If you are/were a cop, what would be your duty pistol preference? - Page 3

Webleymkv · October 26, 2012, 12:53 AM

If I had to pick a gun from the list, I'd probably go with the Sig P229. If I could pick any gun I liked, it would depend on what locale I were an LEO in. If I were in a large city, I'd prefer a S&W 3rd generation semi-auto in 10mm Auto loaded with Winchester 175gr Silvertips. Were I in a more rural area in which I had to worry as much, if not more, about four-legged perps as two-legged ones I'd probably opt for a 4" S&W 629 loaded with a good 240gr JHP.

Nanuk · October 26, 2012, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Literally nothing wrong with your average revolver, but they could leave a LEO undergunned against someone packing a semi-auto

I never felt that way, but then again I train and practice with my guns.

5whiskey · October 26, 2012, 01:37 AM

Of what is on your list, I would stick with the Sig P229. I currently carry a P220 for duty. I would rather have the 229 for the smaller platform and a few extra rounds in .40. With that said, I would LOVE to carry a .357 revolver and would not feel outgunned unless facing multiple BGs. Even then, I would prefer making my way to the rifle in the trunk even if I carried a Glock with a 20 round magazine. Coincidentally, I would carry my revolver in an old school thigh slapper with a smile on my face if my agency would let me. Alas, for duty carry revolvers are all but a thing of the past. In my agency, plain clothes positions (admin, investigations, and narcotics) are allowed to carry a weapon other than their issue as long as it's approved by the firearms coordinator. The only revolver he would sign off on is a J-frame smith. While I'm okay with that, I would actually rather carry a full size 4" revolver. That's too "in your face" I guess.

BUT, I will carry what I'm told and not whine too much unless it's something I totally disagree with (like a S&W automatic... just not a fan).

ftttu · October 26, 2012, 03:32 AM

I carry a Glock 4th gen on duty which I personally purchased. Off duty, I carry an H&K P2000. If I was able to carry what I want, it would be a Glock 21 4th gen.

Gunnut17 · October 26, 2012, 04:11 AM

Quote:

I never felt that way, but then again I train and practice with my guns.

Okay, maybe not undergunned, but the LEO in question would be stuck with five to seven rounds, an average semi-auto double stack hold anywhere from twelve to eighteen, that more than double. The LEO would be reloading while the BG is still shooting, or reloading at a faster pace, in theory. And LEO's, based on statistics I have seen on TFL, aren't the best at hitting things.

dos0711 · October 26, 2012, 04:49 AM

I'd take a Glock 21

Single Six · October 26, 2012, 05:26 AM

Unfortunately, my agency, like most others, requires us to carry what they issue to us. In my case, it's the Sig P220ST. To put it bluntly, I absolutely DESPISE that gun, and have found it to be about as trustworthy as a Democrat's promise. If given the choice to carry whatever I wanted while on duty, I'd happily go with an option you didn't list: Either a Ruger P-90, or perhaps the slimmer Ruger P345.

kraigwy · October 26, 2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

maybe not undergunned, but the LEO in question would be stuck with five to seven rounds, an average semi-auto double stack hold anywhere from twelve to eighteen, that more than double. The LEO would be reloading while the BG is still shooting, or reloading at a faster pace, in theory. And LEO's, based on statistics I have seen on TFL, aren't the best at hitting things.

So your answer is to be able to "miss more" with the semis............not sure the general public who are in danger of all those missed rounds flying around would agree.

Its not the 6 shot revolver that makes you "outgunned" its the inability to hit your target that makes you "outgunned".

One hit with a revolver beats the heck out of 15 misses with a semi.

Never been a fan of the "spray and pray" theory.

I'm sure we are all tired of hearing this, but apparently some haven't got the message:

YOU CAN'T MISS FAST ENOUGH TO WIN A GUN FIGHT

Comancheseven · October 26, 2012, 10:53 AM

Well said Kraigwy, as a Instructor with my old agency I have had to show people the door when they could not qual. in the Academy. 3 times to qual. then your done. Pray and Spray does NOT WORK.

Dave

Gunnut17 · October 26, 2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

maybe not undergunned, but the LEO in question would be stuck with five to seven rounds, an average semi-auto double stack hold anywhere from twelve to eighteen, that more than double. The LEO would be reloading while the BG is still shooting, or reloading at a faster pace, in theory. And LEO's, based on statistics I have seen on TFL, aren't the best at hitting things.
So your answer is to be able to "miss more" with the semis............not sure the general public who are in danger of all those missed rounds flying around would agree.

Its not the 6 shot revolver that makes you "outgunned" its the inability to hit your target that makes you "outgunned".

One hit with a revolver beats the heck out of 15 misses with a semi.

Never been a fan of the "spray and pray" theory.

