The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 27, 2012, 08:52 PM   #1
golfnutrlv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2008
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 1,347
Rifle Upgrade Question, F-Class Specifically

Hey all,

So I have been shooting F-class for two seasons now, absolutely love it, and have a desire to get better. I was recently classified Expert.

I would like to make my rifle more accurate, to help my scores, in addition to me working on my fundamentals, and overall skill.

Right now, running a Remington 700 .308, 26" factory remington barrel. I have changed the trigger to a Timney, changed the stock to a bell and carlson medalist with vertical grip, more weight etc. The gun will shoot .5 inch groups all day.

My question is, which of these two upgrades will help me more, speficially F-class:

Upgrade to a higher end and higher power scope: Sightron SIII 8-32x56 1/8 MOA clicks (I currently run a Vortex Viper 6.5-20X50 Mil-Dot with 1/4 MOA clicks)

and/or

Have the rifle fully bedded, true the action, other small upgrades by my gunsmith. (Probably do this regardless)

Biggest question I have though: Is the scope worth it? Will it help me enough to justify the cost?

Appreciate your thoughts!
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
VIGILIA PRETIUM LIBERTATIS
"The price of liberty is vigilance"
America is at an awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.
golfnutrlv is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 08:56 PM   #2
allaroundhunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
What type of scope are you currently using, and what types of groups are you shooting at extended ranges?

.5" at 100 yards is great, but after that some guns will still be shooting 4" groups at 300.
allaroundhunter is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:07 PM   #3
ripnbst
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 1,389
Here's my take on the scope. More magnification will make seeing the shots you do make easier but...will not help accuracy. I would take the money you'd spend on the scope and go aftermarket barrel and action work. Lots of places the price of the barrel and installation includes true up the action anyway. I would personally expect more bang for your buck there and be about same price or cheaper.

FYI most US F Class team shooters run a 12-42x optic. If you are going to buy a telescopic optic, I'd buy once cry once. Optics in that magnification that are quality are too expensive to be buying the "less expensive" scopes to work your way up. My take on it.
ripnbst is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:41 PM   #4
golfnutrlv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2008
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 1,347
Quote:
(I currently run a Vortex Viper 6.5-20X50 Mil-Dot with 1/4 MOA clicks)
Well, i haven't really grouped the rifle past 200 yards, but here are my last 3 match scores. (These are 30 rounds at 300, and 30 rounds at 600 on the apropriate F-Class targets)

600 Total Points:
552-8X
542-5X
582-24X
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
VIGILIA PRETIUM LIBERTATIS
"The price of liberty is vigilance"
America is at an awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.
golfnutrlv is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 10:34 PM   #5
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,858
F-Class open or FTR Class?. I have said scope you are talking about purchasing. I love it. More magnification is always better for tight groups.
If it is F-Class open ( Not that a 308 is not good) But you are out classed from the get go. I shoot F open and i went with a 6MMBR. If FTR is your game then it's hard to say. Bedding a rifle does not always make it more accurate,sometimes it harms accuracy. At what range are you pulling .5 groups?. What im getting at is,almost any bullet will group good at say 100 yards. I do all my load tests at 300 yards. Maybe tweak your load or so.
As Allaround hunter says, Groups will open up at a distance,that is not always because of the shooter. Testing groups at 100 yards is useless in my book. Not to be insulting at all,but is it the rifle or you?. Hows your breathing,trigger squeeze,ect ect?. There are just so many variables here that to bear it all down on the rifle is a stab. What kind of groups are you holding at 600 yards?.

Looking at your scores you posted,I must say you are in the ball game already. ( Great Shooting ) It seems rifle is doing its thing already. Are some of these flyers?. I think if i was you,I would just practice more as you seem to be doing very well already.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

Last edited by 4runnerman; October 27, 2012 at 10:40 PM.
4runnerman is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 11:57 PM   #6
golfnutrlv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2008
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 1,347
4runnerman:

F T/R is my game. My handload is pretty darn good. I have tested it to death. I really think it is the best load for my rifle. Sierra 175 Matchking, Varget, Lapua brass, and Fed 210M's. The .5 inch groups are at 100 yards.

More than anything else, trying to figure out if the scope is worth buying. Being the careful buyer, I want to be sure a new scope will help me before I buy.

To add a little more detail, I would say the rifle is very accurate. has been from day one. Trying to figure if there is a way to squeeze a few more points out of it without going new barrel.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
VIGILIA PRETIUM LIBERTATIS
"The price of liberty is vigilance"
America is at an awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.
golfnutrlv is offline  
Old October 28, 2012, 09:35 AM   #7
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,858
golfnutrlv- I say the scope will help only to the extent that it makes your bullseye look bigger and that makes it easier to shoot smaller groups.
That load you shoot is very much the same as mine. I use winchester brass.
Im not sure how much more you can squeek out of a 308. Im sure you have heard the phrase ( a 308 is good at everything,but great at nothing ). It is a all around good round,but not the best. Being FRT is only for 308 and 223 you have the best you canget for that class. When you do your load work up do you do it at 300 yards?. I ask because i have many loads that will pull .5 or less at 100 yards,but they fall apart at greater distances. I have always said,if a bullet is going to go South on you.100 yards is not a good enough distance to find that out. What kind of groups you pulling at 300 yards?. I can keep 8 out of 10 in a golf ball size group sometimes 9 out of 10. ( Damn fliers ha ha) But back to your scope, I would say yes it will help. NRA Sanctioned Targets are what they are
It took me a while to get used to shooting at them as i do not like the solid Black Target.

