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Old November 4, 2012, 01:04 PM   #1
dbuffington
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RCBS Pro 2000 APS Problem?

Hi Folks!

My fun for this cloudy weekend has been to set up my new RCBS Pro 2000. It's a lovely piece of kit, and it seems to be working very well, with one exception ...

I can't get the APS feed strips to feed reliably. Sometimes it doesn't seem to advance the strips at all. Sometimes it feeds them partially, leading to primer jams, etc.

As suggested by GWS and others in an earlier thread (http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...t=pro+2000+aps), I've tried pushing the strip in one click (as opposed to two clicks as indicated in the instructions). I've tried drawing the strip back a bit. No luck.

One suspicion ... The auto index cam bracket was not fixed in place when I received the machine, and I had to adjust it manually, without benefit of the RCBS gages mentioned in the instructions. However, I was able to adjust it myself to rotate and index the shell holder properly.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Dave
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Old November 4, 2012, 06:44 PM   #2
GWS
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DON'T pull the strips backward at all....that will break something. RCBS's warning is not to be ignored. They will replace the parts you break free...however. Hope by "drawing back" you have broke something.

The first suggestion is to make sure all the primers in the strips are flush with the strip edge. lays several strips together on a flat surface (anvil side up) and slide (or roll) something with a flat surface across the strips to push any primers flush that are sticking up. I use a wall paper roller, but the edge of a ruler works just as well.

The next thing is to be aware that moving the press handle toward the bench lifts a primer. Even a little moves a primer so it can catch and jam. If that happens just push the primer back down with an allen wrench, dowel, .223 bullet, whatever.

That's usually the only learning curve for the APS system. Once you learn the curve, you won't want to go back to tubes.

I made two simple mods to take the primers off line and prevent the press handle from moving into priming mode when you don't want. Takes a couple of hours and a trip to Ace/Home Depot. Here's the Link.

The Pro 2000 is simpler by far than any other progressive....synching problems just don't happen once it's set up the first time. So if it came to you loose, and you have synching problems, email RCBS and get the guages to set it up right. Pay attention to the primer cup centering in the hole in the shell plate...especially small primers. If they don't center you may have to get RCBS to send you another shell plate base. There have been 2 instances of that in the last 4 years that I know about. Rare, but it happens.

Any other problems?...holler.

P.S. I've found that preloaded strips from CCI don't have "non-flush" primers. (at least what I seen) I notice that they are pushed in further than the strip loader pushes them. RCBS could easily put dimples on the plastic part that presses the primers in, and do the same thing.

In that light, I found that if I rub a glass marble over the holes it recesses them too. That has inspired a future project.... making a simple gizmo with a spring and a marble where I can push strips through one after another. Maybe even mounted to the end of the strip loader. Anyway I digress. That's a non problem with preloaded strips, or freshly "rolled" strips.
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Last edited by GWS; November 4, 2012 at 07:05 PM.
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Old November 4, 2012, 07:08 PM   #3
dbuffington
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Quote:
The first suggestion is to make sure all the primers in the strips are flush with the strip edge.
They should be flush with the upper edge. Correct?

Quote:
The next thing is to be aware that moving the press handle toward the bench lifts a primer.
Understood, and to avoid that problem, I attempted to run an empty strip through. No go.

Quote:
I made two simple mods to take the primers off line and prevent the press handle from moving into priming mode when you don't want. Takes a couple of hours and a trip to Ace/Home Depot. Here's the Link.
That, by the way, is a very cool "repurposing" of other materials.

Just one thought, can the same thing be accomplished by removing the primer pin assembly?

Quote:
The Pro 2000 is simpler by far than any other progressive...
It seems that way, and I really like the ease of changing calibers. The machining is excellent, and the fit and finish is quite good. Indeed, I suspect my problem with the APS is a simple adjustment issue, BUT it would help if the instructions had a troubleshooting section. For that matter, the instructions appear to be the weakest part of the whole product.

Quote:
So if it came to you loose, and you have synching problems, email RCBS and get the guages to set it up right.
Done.

Many thanks!
Dave
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Old November 4, 2012, 11:42 PM   #4
higgite
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For what it's worth, my experience with the Pro 2000 and RCBS service is give them a call and they will walk you through troubleshooting, adjustments and repairs, if possible, on the phone.
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Old November 5, 2012, 08:25 AM   #5
dbuffington
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There's a bit of a timing problem with my work schedule and RCBS being on the West Coast, but I'll try to do that. Thanks!
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Old November 5, 2012, 08:54 PM   #6
GWS
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Quote:
Understood, and to avoid that problem, I attempted to run an empty strip through. No go.
That being the case you may have to take the primer feed apart and hope there's just a stuck primer in there and not a broken piece hanging it up. That will set you back a few days until RCBS sends you the fix.