I'm sure we are all tired of hearing this, but apparently some haven't got the message:

YOU CAN'T MISS FAST ENOUGH TO WIN A GUN FIGHT

First, no need to shout.

Second, I never condoned spray and pray, I said with police accuracy statistics, a semi is probably better for the job.

Third, what the heck does it matter if you can feel safe with a revolver, I have no experience with one, and I decided that a semi auto would better suit me if I were a LEO, so I said so and stated why.

Oh, at Nanuk, I sensed a hint of condescension when you said, 'than again, I train with my guns'. You realize I am a thirteen year old who just happens to really, really like guns, right?

LockedBreech · October 26, 2012, 03:20 PM

kraig, you're an icon on this forum and have helped me a lot in the past, I put a lot of weight in your posts and agree completely with your training-trumps-all point, that said, if I train just as hard, is it not better to have, say, the 15+1 of an M&P40? Or is your point if I'm properly aiming the 6 125-grainers out of my Model 686 I shouldn't need more?

Brian48 · October 26, 2012, 05:59 PM

Was never a cop, but I have carried a sidearm on duty before. 1911A1, Beretta M9, and an 2.5 inch S&W Model 19 (while on embassy duty). The Smithie was my favorite of the bunch, despite being low in fire power compared to the other guns. I really wish I picked up a M19/66 snubbie while they were still making them.

kraigwy · October 26, 2012, 06:04 PM

There is a good way to show what I'm talking about.

Go watch a bowling pin match. They have categories for both revolver and pistol.

Disregard the better experienced shooters and watch the run of the mill shooters. See which group uses the most or least rounds to clear the pins off the table.

You'll find the revolver shooters, with their limited rounds before reloading tend to use less rounds. They know they don't have 15 or so rounds so then tend to concentrate on fundamentals as opposed to mass fire to clean the table.

Same thing in teaching kids to shoot, its best to use a single shot instead of something such as a 10/22 or other high cap rifle.

Nanuk · October 26, 2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Okay, maybe not undergunned, but the LEO in question would be stuck with five to seven rounds, an average semi-auto double stack hold anywhere from twelve to eighteen, that more than double. The LEO would be reloading while the BG is still shooting, or reloading at a faster pace, in theory. And LEO's, based on statistics I have seen on TFL, aren't the best at hitting things.

You can not use statistics to give you a true picture of what is going on in a LE gunfight. Most cops are not shooters, those that are, are pretty good and generally do not miss much. Most people here are shooters, but I would guess if they suddenly found themselves the victim of a violent assault may miss a touch too.

Quote:

Oh, at Nanuk, I sensed a hint of condescension when you said, 'than again, I train with my guns'. You realize I am a thirteen year old who just happens to really, really like guns, right?

Not condescending at all, just saying that I am good with my guns. I have trained enough, shot enough and been in enough tight spots to know how I am going to react. With my last duty gun alone I shot 15,000 rounds. I have over 30 years of LE/Military training and experience to back up what I have to say.

Nanuk · October 26, 2012, 07:35 PM

Quote:

kraig, you're an icon on this forum and have helped me a lot in the past, I put a lot of weight in your posts and agree completely with your training-trumps-all point, that said, if I train just as hard, is it not better to have, say, the 15+1 of an M&P40? Or is your point if I'm properly aiming the 6 125-grainers out of my Model 686 I shouldn't need more?

Not Kraig but, in my experience the revolver is dead even or even better than most auto's right up until you need to reload it. With proper tactics and a good shooter with a revolver capacity means very little.

That being said I carry a Glock 357 Sig loaded with Underwood 125 GRN GD's @ 1475-1500 fps.

Deaf Smith · October 26, 2012, 07:43 PM

Glock 22/23 or 32/33 with backup of 27/33.

And practice practice practice.

Deaf

357 Python · October 26, 2012, 08:12 PM

I have 3 in mind that I would choose to carry if I could. They are my S&W 686-1, a Colt 1911 in 45ACP, or a Sig P220 in 45ACP. While I have never tried the Sig P220 I have tried the SIG SP2340 in 40S&W. Unfortunately I am restricted to the issued Beretta 92FS not that it is a bad choice. I just believe there are better choices out there.

9mm · October 26, 2012, 10:10 PM

Glock 19, same as my edc because its what I like and right for my hands.

jmr40 · October 26, 2012, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Has CZ ever made its way into police agencies or ever issued as duty guns? I honestly dont know...

For a variety of reasons that ain't gonna happen here. They are used in a handful of places in Eastern Europe and a few are used by individuals in depts. that let officers carry almost anything they want.

If I'm spending my money it would be a Sig 226 or almost any of the Glocks. I'm not particular about caliber as long as it has quality ammo in it.

