014, 11:11 AM   #14
SteelChickenShooter
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I am at odds with some because I disagree and regard the OP condition as normal. I say this because I have found the same to be true in my 617. A number of rounds drop in while others need a little finger push.
It happens that I once did an awful lot of test shooting as well as taking weights & measures for several dozen different boxes of 22LR. And I did find more deviation from the norm than one might expect. So to me those bullets on the high side of mean would be a little snug. In a different project, I had a Winchester .22LR Wildcat get caught sideways in one of my semi-auto rifles. When the bolt slammed home, it fired the rimfire and the blast went down through the magazine. That prompted me to do another round of weights & measures focused on just those rounds pulled from a single box of 50 out of a brick. I placed a good number of them side by side on a large optical comparator and the results were quite telling. Compared to brands of known quality, the Winchester rounds were sub-standard as far as I was concerned.
Oh, one more thing: no harm done by taking a bronze brush with a small patch and some Flitz metal polish and work on those cylinders a bit. I've done that in a couple of my revolvers over the years. Gripping that brush in a small electric drill makes quick work out of it, and you may get some improvement as to how the rounds drop in. I just do normal cleaning on my 617 and never thought I needed to polish out the cylinders.

Last edited by SteelChickenShooter; March 1, 2014 at 11:30 AM.
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Old March 1, 2014, 01:18 PM   #15
mkl
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Since you state that fouling is not the problem, I'd try the micrometer approach suggested by bedbugbilly. Measure one that fits versus one that does not. Bet you find the problem is with the ammo. Perhaps someone on this forum has access to reference the SAAMI data giving maximum dimensions for a .22LR case.
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Old March 1, 2014, 02:16 PM   #16
Super Sneaky Steve
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Check for burs in the chamber, look at your fired brass after extraction and look for gouges.

If it's the same holes that are tight regardless of ammo you might have a tight chamber. I've had these before.

I just opened it up a bit with some sandpaper and a cleaning rod.
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Old March 1, 2014, 02:21 PM   #17
SteelChickenShooter
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Before making any conclusions, it would be best to use a micrometer accurate to .0001 instead of the common +/- .001.
I find a digital caliper accurate to .0005" as being good enough.
Not only is it good for diameter, it's good for overall length too.
Additionally, as in any machine or manufacturing process, we have stamped, molded and machined parts.
It's called "stack-up". You take a cylinder at the low side of tolerance, and a bullet at the high side of tolerance- and you have a snug fit.
Not a real troubling thing, just something as a normal result.

Last edited by SteelChickenShooter; March 1, 2014 at 02:34 PM.
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Old March 1, 2014, 06:37 PM   #18
RED_beard92
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I've got it

I got a box of federal bulk ammo and those 22 longs slid right in like deer guts on a door knob. I don’t own a micrometer so I never measured the shell size but I am certain that it was the Winchester ammo. Thanks guys for all the help.
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Old March 3, 2014, 08:33 PM   #19
ratshooter
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I have an old model 34 with the flat latch. The chambers are very tight and some bulk ammo is a tight fit and needs to be seated by hand. CCI mini mags always drop in with no resistance.

There have been several threads where posters complain about Ruger single sixes having barrels sized for 22 mags and are oversize for 22LR. The 22 mag measures .224. In therory 22lr is .223. I have miked about 6 different 22 rounds and all measured .224 to .225 in diameter. So a tight fit in your S&W is not a surprise at all.
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Old March 4, 2014, 12:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
and those 22 longs slid right in
Grrrrr..just a bit like fingernails on a blackboard. I'm bustin' your chops here just a little bit Red_beard but I'm sure you meant '22 long rifles' in your post.

In my younger days at the hardware store we could buy shorts, longs and long rifles. If you had the bucks, you'd probably get the long rifles unless you had a tubular magazine rifle then you'd get the shorts so you could get more rounds in the rifle. Although like I said if you were mostly broke you could save a few cents by buying shorts.

Target shooting on a range we found the shorts to be almost as accurate as the long rifles but the longs were definitely less accurate than the shorts or long rifle rounds. Shrug...your mileage may vary.

PS The 617 is a gun I would really like to own. Congratulations on your purchase. You'll be able to shoot it for years and years and then you can pass it on to your kids who will be able to do the same.
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Old March 4, 2014, 12:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
...I am certain that it was the Winchester ammo.
Not a big fan of the Winchester bulk-packed .22LR. I find it's marginally better than the Remington bulk-packed stuff which is still not saying much.

In the bulk-packed .22LR, I prefer the Federal. It seems to give the best results in my firearms.
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Old March 4, 2014, 01:57 PM   #22
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I've found that the Winchester bulk .22 lr is about the only round my 617 does not like. After shooting 100 rounds of it I have to scrape the lead off the top of the strap above the forcing cone as the cylinder no longer wants to turn freely due to lead build up. ONLY Winchester .22 lr rounds spray lead out between the forcing cone and cylinder. With .22 lr so hard to find you get to feed what you can find. I will try my best to stay away from Winchester and Remington rounds.
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Old March 5, 2014, 12:22 AM   #23
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[QUOTEThe 617 is a precision revolver with thight chamers that likes precision ammo. What you are experiencing is totally normal IMHO. ][/QUOTE]

If you say so, mine could have used more precision on the action, no where the precision my 24 year old M-17 has. Every .22 I've used chambered without a problem even after shooting shorts in it. I love my 617 but mine needed attention to the action so it didn't feel like a Fred Flintstone revolver

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Old March 5, 2014, 02:19 PM   #24
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17s are in a league of their own

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