The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 27, 2012, 06:53 AM   #26
plouffedaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,220
Yes.
__________________
Mrgunsngear's Youtube Channel
Certified Glock Armorer
plouffedaddy is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 07:35 AM   #27
Mystro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2004
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 1,141
I love lighting a **** bomb and then run out of the room. Seriously though, I asked the question more of a convenience state of mind. My night stand guns are always +1 but my carry hi-cap guns I tend to load just the magazine only for the convenience when unloading it, I hate having that extra +1 round loose and I have small children in the house and sometimes I don't want want my striker fire gun with a round in the chamber if the gun isn't on my hip or high secured storage area.
I feel if the confrontation isn't neutralized in under 3-6 rounds, I have now progressed in a full gun battle. A that point, 15 or 16 rounds respectively should get me out of the situation. Hope or the best but train for the worst. On a side note, I do load +1 in the woods as more of a survival plan.



Last edited by Mystro; October 27, 2012 at 07:45 AM.
Mystro is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 08:03 AM   #28
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,772
Quote:
doingMach1 wrote:

Geez, this is as bad as a political discussion...everyone's got an opinion and thinks theirs is right!
Welcome to the mystery that is a gun forum.

Anyway, I always +1 when I carry a semi. Which is rarely.
__________________
NRA Life Member (2003)
USN Retired
I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
Skadoosh is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 08:54 AM   #29
AH.74
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2008
Location: Hermit's Peak
Posts: 623
Quote:
No, magazine is too bad @ 15 with 1 in the pipe. If you notice when you stick a fully loaded magazine into a gun, the magazine hangs low?

I believe it damages the gun, too much force downward from the slide of the gun, to the magazine/magazine catch/springs in side etc...... I carry 14+1, removed one from the magazine of 15. I have two/three reloads so I do not worry about this extra round, I could see for guys who are 7+1.

I believe I notice it on the Glock, where you put 15 in the magazine the slide raises up due to the force of the magazine.
I'm really not sure what you mean by "too bad @15 with one in the pipe." Could you clarify? The one in the pipe has nothing to do with the magazine afaic.

I have never noticed my Glocks' mags "hanging low" with a full load. If you see that, you don't have them fully seated.

Would you be able to describe the damage you feel this causes, or show us pictures? I also have not seen a full mag push my Glocks' slides upward at all.

These guns are designed for much harder treatment than most of us ever give them. Even if there is a little downward pressure from the slide on the mag (which I do not agree exists), so what? Have you considered that maybe it's supposed to be that way?

Do you ever have any problems at all- misfeeds, FTF, FTE?

Have you ever viewed slow-mo video of a Glock being fired? If not, maybe you shouldn't- you might not like what you see.

The point it, the gun is not a fragile toy. It's designed to operate under extremely high pressures with a controlled explosion happening inside it. It can handle a little bit of pressure here and there.

Use the gun as it's designed. It's not designed to be down-loaded.
AH.74 is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:05 AM   #30
Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2000
Posts: 3,622
Quote:
Use the gun as it's designed. It's not designed to be down-loaded.
I agree with carrying a full mage with one in the pipe, but the gun IS designed to be downloaded. After the first shot it is certainly downloaded, and designed to function that way. It is also designed to function starting with one less in the mag if you so choose.
__________________
Pilot
Pilot is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:06 AM   #31
454me
Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 36
Yes. Plus 2 extra mags
__________________
Hey I didn't do it. It was like that when I got here.

http://community.webshots.com/user/454me
454me is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:14 AM   #32
481
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Posts: 469
Yes, I always "top it off".

If the gun won't permit such an operation, it is not one that I am interested in carrying.
__________________
My favorite "gun" book -

QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION
481 is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:14 AM   #33
MikeGunz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2011
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 195
Maybe youll get swarmed by zombies and take some out but get bitten in the process and youll need that last rd to take yourself out! Youre crazy if you don't +1 youre CC!
MikeGunz is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:27 AM   #34
AH.74
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2008
Location: Hermit's Peak
Posts: 623
Quote:
I agree with carrying a full mage with one in the pipe, but the gun IS designed to be downloaded. After the first shot it is certainly downloaded, and designed to function that way. It is also designed to function starting with one less in the mag if you so choose.
Yes, both of these things are true. But the gun is designed to be carried with a full load and be perfectly reliable doing so. It is not intended for the gun to be carried with less than a full load, if you are indeed able to obtain a full load.
AH.74 is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:38 AM   #35
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,527
I would carry a mage also, to cast spells on my enemy. Sorry!

