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Old October 25, 2012, 10:29 PM   #1
OkieCruffler
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Is the 12ga neccessary for trap?

I was giving some thought to putting together a dedicated trap gun. I use a 12 for skeet but I use really reduced loads. Seems like in trap a faster, larger payload would be adventagous and I guess I could always figure in some kind of recoil reducing system but it sure would be easier to stick with my reduced loads or even better the 20.
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Old October 25, 2012, 10:49 PM   #2
the rifleer
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I use a 20 and I usually can hit 1 or 2 more targets with a 12. Id say there is an advantage. Use the reduced loads if you like. Its all about how much lead you throw out, not how fast they move.

Every time I shoots trap/skeet I always get "good shooting for a 20 gauge"
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Old October 26, 2012, 06:42 AM   #3
eastbank
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its all about the pattern and the larger payload will put more shot in the pattern at any given distance. i use a 20ga some times,but have only ever shot 24-25,never a 25-25. with a 12ga i have shot many 25-25 and quite a few 50-50,s. and get a shotgun that fits you,without that a 10ga will not help much. a good progressive loader is a must,but also watch for specials at dick,s,bass pro ect. i just bought 6 flats of federal trap shells for 53.00 a flat out the door at bass pro. and go have fun. eastbank.
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Old October 26, 2012, 08:36 AM   #4
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Attend any larger trap shoot and take a look at whats being used. Pretty much all 12's.
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Old October 26, 2012, 10:53 AM   #5
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12 ga's are dominant if you're in serious competition....but for most of us, it really doesn't make that much difference, especially on Trap singles from the 16 yard line.

I have a buddy that shoots nothing but 7/8 oz loads of 8's at 1150 fps in any 12ga ...for any game ...including Trap ...and his averages, as a casual shooter are around 96 out of 100. He's not a serious shooter ...he shoots 7/8 oz in his 12ga's ( like a typical 20ga load ) to reduce recoil and to save money on his reloads.

I've shot Trap singles with my 20ga Skeet gun (Citori XS Skeet model) - with a standard 20ga load ....7/8 oz at 1200 fps and a Mod choke ...and it breaks targets hard. I've also shot Trap singles with a 28ga Skeet gun ( Citori XS Skeet model )and my standard load of 3/4 oz of 8's at 1200 fps again with a Mod choke. My scores don't drop much at all, for Trap singles from the 16 yd line, with either the 20ga or 28ga vs the 12ga...but I'm not a serious Trap shooter either.
-----------------
My primary load for a 12ga is 1oz of 8's at 1225 fps ...(I don't bother to load 3 or 4 different shells for different games)...and I shoot that load at Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays - although I developed it primarily for Sporting Clays ...I may drop that standard load down to 7/8 oz as well to save some money on shot with a 12ga.

There have also been a lot of studies done on velocity and amount of shot in 12ga guns...and while there may not be a consensus yet....it does seem that 1 oz of shot seems to pattern better than some 1 1/8 oz loads...( less flyers outside the pattern) and guys talk about not getting their loads too fast - so they don't blow holes in their patterns. So more shot and faster ...are not necessarily a good thing.
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I know some serious Trap shooters, when they shoot Handicapped singles ( 25 - 27 yd lines ) they do shoot 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2's at 1200 fps...but their serious competitive shooters/shoot registered targets every weekend. If I practice with them ...I just stick with my 1 oz of 8's in a 12ga Trap gun ( Citori XT Trap with 32" barrels at around 10 lbs)...( and my aveages aren't great / but about a 23 from Handicap ranges - and a little higher at 16 yds) ...and that's good enough for just out having fun. If I were to shoot a 20ga at Handicap distances, I might give myself another miss or two as an acceptable round....but I'm not a serious Trap shooter.

Pay more attention to the weight and length and Fit of the gun ..especially if you want a dedicated Trap gun....than whether you will shoot 1 oz or 7/8 oz of shot....and it'll pay off way more in my opinion.

