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Old October 16, 2012, 09:46 AM   #1
StainlessSteel215
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When you fully commit to a (loaded) carry lifestyle

I'm still warming up to this notion....that my firearm fully becomes part of my daily routine everywhere I go, except my workplace because I cant. I carry about 75% of the time but cant seem to commit 100%. I have a mental stigma attached to carrying ALL the time. For instance when I take my 1 year old the the local playground (my neighborhood is very low crime), family get togethers, etc. I talk myself out of it because I assure myself there is no need to carry there.

Anyways I find myself having a lot of internal conflict over this argument...which is WHEN DO I LEAVE IT AT HOME? I am finding that I am basically setting rules for myself so I dont question the same darn scenarios over and over....week after week.

For those of you out there who carry 24/7 is there EVER truly a time that you say to yourself there is no need to pack your sidearm...other than sleeping and showering?

Also, I cannot move beyond my comfort level of having my firearm loaded with a round chambered. I carry my G26 which obviously has no external safety....just a trigger safety and common sense. I have convinced myself that taking a second to rack the slide in a situation doesnt weigh as strong as having an accident with a loaded pistol.

I would like to be as comfortable and safe as possible while carrying. Anyone have advice to weigh in with on either side? Does it basically boil down to personal comfort...or is there a STRONG opinion as to why a person should carry a loaded, chambered pistol 24/7?
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Old October 16, 2012, 10:15 AM   #2
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Carrying Israeli style (empty chamber, loaded mag) is a bad idea for one big reason. If your weak hand is immobilized it will be impossible to rack the slide one handed.

I have thought many times that it was unnecessary to carry in certain places, but I do anyway. Often, places we perceive as the safest are actually the most dangerous because our guard is down. The only times I don't carry are where it is illegal or if I intend to consume alcohol. That's it.

Is your inhibition to carrying one in the the chamber due to the perceived lack of safety on the Glock? I can assure you they are very safe, however you may be best served with a model with a decocker or safety.
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Old October 16, 2012, 10:25 AM   #3
StainlessSteel215
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I hear ya Ben, I suppose I am looking for more affirmations like the one you just made about assuming NOWHERE is "too safe" to carry to help my stigma about carrying 24/7 (execpt work). Its a very difficult mental block to overcome for me. Im a 6+ year shooter...not a beginner at this point but far from seasoned...and only in the last 2-3 years have become more active, dedicated to carrying, and improving as a prepared shooter in various situations. I used to just keep my guns locked up in a safe 6 days out of the week and bring it out for range trips. So, Ive come a long way in the last 2-3 years.

Its not that I dont trust my Glock trigger, or my holster, or my own judgement, I just cant get beyond the thought of having a round chambered sitting at my hip in general.

Ive tried it a few times and I tend to fixate on it....making me lose focus on other things. Is it just a time & acquired practice sort of ability to do this? I struggle with both scenarios every single day.
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Old October 16, 2012, 10:26 AM   #4
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I never leave my property without a loaded pistol, usually a P-11 with 13, plus i have a truck rifle.
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Old October 16, 2012, 10:34 AM   #5
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The best advice I can give is to just load it one day and promise yourself you'll leave it that way for at least 48 hours. I'm guessing that by the end of that period your anxiety will have diminished substantially. That's my best idea. Others on here may have other ways that have worked for them or someone they know.
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Old October 16, 2012, 10:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
For instance when I take my 1 year old the the local playground (my neighborhood is very low crime), family get togethers, etc. I talk myself out of it because I assure myself there is no need to carry there.
Crime does not follow a schedule and knows no boundaries. Crime can happen any place and at any time. I prefer to not roll the dice, so I carry when ever and where ever I can. The old cliché "When you only have seconds, the police are just minutes away" is worth considering when deciding on your commitment to your self sufficiency and personal protection. "Low crime" does not equal "no crime".

Quote:
I have convinced myself that taking a second to rack the slide in a situation doesnt weigh as strong as having an accident with a loaded pistol.
I know many people who carry Israeli style. I believe the opposite in terms of risk management. I personally carry condition one because I am not in the habit of drawing my weapon from it's holster and re-holstering when I am carrying.

I believe that Israeli style can become an issue because of the possibility that I may be in a position where I may not have time to rack the slide or I may not have the free hand to do it. Sure, I can 'hook' my rear sights on my belt or pocket to facilitate racking the slide, but that could be problematic if my free arm/hand is injured or if I am otherwise fending off an attacker with my free hand. I prefer condition one carry because all I need to do in that kind of a situation is draw and fire my weapon.
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Old October 16, 2012, 10:37 AM   #7
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Much of life in general is a gamble. The same is true regarding this issue. Odds are that you will never need your sidearm. Is it possible, yes; probable, no. Whether you decide to carry all of the time or not depends on how you like those odds.