Switching scopes will get you closer to the target for sure. At 100 yards almost cuts the distance in half. 6 ft at 100 or 3.2 ft at 100. I have always been in the group for more power when it comes to paper punching. Like i said, I have the scope you are looking at and i love it. I have no issues reaching out to 1000 yards with it. I would like to get into the NIghtforce,but money don't grow on trees for me either.

If you get the scope-Definetly go with fine crosshairs for sure. You have the option of hash marks also, I did not go that route simple because they track so nice anyhow ( actually track awesome ) it was just extra clutter i did not need.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

Last edited by 4runnerman; October 28, 2012 at 09:45 AM.
4runnerman is offline  
Old October 28, 2012, 09:53 AM   #8
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 3,107
F T/R is out to 1233 yards, isn't it (asking, not sure...)?

Trueing the 700 action is always a good idea, along with a match barrel while it's off...

1/2 minute is certainly good...but if you can get it even slightly better, that can amount to a significant difference at 1K and beyond.

Not sure what you're talking about with stock bedding, the B&C Medalist (my son has one on his 700 as well) has an integrated aluminum bedding block- you can't glass bed it...although some guys "skim" bed over the block, I don't think it's necessary in most cases.
tobnpr is offline  
Old October 28, 2012, 10:58 AM   #9
golfnutrlv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2008
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 1,347
Thanks all for the replies...

4runnerman:

I don't have any group sizes from 300 yards except for match scores. My range is 200 yards normally, but has 300 and 600 yard stations for matches only.

Last match, I scored this on a 300 yard F target:
148-6X (This was 2 9's. one was wind change, one was totally my fault)
145-7X (This was 1 8, and 3 9's. The 8 and one of the 9's was probably due to hot barrel changing the point of impact. They were about half way through the second string of 15. Don't remember what happened with the other 2 9's, probably shooter, as I usually remember if it's wind.)

So long story short, the first string, discounting the fliers is less than a 2.85" group, standard target dimension.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
VIGILIA PRETIUM LIBERTATIS
"The price of liberty is vigilance"
America is at an awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.
golfnutrlv is offline  
Old October 28, 2012, 12:26 PM   #10
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnsota
Posts: 2,858
golfnut-I would say you are doing very well already. You can practice more and more and im sure that will help. Seems you and your rifle are perfoming very well,so with that i would think that just keeping up the practice and all you will get to where you want to be. Doping the wind at 600 or 1000 yards is a very hard knack to pick up. I wish i could help ya there,but I am still working on it myself.
Last Match i shot at the flags at 300 and 500 were flapping and 600 was a still as can be. It's just a crazy deal to work with.

Now Im shooting F-Class open,which to me is easier than what you are doing.
You guys that can shot off a bipod like that---You have talant for sure. One that i would love to have.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old October 28, 2012, 01:51 PM   #11
golfnutrlv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2008
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 1,347
I actually semi-cheat and use the Sinclair F-class bipod. Worthwhile upgrade IMO.

Thanks for the comments 4runnerman
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
VIGILIA PRETIUM LIBERTATIS
"The price of liberty is vigilance"
America is at an awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.
golfnutrlv is offline  
Old October 31, 2012, 02:08 AM   #12
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,441
F-T/R

I'm a fledgling F-T/R guy and love it too, but find I cannot travel and shoot as much as I'd like. No ranges really close. And I have to take off to go to a match on weekends. My rifle is a Savage and the my load uses all the same components. I have a Burris 6-24x XTR scope and use the Sinclair bipod. The rifle will shoot into about .75 moa at 100 if I do my part. I do OK but am not a standout. My best 300 yd score ATC is 144-6x on the F-class target. (1 moa 10 ring- 1/2 MOa x ring) My goal is to not finish last at any match, and outshoot myself.

The guys that are winning at the matches I do get to shoot in are running really high magnification scopes, usually Nightforces, sometimes Leupolds, and usually cranked up high enough to read mirage. They are also very compulsive about their ammo and have an in depth understanding of loading match grade rounds. My mentor weighs his 175 gr Matchkings. Every one.

They also shoot a ton, at range, and are quite good at reading wind. With a .308, that is the name of the game. It is an art of sorts and I suspect best learned by lots of shooting.

I do not know where your Vortex falls in the quality race for scopes. The Sightron III was suggested to me before I bought the Burris.

REgards F-T/R, all I've ever shot is ATC at 3-5-600, , and long range at 1000. I hear there are 600 yd mid range matches and long range matches at 1200, but have not participted in those.

YOu get to a match and see a guy with a Frankenstein looking Savage in an ugly green monster stock, that's me!
bamaranger is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10816 seconds with 7 queries