Trap is kind of the odd ball game in clay sports...because ideally we want to float the bird over the barrel - so we want a gun, that for point of impact shoots higher...say a 70%/30% pattern over point of impact or at least a 60%/40% pattern probably. Where in sporting clays and skeet we want more of a 50%/50% pattern ( and usually a lighter gun ) ...where in Trap we usually want a heavier gun ( in Trap there is less extreme left to right barrel movement ...and a heavier and longer gun helps with your sight plane and helps you with follow thru ) ....where that 32" or 34" barrel on Skeet with a 10lb gun, in my buddies words, feels like swinging a big ole sewer pipe, vs a fairly nimble and controlled swing of a typical Skeet or Sporting Clays gun.
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While I have single barrel dedicated Trap guns...( BT-100, etc ) ...the Trap gun I like the best is a Citori XT Trap, 32" barrels, with adj comb, and with a GraCoil system in it and it weighs right at 10 lbs. I lust once in a while after a nice Krieghoff KX-6 in a 34" barrel ...but both of those guns are only available in 12ga...so your only option would be to drop down to a 7/8 oz shell...but the weight of the guns / and the GraCoil if you put one in....reduces recoil significantly anyway.

http://www.krieghoff.com/index.php/c...ngle-shot-trap

but I would still want the Citori XT Trap with 32" barrels for Continental Trap singles ...or Doubles. So I keep telling myself it would be foolish to shoot a different gun for Singles..../ which is why I don't shoot my BT-100 much either / so why spend the money on something I won't end up shooting too much....

Last edited by BigJimP; October 26, 2012 at 11:31 AM.
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Old October 26, 2012, 02:11 PM   #6
Dave McC
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Welcome back,John.

For fun, shoot what you want.

If you're seriously going for that first 500X500, shoot a custom fitted and choked 12.
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Old October 26, 2012, 02:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
...he shoots 7/8 oz in his 12ga's ( like a typical 20ga load ) to reduce recoil and to save money on his reloads.
While that is really a 20 ga load, he is most likely get better patterns shooting it through a 12 bore than he would the same load though a 20 bore.
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Old October 26, 2012, 02:33 PM   #8
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I know a few serious trap shooters. They all use 1oz @ 1250fps. Like the rest of us that aren't serious, shoot whatever you want.
For as little trap that I shoot, I'm in the low 20's with any given shell.
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Old October 26, 2012, 02:38 PM   #9
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Speaking as a newer trap shooter, but a very poor one for as long as I have been at it, full 1 -1/8 12 gauge loads make a difference. You can shoot reduced loads, but expect reduced scores, which makes little difference if you are only competing against yourself. I took a lesson recently with a guy named Phil Ross and since all I had was 1 ounce wads that was what I brought. He suggested I go to "soft 1-1/8's".

If you have these #$%^& bio targets, I think full 12's are even more important. Whereas a 1200 fps 1 ounce load breaks them, a 1250 fps 1-1/8 crushes them.
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Old October 26, 2012, 09:14 PM   #10
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Well I'm shooting a 3/4oz load in my 311 right now. And while not common at least the 25's in skeet are coming regular enough so they don't surprise me anymore. It's even fairly adaquate at sporting clays. But that gun is terrible at trap. I've been shooting my 870 with a 28" IM barrel but I also use that with a 21" IC barrel for rabbit and an 18" Cyl for around the house. I don't mind swapping barrels between jobs but I'd like to have a higher comb for trap and I don't want to swap stocks between. I actually really like the 870 so I may buy another to dedicate to trap. I shoot to amuse myself not impress others so if I never run a 25straight it won't bother me that much.
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Old October 27, 2012, 12:13 AM   #11
.300 Weatherby Mag
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1250 fps 1-1/8 crushes them.
Oh does it???
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Old October 27, 2012, 01:29 AM   #12
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Oh does it???
Don't be cruel! Okay, it crushes them when I hit them, which isn't that often.
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Old October 27, 2012, 01:37 AM   #13
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Don't be cruel! Okay, it crushes them when I hit them, which isn't that often.
Your trap averages are better than mine...
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Old October 27, 2012, 01:38 AM   #14
OkieCruffler
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I shoot to amuse myself not impress others
Or some days I shoot to impress myself and amuse others. For some strange reason that folks smarter than I can't quite figure out I have a clotting factor issue that causes clots to form in my arms. Well arms mostly or legs or last summer kidney. Heavy recoil tends to really cause this so my days of 1 1/8oz 1250fps loads are behind me. 3/4oz at 1200 seems to be okay as long as I kinda watch what I'm doing. I've got a closet full of mil-surps that never see the light of day anymore. The more I think about it the more I think another 870 is in order. Reduced loads and a mercury reducer. Seems to be a decent idea.
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Old October 27, 2012, 01:44 AM   #15
TheKlawMan
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OkieCruffler, You are doing so well with greatly reduced loads, I say get what you want. Should you go with the 12, though, and you know this I am sure, you have the option of shooting 3/4, 7/8 or 1 ounce loads, and if you want to crush someone load up some 1 1/8. The other thought, if I recall what Zippy13 has said in the past, is that the shot column of a true 20 is really different than a 7/8 ounce 12 gauge.