Got to take my wife to a movie....when I get back, I will answer the rest of your post. 10pm-ish. Mountain time.
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Old November 5, 2012, 09:26 PM   #7
dbuffington
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Quote:
That being the case you may have to take the primer feed apart and hope there's just a stuck primer in there ...
Yup. That was it. I couldn't see it until I pulled out an inspection mirror and really looked through the shell plate.

And, by the way, you don't have to take the primer feed apart to get a stuck primer out. I just removed the shell plate, loosened the primer with a small pick, and then sucked it out with a vacuum cleaner.

Just remember to remove the detent ball and spring before you do that.

Quote:
Got to take my wife to a movie....when I get back, I will answer the rest of your post. 10pm-ish. Mountain time.
You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman, but don't waste the after-movie time on me
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Old November 6, 2012, 12:41 AM   #8
GWS
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Quote:
The first suggestion is to make sure all the primers in the strips are flush with the strip edge. They should be flush with the upper edge. Correct?
It's the sharp edge on the anvil side sticking up that can catch and jam (yes upper if the strip is inserted). So getting that edge flush or below flush makes APS pretty much flawless.

On the APS mods:
Quote:
Just one thought, can the same thing be accomplished by removing the primer pin assembly?
Yes and no.
First the no. Mod one stops the advance of the strips...that means you can take off from where you are on the strip, later when you need to continue from some kind of temporary stoppage. You can also pull the strip out....that's what most users do, but then you've got to find your place on the strip or refill it....and I use to do that...a part-filled strip is a slowdown. You CAN stick a carved popsicle stick into the APS hole and do the same thing as mod 1....but that's not so elegant, as handy, or as ready.

Yes, Mod 2 could be done by unscrewing the primer cup. But again not as handy, ready, or nearly as fast. Mod 2 stops movement of the press handle from going into the primer rise, mechanically. That keeps primers from rising just like removing the primer rod.....but that'll never be necessary if mod 2 is just a hand twist away. BTW RCBS's answer if you ask is..."remove the primer strip" and that works too.....it's just that getting a half used strip back in the same spot, though doable, is one of the few weaknesses of the system. Mod 2 makes that totally unnecessary.

Quote:
BUT it would help if the instructions had a troubleshooting section. For that matter, the instructions appear to be the weakest part of the whole product.
I won't argue that point. RCBS does two things less than stellar.....marketing.....and documentation. That's why, for the last four years I've said that this press is a best kept secret especially for those who want to load more than 1 caliber a night...then there's the documentation. That seems to be industry wide, like computer software documentation isn't done well by programmers, reloading documentation isn't done well by manufacturers. Reloading manufacturers, in general, don't realize that super documentation available to everyone on Google, can go a long way to sell their products to researching buyers. Researching buyers are smart buyers.

I'm pleased that you found your way past the APS problem so easily. Happy loading!!
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Last edited by GWS; November 6, 2012 at 03:06 PM.
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Old November 6, 2012, 08:24 AM   #9
dbuffington
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Thanks! Stay tuned.
Dave
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Old November 9, 2012, 10:08 PM   #10
codefour
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Once again, GWS comes through with all the required information regarding the Pro 2000. He has helped me as well. Thanks GWS..

Just a quick note, I believe the Pro 2000 is the strongest progressive in its price range and the APS strips are so simple and easy. I do NOT know why they are not more popular. I hated pecking tubes..! I just buy them all preloaded from Powder Valley Inc.

The Pro 2000 is just a simple press but well designed press. I believe in KISS.
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Old November 13, 2012, 08:24 PM   #11
dbuffington
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Just an update ...

This evening, I nervously tried my first genuine production run with the Pro 2000, loading 50 rounds of 300 Blackout.

I had a bit of trouble at first. Somehow, another loose primer found its way into the strip feed mechanism, but once I blew the loose primer out, the mechanism worked fine.

And once I developed a process -- bullet, case, lever down, lever in -- and a matching rhythm, all was well.

I ended up with 49 good looking rounds. One, however, got the primer in sideways. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Still, I'm calling it a success Thanks to GWS and all of you for your help!

Enjoy!
Dave
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Old November 16, 2012, 12:19 AM   #12
GWS
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Both problems are usually due to an interruption in rhythm where you leave a primer loose above the strip and not inserted. Be careful not to let the press handle go past neutral and end up pushing a primer up when you don't want it up. Learning curve. Pay special attention to this when using small primers, because they are easier to get turned than large primers.
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Old November 16, 2012, 08:55 AM   #13
dbuffington
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Quote:
Both problems are usually due to an interruption in rhythm ...
My wife could say a word or two about my rhythm problems
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Old November 16, 2012, 11:12 AM   #14
GWS
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Learning Curve too.
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