If someone else is buying the gun I could adapt to almost anything, including revolvers. I respect Kraigwy's experience as much as the next guy, but a revolver wouldn't be on the top of my list. Wouldn't be on the bottom either.

Give me about 100 rounds to get familiar with it and I'm good. There aren't many I haven't owned or shot so it wouldn't take long to get comfortable with them.

AUG · October 26, 2012, 11:04 PM

I would disagree that most on TFL are shooters as stated above.

Most on TFL like to talk about guns on the internet. Very, very few would be what I classify as "shooters". Nothing wrong with that but lets call a spade a spade.

Then again I sometimes forget every gun guy on the net claims every rifle he owns is MOA, is a great marksman, never loses a fight, and beats vegas everytime. lol

DragonDog · October 27, 2012, 02:36 AM

It's a bit of a beast to carry due to weight of all that ammo, but my choice would be USP 45.

Regards,
DragonDog

LockedBreech · October 27, 2012, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanuk

Not Kraig but, in my experience the revolver is dead even or even better than most auto's right up until you need to reload it. With proper tactics and a good shooter with a revolver capacity means very little.

That being said I carry a Glock 357 Sig loaded with Underwood 125 GRN GD's @ 1475-1500 fps.

Thanks for offering your wisdom Nanuk. I have been extremely impressed with tnoutdoors9 on YouTube testing the Underwood loads. Who'd have thought, .357 Sig and 10mm with PROPER velocity?!

doc51 · October 27, 2012, 04:04 PM

prior law officer here. my pick would be the glock 22. hands down my favorite.

Rifleman 173 · October 27, 2012, 06:01 PM

My 2 favorites are: Glock 21SF because I can carry a large .45 caliber round or a Glock 17 in 9 mm which would allow me to go for really good shot placement. With the 9 mm, I would practice doing the Mozambique shooting concept sort of like the Navy SEALs do with their 9 mm pistols. In addition, with the floor plate modification on a G-17 mag, you can carry 20 rounds of 9 mm ammo. And Glock will rush through repairs on a police gun if you let them know that your gun is used by an officer. Where I used to work, out of 70+ deputies most carried Glock pistols with Sig Sauers next in popularity. Glocks very seldom have problems but the 2 that we did send to Glock for repairs were back with us by the end of the week. But we had identified those 2 guns as being police duty firearms with the papers sent with them.

bspillman · October 28, 2012, 04:51 PM

in TN we carry a Glock when i was in FL I carried a sig 229. My vote goes to the Sig.

October 26, 2012, 12:53 AM	#51
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,410	If I had to pick a gun from the list, I'd probably go with the Sig P229. If I could pick any gun I liked, it would depend on what locale I were an LEO in. If I were in a large city, I'd prefer a S&W 3rd generation semi-auto in 10mm Auto loaded with Winchester 175gr Silvertips. Were I in a more rural area in which I had to worry as much, if not more, about four-legged perps as two-legged ones I'd probably opt for a 4" S&W 629 loaded with a good 240gr JHP. __________________ Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar

October 26, 2012, 05:26 AM	#57
Single Six Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2010 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,522	Unfortunately, my agency, like most others, requires us to carry what they issue to us. In my case, it's the Sig P220ST. To put it bluntly, I absolutely DESPISE that gun, and have found it to be about as trustworthy as a Democrat's promise. If given the choice to carry whatever I wanted while on duty, I'd happily go with an option you didn't list: Either a Ruger P-90, or perhaps the slimmer Ruger P345. __________________ Seen on a bumper sticker: "Exercise. Eat right. Take vitamins. Die anyway."

October 26, 2012, 05:59 PM	#62
Brian48 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2001 Location: Boston, People's Republic of MA Posts: 1,234	Was never a cop, but I have carried a sidearm on duty before. 1911A1, Beretta M9, and an 2.5 inch S&W Model 19 (while on embassy duty). The Smithie was my favorite of the bunch, despite being low in fire power compared to the other guns. I really wish I picked up a M19/66 snubbie while they were still making them. __________________ Proud to have served.

October 26, 2012, 06:04 PM	#63
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 8,612	There is a good way to show what I'm talking about. Go watch a bowling pin match. They have categories for both revolver and pistol. Disregard the better experienced shooters and watch the run of the mill shooters. See which group uses the most or least rounds to clear the pins off the table. You'll find the revolver shooters, with their limited rounds before reloading tend to use less rounds. They know they don't have 15 or so rounds so then tend to concentrate on fundamentals as opposed to mass fire to clean the table. Same thing in teaching kids to shoot, its best to use a single shot instead of something such as a 10/22 or other high cap rifle. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Oct '78 Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

October 26, 2012, 07:43 PM	#66
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 2,695	Glock 22/23 or 32/33 with backup of 27/33. And practice practice practice. Deaf __________________ “We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” Ayn Rand