By wanting a higher comb for trap, do you mean that you want to raise the height of the comb in relation to the rib or do you mean that you want to raise the entire gun up in relation to your shoulder so that you can shoot with your head held up more? Perhaps you mean both.
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Old October 27, 2012, 02:18 AM   #16
OkieCruffler
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A little of both. My IM barrel has no rib and I wouldn't mind having one. A fella let me run a round with his K20 with a high comb and rib and I could definately tell the difference. A local pawn has one of those crazy looking Mossberg trap guns for sale and I'd try it but for some reason it takes a two hand grip to rack the slide on it.
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Old October 27, 2012, 03:50 AM   #17
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There is a heck of a range from a pawn shop Mossberg to a K20 for you to consider. I think Rastoff on shotgunworld wrote a great post on the range of trap guns. It sounds to me as though you would want a Monte Carlo stock so you can stand more upright. BigJimP will come along later and know much more about the subject.
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Old October 27, 2012, 03:57 AM   #18
OkieCruffler
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Well I do know my budget is alot closer to that mossy than a K20. I could sell off my entire collection and buy a K20 but that would make that 500yrd gong quite the challange.
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Old October 27, 2012, 12:22 PM   #19
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Check out the options with a Jack West stock ....on the 870's if you still want to go that route.

But seriously, with blood clot issues, you need to consider getting away from a fixed breech gun...and probably go to a semi-auto gas operated ..even like a Rem 1100 ...( and maybe put the Jack West stock on it too ). With the parallel comb / adj comb on the Jack West stocks you can get the pattern a little higher...for Trap.

Picking up a good used 1100 - and then getting the Jack West Stock is a pretty reasonable expense for a dedicated Trap gun.
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Old October 27, 2012, 05:11 PM   #20
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If you do go the Jack West stock route, which is one I thought of when BigJimP suggested that I might use it with my 870, that isn't a bad way to go. Especially if you get one with a BumpBuster. What you will not have is a true Monte Carlo stock, but the pad of the BumpBuster can be dropped some. How much I do not know. I am not sure, but think that if you don't want to get another gun and modify it, you might consider a new Model 1100 Competition Synthetic. Not sure but believe that is a Jack West with a Bump Buster on it.
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Old October 27, 2012, 06:39 PM   #21
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On the cheap, you could use something like Wrapid Comb while shooting trap.

http://www.gunsolutions.com/catalog/...products_id=28
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Old October 27, 2012, 07:54 PM   #22
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I had thought of something like the Wrapid Comb, but am unsure whether the thickness of the side would push the stock away and create cast on. Reading the link, it still isn't clear if that is adjustable but I am guessing that it is. Still, it won't give you the same effect as a MC stock. With an MC, your eye remains at the same height relative to the rib. If you raise your eye by virtue of am Adjustable Comb, something like the Wrapid Comb, CheekEze, or just by lifting your head off the rock a tad, the height of the eye increases relative to the rib which, as you know, results in a higher point of impact.

The virtue of a device, such as the 100 Straight or, I believe, the BumpBuster is that by lowering the recoil pad you raise the entire gun in relation to its mount on your shoulder. Some adjust as much as 1" with the result that you need not slide the gun as far up your shoulder to acheive a proper fit. This allows a trap shoorer to take a more erect stance than he might with another gun.

Actually, since I shoot trap with a relative flat shooting gun, a Citori XS Skeet, and want to be able to easily shoot skeet with it I may try the Wrapid Comb (if it can be configured so as not to add cast on).
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Old October 27, 2012, 08:13 PM   #23
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Klawman -

I agree with you on the MC or adjustable comb being a better option as well as on the adjustable recoil pad. I have a Wrapid comb that I use on a wingmaster. It does add a little cast, but it's really not that bad. They come in right and left hand variations. I originally bought it to raise the comb when I put a 20" rifle sighted barrel on my skeet gun. I only shoot slugs a couple times a year and didn't want to bother changing stocks. It also works well when I want to shoot some trap. Not a perfect solution, but a fairly inexpensive one that works well for me.
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Old October 27, 2012, 09:15 PM   #24
TheKlawMan
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Sounds good Dale. As is I have a problem with cast on and don't want to add any, but it sounds like a good solution for what you are doing. Another postive of something like that can be keeping cheeks smeared with bug repellant or sun block off of wood stocks; especially if they have oil finishes per someone who was a long time valuable poster; oneounceload. I think he used something similar to the Wrapid Comb from an outfit called Bear something.
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Old October 27, 2012, 10:40 PM   #25
OkieCruffler
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Jim, I like the idea of the 1100. I have a .410 around here but talk about frustrating. I know a shop that has several, think I'll go look at them next week.
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