There are many places I don't carry. I'm willing to accept the possibility and probability that I mentioned above. Others don't, and carry all of the time.

Are some of the folks that carry all of the time paranoid, nuts, or hoping to have an opportunity to use their sidearm? Sure, but I believe that they are in the minority. Heck, some folks here admit to carrying in their bathroom and/or shower. Most who carry simply want to be prepared for any eventuality, even if the odds of it occuring are miniscule.

I don't believe there is a right or wrong regarding when to carry. Just different degrees of comfort for various individuals.
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Old October 16, 2012, 10:49 AM   #8
StainlessSteel215
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Good posts, thanks. Ive struggled with this anxiety for years and still cannot come to grips with a solid answer. Obviously I get way more anxiety about a chambered round in my Glock than deciding WHEN to carry. I like the 48 hour idea to move beyond my anxiety....and learn to trust myself and my Glock 100%. Its not one or the other, its both I guess.

All I know is that Im a guy who subscribes to the idea that anything can happen, anywhere, even if its not probable. Thats why Im making an effort and seeking advice from guys who commit to this lifestyle 100%. That being said, I use excuses such as low crime areas and family gatherings to have reason to lock it up for the time being.

So, I would certainly like to make a stronger effort to carry more often. Then, Ill work on having a fully loaded firearm while carrying. Thats why I appreciate the feedback on here...I only have 2 buddies who own and (occasionally) carry guns so its hard to get actual feedback from their experiences.
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Old October 16, 2012, 11:08 AM   #9
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SS215, that 1-year-old is reason enough to carry 24/7. With that said, I went through some of the same processes when I first started carrying. First, I carried when I thought "I needed to," such as when I'd be working late downtown. Then I realized that folks do get robbed in broad daylight, even if it's less common than in the dead of night. I also realized that I rarely had my daughter downtown in the dead of night, but often had her with me during the day. So I started carrying (almost) full-time.

Then there was the issue of whether to carry with one in the chamber. I, too, was uncomfortable with that for a while. However, there's a youtube video out there somewhere that demonstrates how long it takes to chamber a round when one is under attack. It isn't pretty, and that's assuming that you have full use of both hands. Still, I carried without one in the chamber for a while. Once I got used to that, I stepped up to carrying with one in the chamber.

IOW, I think what you're doing can be seen as a natural progression. Folks that have never carried are unlikely to walk out one day, buy a Glock, 3 extra mags, holsters, strap it all on and go to the grocery store. I think the 48-hour suggestion is a good one. Perhaps when the 1-year-old is off with other relatives? That way, you can do the "Loaded 48 Hours" without so much worry about him. Oh, and make sure your holster is in good shape, so that there's nothing to get shoved into the trigger guard when holstering or sitting.
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Old October 16, 2012, 11:17 AM   #10
sigcurious
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Quote:
Its not that I dont trust my Glock trigger, or my holster, or my own judgement, I just cant get beyond the thought of having a round chambered sitting at my hip in general.
I don't think any of us can identify specifically what makes you uncomfortable, but if you're able to do that it will likely go a long way to you being comfortable with the idea.

Another way to consider the condition 1 vs Israeli or ND vs perceived safety. You are in complete control of having or not having an ND while carrying condition 1. If something happens, 99.99%(yes it is a made up number, but it illustrates the point) of the time it was you. The remaining tiny fraction of a chance would fall under true AD, which with a glock(or most modern pistols) so many things would have to happen for that to even be possible. Conversely, you have almost no control of the time/place/manner in which you may need to use your pistol. Which seems riskier? Trusting yourself to follow the guidelines of carrying safely, or hoping that if you need to defend yourself and/or your family you'll be able to rack the slide?

Last edited by sigcurious; October 16, 2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Old October 16, 2012, 11:26 AM   #11
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Nothing safer than a 642 DA revolver. I love carrying mine, but cylinder can dig in a little bit.
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Old October 16, 2012, 11:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Also, I cannot move beyond my comfort level of having my firearm loaded with a round chambered.
This is largely a training issue. With time, it will hopefully become second nature.