Anyway, I top off after chambering one. Always another zombie (this being the season).
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is online now  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:51 AM   #36
Hansam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 763
Regardless of mag size I always carry with a full mag and one chambered.

Thus far I haven't seen ANY semi-auto pistols that the manufacturer has recommended NOT carrying that way. In fact every pistol I've seen mentions the full capacity of the mag +1 as the pistol's full capacity capability.

As for traveling into hostile territory - if I'm knowingly going into hostile territory then that means I'm more than likely going somewhere where the law is not going to be of much help for me. As such I'm going to go considerably more heavily armed than with just my EDC. I'd bring an AR (or two and also in +1 capacity), lots of loaded mags, some support (back-up) etc. Of course I personally make it a point NOT to go into hostile territory so this shouldn't be an issue but if I ever DO decide to venture into no man's land that's what I'd do.
__________________
This is who we are, what we do.
Hansam is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 10:23 AM   #37
kemassey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2009
Posts: 146
+1 in my XDs. Why wouldn't you do that?
kemassey is online now  
Old October 27, 2012, 10:30 AM   #38
Mystro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2004
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 1,141
I am a country boy living on top of a mountain. My hostile situation is when I have to venture into a certain part of a local city where confrontation is statistically more of a possibility. If I "know" there is a higher threat of danger around my property, my handgun is secondary and always go for the shotgun or AR. A very rare occurrence happened a few years ago when a dangerous convict escaped and made his way 20 miles through the rural countryside. He broke into a trailer a few miles down the hill and tried to take a elderly couple hostages. My neighbor and shooting buddy (a local SWAT officer) called me around 2am and told me to be prepared to watch your large wooded property. I grabbed the spot lights, 300win mag, shotgun and sidearm. (I am always prepared anyway) my wife grabbed her HK and was on alert.
When the chopper with spotlight showed up hovering the area around 2:30am. The State Police chopper pilot knew us both because he landed in my fields several times over the years. We both were on full alert/duty around our properties. The convict was caught days later after he stole a car.
That was what I would consider a potential hostile environment.

Last edited by Mystro; October 27, 2012 at 10:39 AM.
Mystro is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 10:35 AM   #39
kinggabby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2011
Location: OKC
Posts: 473
No but I carry 46 rounds
kinggabby is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 12:39 PM   #40
CharlieDeltaJuliet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2012
Posts: 750
+1 is an always for me... I just always have carried in the chamber and topped off mag.
__________________
" The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect
themselves against tyranny in Government.
..." - Thomas Jefferson
CharlieDeltaJuliet is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 12:52 PM   #41
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,492
I've had a few semiautos that didn't like being +1. Inserting a full mag into a chambered gun made it more difficult to be sure the mag was fully seated.

However my P01 seems to have a bit more extra mag follower leeway and it just snicks right in regardless.

I had a terrible time with the Sig 220 during competition. Some stages call for a reload after a couple shots, and I'd have to download the magazine by one just to be sure it would seat.
chris in va is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 01:22 PM   #42
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
My P220 was harder to seat in +1 configuration.

Cheapshooter, just because the guns you own are ok for +1 carry, does not mean that all guns are ok for +1 carry.

The guns you have are also ok for +P ammo. That does not mean that all guns are ok for +P ammo.

Again, check your owner's manual; see how the manufacturer lists the gun; and function check your gun. Not exactly rocket science.

Making assumptions that because your gun works a certain way, that all guns must work that way, is not a good practice.
MLeake is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 02:28 PM   #43
TylerOutdoorsman
Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2012
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Posts: 49
I want all the ammo I can carry comfortably. Period.