October 26, 2012, 01:37 AM	#53
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 1,360	Of what is on your list, I would stick with the Sig P229. I currently carry a P220 for duty. I would rather have the 229 for the smaller platform and a few extra rounds in .40. With that said, I would LOVE to carry a .357 revolver and would not feel outgunned unless facing multiple BGs. Even then, I would prefer making my way to the rifle in the trunk even if I carried a Glock with a 20 round magazine. Coincidentally, I would carry my revolver in an old school thigh slapper with a smile on my face if my agency would let me. Alas, for duty carry revolvers are all but a thing of the past. In my agency, plain clothes positions (admin, investigations, and narcotics) are allowed to carry a weapon other than their issue as long as it's approved by the firearms coordinator. The only revolver he would sign off on is a J-frame smith. While I'm okay with that, I would actually rather carry a full size 4" revolver. That's too "in your face" I guess. BUT, I will carry what I'm told and not whine too much unless it's something I totally disagree with (like a S&W automatic... just not a fan).

October 26, 2012, 03:32 AM	#54
ftttu Member Join Date: September 27, 2011 Posts: 94	I carry a Glock 4th gen on duty which I personally purchased. Off duty, I carry an H&K P2000. If I was able to carry what I want, it would be a Glock 21 4th gen.

October 26, 2012, 04:49 AM	#56
dos0711 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2012 Location: Northeast, Fl Posts: 191	I'd take a Glock 21

October 26, 2012, 10:53 AM	#59
Comancheseven Member Join Date: October 5, 2012 Location: Colorado Springs CO. Posts: 34	Well said Kraigwy, as a Instructor with my old agency I have had to show people the door when they could not qual. in the Academy. 3 times to qual. then your done. Pray and Spray does NOT WORK. Dave

October 26, 2012, 03:20 PM	#61
LockedBreech Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,302	kraig, you're an icon on this forum and have helped me a lot in the past, I put a lot of weight in your posts and agree completely with your training-trumps-all point, that said, if I train just as hard, is it not better to have, say, the 15+1 of an M&P40? Or is your point if I'm properly aiming the 6 125-grainers out of my Model 686 I shouldn't need more?

October 26, 2012, 08:12 PM	#67
357 Python Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 576	I have 3 in mind that I would choose to carry if I could. They are my S&W 686-1, a Colt 1911 in 45ACP, or a Sig P220 in 45ACP. While I have never tried the Sig P220 I have tried the SIG SP2340 in 40S&W. Unfortunately I am restricted to the issued Beretta 92FS not that it is a bad choice. I just believe there are better choices out there.

October 26, 2012, 10:10 PM	#68
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,648	Glock 19, same as my edc because its what I like and right for my hands. __________________ SHTF vs TEOTWAWKI you ask? SHTF, just some crap on the ceiling and walls, TEOTWAWKI end of the world as we know it. Orignally made by 9mm/®™©

October 26, 2012, 11:04 PM	#70
AUG Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2000 Location: East TN Posts: 434	I would disagree that most on TFL are shooters as stated above. Most on TFL like to talk about guns on the internet. Very, very few would be what I classify as "shooters". Nothing wrong with that but lets call a spade a spade. Then again I sometimes forget every gun guy on the net claims every rifle he owns is MOA, is a great marksman, never loses a fight, and beats vegas everytime. lol

October 27, 2012, 02:36 AM	#71
DragonDog Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2001 Location: The Silver State Posts: 141	It's a bit of a beast to carry due to weight of all that ammo, but my choice would be USP 45. Regards, DragonDog

October 27, 2012, 04:04 PM	#73
doc51 Junior Member Join Date: October 27, 2012 Location: Houston,texas Posts: 6	prior law officer here. my pick would be the glock 22. hands down my favorite.

October 27, 2012, 06:01 PM	#74
Rifleman 173 Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2007 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 581	My 2 favorites are: Glock 21SF because I can carry a large .45 caliber round or a Glock 17 in 9 mm which would allow me to go for really good shot placement. With the 9 mm, I would practice doing the Mozambique shooting concept sort of like the Navy SEALs do with their 9 mm pistols. In addition, with the floor plate modification on a G-17 mag, you can carry 20 rounds of 9 mm ammo. And Glock will rush through repairs on a police gun if you let them know that your gun is used by an officer. Where I used to work, out of 70+ deputies most carried Glock pistols with Sig Sauers next in popularity. Glocks very seldom have problems but the 2 that we did send to Glock for repairs were back with us by the end of the week. But we had identified those 2 guns as being police duty firearms with the papers sent with them.

October 28, 2012, 04:51 PM	#75
bspillman Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2011 Posts: 152	in TN we carry a Glock when i was in FL I carried a sig 229. My vote goes to the Sig.