If you're still unsure, have someone demonstrate the Tueller drill for you. That split-second it takes to load the gun can make all the difference.
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Old October 16, 2012, 11:53 AM   #13
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I wouldn't say I'm "fully committed" to carrying 24/7. Most days I slip a 38 in my pocket, same time as my keys and wallet. At the end of the day I hang my pants on the bed post. The next morning, my day starts all over again. I really don't give it any thought unless there's a problem.

When my wife, kids, or other family members are around, I wouldn't think of putting it away. I'm more inclined to carry to protect them than to protect myself.
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Old October 16, 2012, 12:11 PM   #14
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I normally carry a .38 special during the day and Springfield Armory XD 45 at night. The XD always has one in the chamber. There is an infamous video of a jeweler who pulls a semi-auto on a robber and never gets a shot off because there was no round in the chamber and the safety was on. The jeweler was shot several times by the robber, but fortunately survived. One must understand that pistols like Glocks, Springfield Armory's XD series, Kahrs, and some others are designed to be carried with one in the chamber. Similar to a revolver, the only way these semi-autos can be fired, is if the trigger is pulled. I went through a similar internal conflict about whether or not to carry with one in the chamber. I finally concluded that given the stress that will come with a real life armed robbery attempt, that fractions of seconds may be the difference between life or death. Ultimately, you have to choose what is best for you.
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Old October 16, 2012, 12:35 PM   #15
StainlessSteel215
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SOLID feedback everyone, I appreciate it. Hearing these personal stories and experienced testimonials helps me gain a bit more understanding and confidence to trust myself and my carry system for the remaining 25% of the time I that make excuses NOT to carry.

As for chambering a round while carrying...I think I'm sold on the notion of a high stress situation and how a simple slide rack can go wrong once you get a dose of adrenaline and stress.

Makes me realize there is absolutely no point to own and carry a firearm if I cannot defend myself or others in a real situation. A damaged weak hand or failure under stress to rack the slide could prove deadly for sure. Im making a strong effort from this day forward to maintain the best carry system and skills needed to neutralize a bad situation as fast as possible. You guys rock!
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Old October 16, 2012, 12:59 PM   #16
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I have a mental stigma attached to carrying ALL the time. For instance when I take my 1 year old the the local playground (my neighborhood is very low crime), family get togethers, etc. I talk myself out of it because I assure myself there is no need to carry there.
This is nonsense, the whole point of carrying should be to protect yourself and your family, how are you going to do so with your carry gun sitting in the night stand. There's no way to predict when trouble will happen, and trying to rationalize with yourself when and where it will is a waste of time. All those innocent people in the movie theater a couple months back sure as hell didn't expect a wild gunman to shoot the place up, but it happened. Carry whenever you legally can, otherwise your means to protect yourself are out the window.

Quote:
Also, I cannot move beyond my comfort level of having my firearm loaded with a round chambered. I carry my G26 which obviously has no external safety....just a trigger safety and common sense. I have convinced myself that taking a second to rack the slide in a situation doesn't weigh as strong as having an accident with a loaded pistol.
Your problem is you selected a platform you are not comfortable with. I myself do not like Glocks for the reason that their is no external saftey or a double action trigger, the gun to me is unsafe, but if others feel comfortable with it then more power to them. Also that second you take to rack the slide is enough for someone to lunge in and stab you, or draw and fire. Pulling that unloaded pistol out to rack it is opening yourself up as a main target since you are armed.

Quote:
I would like to be as comfortable and safe as possible while carrying. Anyone have advice to weigh in with on either side? Does it basically boil down to personal comfort...or is there a STRONG opinion as to why a person should carry a loaded, chambered pistol 24/7?
My recommendation, sell the Glock and pick something up with either an external saftey or a double action trigger since you obviously don't feel safe carrying the glock with a round in the chamber. Glocks have really good resale value so you wont take much of a loss selling it. Also make sure you get something you can easily and comfortably conceal day in and day out otherwise it will sit at home. For those times you cant legally carry, get one of those cable lock boxes and lock it to under the seat of your car that way you still have access to a firearm.

Last edited by Dragline45; October 16, 2012 at 01:07 PM.
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:12 PM   #17
StainlessSteel215
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Thanks Drag, but I am a very loyal Glock fan and will work through my issues with time and practice. I didnt pick this gun for CC because it looks pretty
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:13 PM   #18
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Re when you carry: You are attempting to predict something that you have already admitted is unpredictable. By deciding to carry at all, you are saying that you can be a crime victim at a time and place you don't expect it, otherwise you would not go there at that time. Telling yourself there are times and places where you are invulnerable is an illogical reversal of your prior reasoning.

