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Old November 12, 2012, 05:13 PM   #1
SEHunter
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What 500 yard scope

What power do most use to shoot at 300+ yards? I have read posts where people are getting sub moa groups at 500+ yards. What power of scope does it take to shoot this far?

Dont get me wrong, i do not expect to shoot like that because i dont have the grade of gun or skills to shoot that way but my point is what power scope makes that possible? I have a 4x12 Leo but there is no way i could use a target any smaller that a deer or coyote past 250 or 300 yards because the cross hair would cover it up.
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Old November 12, 2012, 09:00 PM   #2
Zhillsauditor
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Quote:
I have read posts where people are getting sub moa groups at 500+ yards. What power of scope does it take to shoot this far?
Moa at 500 yards is a circle with a radius of 5", or a 10" group.

I haven't shot much at long distance, but when I do I use a Zeiss Conquest 4-14x44, set at ~8.25x for 168gr 308.
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Old November 12, 2012, 09:27 PM   #3
Slamfire
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I ask what scopes people use at our local long range matches. Be it 600 yards or 1000 yards the most common scope magnification is 20X to 24X. I shot with a 6X scope at 1000 yards and the marking spotter was indistinct and it was difficult to quarter the ten ring. I am using a 20X and I can see plenty. I have not taken any of my 16X scopes out, but I think you could see very well with any magnification from 16 to 20X.

High magnification can be a disadvantage as the image gets darker and the ills effects of mirage actually make things less distinct. Many times I have seen the bullet hole only when I dial down the magnification. Also, guys who use 32X + scope have a tendency to cross fire because the field of view is so limited and they forget to check each shot to see that they are on their target.

Weaver T series (T-20, T-24, etc) scopes are very popular based on cost. The shooters using them tell me they are clear and have repeatable clicks.
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Old November 12, 2012, 09:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
I have a 4x12 Leo but there is no way i could use a target any smaller that a deer or coyote past 250 or 300 yards because the cross hair would cover it up.
Disregarding all other factors that effect accuracy... you can, potentially, shoot sub minute groups with your 4X12... or even less magnification for that matter.
As you've sort of figured out, it's all a matter of your target working with your reticle. If your reticle grossly subtends the target, you'll have a tough time positioning the reticle in exactly the same spot on target... but if you have a target that works with your reticle rather than against it, you can produce a consistent, fairly precise hold.

Example. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that your standard crosshair reticle subtends 10" at 500 yds. What would work nicely is a 12 or perhaps 14 inch, white crosshair target with a thick contrasting outline. With the reticle centered, you have a crisp, white border that the eye can easily "square up" or center on consistently.
When you shoot a group at 100 yds, you (probably) aren't aiming at the previous bullet hole, you're aiming at a reference. The only difference is that at 500 or more yards, you need a different reference to be accurate.

Imagine the target below... but the bars of the crosshair are 12" wide.



I use a 50X with an 1/16" dot/crosshair for 100-300 yd benchrest... but to be competitive, I'm trying to shoot 1/10th MOA or less, so I have to be able to split very fine hairs. For anything that isn't competition, I seldom use more that a 20X variable scope.

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Old November 13, 2012, 08:14 AM   #5
SEHunter
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Hmm, that makes perfect sense. I have to admit, I always wondered why those style targets looked that way but it should have been obvious. You worded it very well, its all about having a visible reference. Think I will get a square and ruler and make up some ot those targets and then see how my scope performs before I go shopping.
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Old November 13, 2012, 09:13 AM   #6
Jim Watson
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Quote:
Moa at 500 yards is a circle with a radius of 5", or a 10" group.
Not where I shoot. A minute of angle hereabouts represents a circle with a DIAMETER of approximately 5 inches at 500 yards.

I really doubt Creeper is shooting in the "teens" on a hardware store sight in target as illustrated. It is printed for convenience with a hunting rifle. I get what he says about the simplicity of alignment but you don't get that where score is kept.

I agree with Slamfire and Creeper. Good target shooting is done with high magnification scopes. I do not understand the frequent recommendations for 3-9 and 10X scopes on inanimate targets at considerable ranges. Those are for hunters and snipers with entirely different needs.
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Old November 13, 2012, 10:12 AM   #7
Zhillsauditor
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Quote:
A minute of angle hereabouts represents a circle with a DIAMETER of approximately 5 inches at 500 yards.
Oops, sorry about that. Teach me to post after a long veterans day.
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Old November 13, 2012, 06:49 PM   #8
Catfish
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12X is plenty of scope to reach way past 500 yrds. I took a deer at 289 yrds with a 2 1/2 X soope. I shoot a fair amount of longer range, 500 to 700 yrds with a couple of different rifles. Any scope will work from the bench, but for hunting you will need target knobs on the scope. You will alos need to buy the best range finder you can afford and work up a drop chart. My 6-284 with 70 gr. bullets moveing at 3,700 fps will drop 12 1/2 in. between 400 and 500 yrds. Between 500 and 600 yrds. it drops 16 1/2 in. so you need to know your range and how much to dial up your scope.
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Old November 13, 2012, 08:41 PM   #9
SEHunter
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good advice. I have memorized a few of the ballistic tables in the Hornady manual for several of my guns and the bullet weights i shoot but its probably safer to do as you say.
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