So +1 is a given.
TylerOutdoorsman is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 07:38 PM   #44
1hogfan83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2011
Location: Fayetteville AR
Posts: 367
To each his own, who cares. What's the difference between a 5 shot j frame and 15 round auto. If everyone wanted maximum firepower they would carry an AR or a SAW. Just get what makes you feel comfortable. If you have a 270 round magazine, carry 7 in it. who cares. What makes me feel happy someone else is probably going to hate.
__________________
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe—and shudder. James 2:19
"I do not fear the man that practices ten thousand kicks one time, I fear the man that practices one kick ten thousand times." Bruce Lee
1hogfan83 is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 08:14 PM   #45
jasmith85
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 277
I keep one in the chamber. If I ever do need to use the gun I don't want to have to rack the slide first.
jasmith85 is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 08:17 PM   #46
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,215
Quote:
I keep one in the chamber. If I ever do need to use the gun I don't want to have to rack the slide first.
That's not carrying +1. Carrying +1 is loading the magazine to full capacity, chambering a round, and then loading one more round in the magazine to make up for the one that was chambered.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 08:26 PM   #47
jasmith85
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 277
Quote:
That's not carrying +1. Carrying +1 is loading the magazine to full capacity, chambering a round, and then loading one more round in the magazine to make up for the one that was chambered.
If thats the case I still always do although I usually drop a round in through the ejection port and then insert a fully loaded magazine in an attempt to quell bullet setback. I don't really see a point to not doing so.
jasmith85 is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 08:28 PM   #48
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 4,215
Quote:
If thats the case I still always do although I usually drop a round in through the ejection port and then insert a fully loaded magazine in an attempt to quell bullet setback.
Idk if putting more wear and tear on an extractor is a fair trade to avoid bullet setback. Setback occurs. Just shoot off your carry ammo, or even just that one round, every so often.
__________________
Guns don't kill people. Apes with guns kill people! - Robin Williams
TunnelRat is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 09:00 PM   #49
ccwnut
Member
 
Join Date: September 21, 2012
Location: The United States
Posts: 95
As othersd have said, to each their own. My gun is always carried plus one.
If I couldn't trust it with a full mag and a loaded chamber, I wouldn't carry it.
Thankfully it's not my neck some people are willing to risk.
__________________
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin
ccwnut is offline  
Old October 27, 2012, 10:54 PM   #50
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
JohnKSa had this to say, back in 2006, in a similar discussion in TheHighRoad:

Quote:
JohnKSaApril 19, 2006, 12:15 AM
Beretta actually hints that it's better if you not "top off" the magazine after chambering a round.

Here's the quote from my Beretta 92G manual:

LOADING TO MAXIMUM PISTOL CAPACITY: During normal chamber loading, as described above, the pistol contains one round in the chamber plus 14 rounds in the magazine. This is an advantage because the magazine spring is not fully compressed but under about the same tension as a 15-round loaded spare magazine.

I suspect that this is a total non-issue with single column magazines and not much of an issue with most double-column magazines. It is worth noting that if you insert a fully loaded magazine into a pistol that has a round chambered (or that has the slide forward) the spring is compressed a bit by the bottom of the slide. Since some double-column magazines are riding the hairy edge of over-compressing their springs (which shortens spring life), this extra bit of compression may be more of an issue than it seems at first.
later in that same thread, he answered some challenges to the physics involved:

Quote:
When the magazine is loaded into the pistol, the bottom of the slide is compressing the top round downward into the magazine. This can usually be seen when disassembling the pistol after shooting as the downward pressure onto the brass cartridges causes the bottom of the slide to be covered in "brass" marks that have rubbed off the cartridges in the magazine from the slide's backward motion in recoil.

This is common to all autopistols. If this were not true, the round would not pop up far enough to allow the slide to strip it from the magazine and push it into the chamber on the return stroke.

It's also possible to detect this by noting the difference in pressure required to insert a loaded magazine vs inserting an empty magazine, or comparing the difference in pressure required to insert a loaded magazine into a gun with the slide forward versus the pressure required to insert a loaded magazine into a gun with the slide locked back.

For a very simple way to note this, put a fully loaded magazine into an unloaded pistol. Now SLOWLY pull back the slide. You'll note that as the slide clears the back of the top round in the magazine, the round will pop up under spring pressure. That spring pressure was pushing the round up against the bottom of the slide until the slide moved out of the way. And therefore, the slide was also causing the magazine spring to be compressed more than it would have been compressed had it been loaded with the identical number of rounds but NOT inserted into the pistol.

Beretta is saying that the sum of the downward compression by the slide plus the compression on the spring generated by 14 rounds in the mag is roughly the same amount of compression on the spring of a mag that is NOT inserted into the gun (and therefore has no extra compression due to the slide) but is fully loaded with 15 rounds.
MLeake is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14584 seconds with 7 queries