Re carrying chambered: I, too, carry a G26, and I have for about 3-1/2 years. (I previously carried a revolver.) In all the times that you have carried chamber empty, has it ever gone click? Have you ever unholstered it to find that the trigger was in the rear position? I can tell you that mine never has - because I carry chambered I would definitely know it.

There is no reason that you can't carry chamber empty until you trust yourself and your handgun. People who say that the gun is useless in that condition are engaging in hyperbole; the fact of the matter is that there are many types of holsters - tuck holsters, ankle holsters, belly bands, and kangaroo-style holsters, to name a few - that also either require two hands or delay the presentation as much as racking the slide. None of those methods of carry receive the same kind of criticism as empty-chamber carry on boards like this one. But it is equally undeniable that your firearm is most accessible with the least chance of delayed presentation by carrying it chambered. If you are carrying in a well-maintained holster that covers the trigger, the Glock 26 is safe to carry in that manner.
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:30 PM   #19
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I have my P220r on my side all day everyday. If I am walking through my house it is tucked in my holster. It is not being paranoid, it is being prepared. I will not be caught without it in a time of need. As far as safe places, there are no places safe enough for me to not have added protection for me and my family. I carry mine loaded and never think twice. This is however, the reason I carry a SA/DA pistol. I like having a hammer for my personal preference.
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:42 PM   #20
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I also suggest the Tueller drill. There is no better drill to demonstrate how little time you have in a self-defense situation.

You are reacting to some threat.
You are out of time.
You have to save your life right now.

Also consider that a holstered gun on your person is a safe gun. It can not fire unless you or someone does something. You know where it is, and that no child is messing with it.
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:45 PM   #21
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I have just started considering this myself recently as to whether or not to carry at all. I only own one pistol which was purchased for home defense and recently decided that I want to start carrying to provide safety for my family outside of the home as well as inside. This thread has been very helpful to me as we'll since I didn't realize there was so many conflictions that can occur over the decision to carry.

On a side note, the fact that you live in Philadelphia alone is reason enough to carry 24/7. I live just outside of the city, about 20 mins away, and I am planning to carry all the time myself. Funny how a newborn shifts your views on life.
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:59 PM   #22
StainlessSteel215
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Welcome aboard Sheriff...glad you gained a few important nuggets from this thread also. I'm also about 15-20 minutes outside the city to the north

I have to admit, I'm intimidated by the Tueller drill because its just seems entirely unrealistic in terms of results. After seeing an interview with Dennis Tueller himself where he admits that "the best you can hope for is an even tie, from a seasoned shooter who was expecting it..."

I see the value of preparing for a fast, high stress gun draw drill but that one seems damn near impossible! I suppose the goal is to work up to as close to a tie as possible...striking the target by the time it reaches you?

After watching a few videos...I absolutely see myself fumbling about in a situation like that! Time to get serious
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Old October 16, 2012, 02:05 PM   #23
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INCREDIBLE 21 ft video....Im speechless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igSo...ture=endscreen
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Old October 16, 2012, 02:20 PM   #24
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SS215 You may want to stop carrying until you resolve your issue. All the while you may consider seeking more training / practice that will help you become more comfortable / confident with whatever you carry.

Consider this in the meantime. What are you willing to give up if attacked by a bad guy, in a car jack, at an atm, in the park. Crazed Maniac, Masked Gunman, and Junkie Stick Up Kid have no concern for time or place, they don't consider things like low crime areas or even playgrounds. The fact is they strike in those kinda places thinking it would be easier to get away after all nobody would shoot them at a playground, right.

For me, everyday all the time, meaning from the time I wake up and get dressed till I go to sleep, I have a gun on my person. I made a choice to stay out of places that don't allow carry, only exceptions are church and my sons school and in both case I leave it in the lock box in the truck. At home in the evening I take my watch off, cell phone, but not the gun. That's the choice I made. To me it's an all or not at all commitment.

The sad part is something had to happen to me and persons close to me before I got it. The city I live in is very dangerous, to the 10th power dangerous. Everybody carries, ( or almost ) bad guys, granny, dizzy college chick, wheelchair Willie, sicence geek, Pastor Do rite, everybody, so I'm not gonna be the one without a gun if something goes down. In that kinda enviroment you better be mentally ready and your gun ready for use, i.e. cocked. Sounds to me your not there yet.
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Old October 16, 2012, 02:43 PM   #25
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From a lecture by Col. David Grossman, which I have never forgotten. He is speaking about not being armed and prepared, which he calls denial.

"Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth."
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