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Old October 26, 2012, 01:34 PM   #51
tkglazie
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Diameter of the carbide ring in MY Lee FCD, measures .470, this was checked at various places around the ring.

Diameter of MY cast bullets, both 190 gr. Lee semi wad cutter and 228 gr Lee round nose sized to .452. Measurement .452 at various points around the bullet.

Checked a random sample of cases for the case thickness near the mouth. These were from various manufactures. Ran from .007 to .011. Most measured .009, with .010 coming in second.

What does this prove? Any case with a thickness over .009 thickness is going to post size a lead bullet using the Lee FCD that I own and using cast bullets that I size to .452. That folks is a fact.
Wow, .470" is incredibly tight. No wonder you have no use for it with lead or even jacketed.

My FCD is just under .4715" and I consider mine to be on the tight side. I am planning to polish mine out to somewhere between .472"-.4725".

I think one of the reasons these FCD threads go on so long is Lee doesnt hold the tolerance on the ring anywhere near as tightly as they should. Someone with a .472+ FCD is using an entirely different tool than the one jcwit owns.
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Old October 26, 2012, 01:40 PM   #52
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BINGO! In my partictular case!
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Old October 27, 2012, 06:16 PM   #53
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First of all if you hear a horrible crunching sound using any die then there is a big problem somewhere!

If you need a certain size ring for your die, I believe Lee will polish one for you so you won't have a problem.

I look at the die as an "on the press" size checker. If I feel resistance as the round goes in then I know there was a problem somewhere else in my reloading sequence. I would rather catch a problem early then have 100 rounds reloaded that I have to later pull to correct.

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Old October 28, 2012, 12:59 AM   #54
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Quote:
Diameter of the carbide ring in MY Lee FCD, measures .470, this was checked at various places around the ring.

Diameter of MY cast bullets, both 190 gr. Lee semi wad cutter and 228 gr Lee round nose sized to .452. Measurement .452 at various points around the bullet.

Checked a random sample of cases for the case thickness near the mouth. These were from various manufactures. Ran from .007 to .011. Most measured .009, with .010 coming in second.

What does this prove? Any case with a thickness over .009 thickness is going to post size a lead bullet using the Lee FCD that I own and using cast bullets that I size to .452. That folks is a fact.
you really need to match the diameter of the sizing ring to the diameter of the chamber you are shooting that round in to have the post sizing ring work the way it was intended.

really the question you need to ask yourself is what is my maximum tolerance and make sure the ring is no larger.

in your case you need to use cases .009 in thickness or less or ream out the inside diameter of the sizing ring to closer match your needs.

the whole point of the sizing ring is to make sure nothing larger than the post sizing ring enters your chamber, which in theory leads to more reliability in feeding.
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Old October 28, 2012, 01:33 AM   #55
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you really need to match the diameter of the sizing ring to the diameter of the chamber you are shooting that round in to have the post sizing ring work the way it was intended.

really the question you need to ask yourself is what is my maximum tolerance and make sure the ring is no larger.

in your case you need to use cases .009 in thickness or less or ream out the inside diameter of the sizing ring to closer match your needs.

the whole point of the sizing ring is to make sure nothing larger than the post sizing ring enters your chamber, which in theory leads to more reliability in feeding.
You may be right, but I took a much easier approach. "Ever try to hone out a carbine cylinder with equipment found in the home workshop, even a home workshop equipped with a metal lathe and a small vertical mill?" Yes, I have "green wheels" but they are 6" or more in diameter and are made for use on a surface grinder, not an ID/OD grinder used on a lathe.

My solution after fighting with the FCD for maybe 6 months was to put a string tag on it identifying it as a 45 ACP Lee FCD and placing it in one of many drawers holding unused misc. stuff accumulated over 55 of collecting guns and gun related parts and tooling for my kids to wonder "What the he!! did Dad use this thing for" sometime in the distant future I hope.

Then to return to my original die sets and tweak the settings till I had a set up that worked for each and every gun, then make up dummy rounds for each particular bullet fired in each gun and label them so said seating could be returned to. All problems were and are solved in all my pistols chambered for the 45 ACP round, This encludes my Llama MaxI, Springfield S/S, Kimber S/S custom and my Ed Brown with match barrel.

Being as I never had a FCD die for any other caliber I have been one of those who have loaded thousands and thousands of 9 MM rounds in my pistols chambered for that round with no issues occurring. Must have been to dumb or maybe to stubborn to know my failings. This is my experience in 20 - 25 different pistols chambered for 9 MM.

The same applies to 32 ACP, 380 ACP, 9 MM Largo, 38 Spec, 357 Mag., and any other handgun caliber I reload for that I might have missed, after all it is 2:30 AM.

Best to all, If you wish to use the Lee FCD, have at it, personally I see nor have no need for it.

BTW, My feedings problems are zip to none in any of my handguns nor is the problems with leading when I returned to the so called "old" way of accomplishing my seating and crimping using the "old" system.

Maybe I'm an old fool, but I'm a Happy Old Fool.

And ALL of the above works just fine for me, Thank You Very Much.
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Last edited by jcwit; October 28, 2012 at 01:44 AM.
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:04 AM   #56
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If it works for you, keep using it. If it doesn't, then don't.
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:13 AM   #57
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If it works for you, keep using it. If it doesn't, then don't.
My final conclusion exactly!
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:39 AM   #58
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I use the lee crimp die in 9mm,.40and .45 auto. On .45 the die does not do much as long as I do not over bell the case. When I used to load range pick up
in .40 the FCD. die would sometimes size the brass if it had the glock belly on it
by screwing down the sizing die a little,watching case length and flare I have pretty much eliminated the post sizing and I have also accumulated a working supply of .40 brass that does not have a bulge in the first place. In 9mm it is pretty much the same story, I trim my cases,size properly, don't over flare and I separate head stamps and unless I use range pick up or military brass I won't get any post sizing but I scrounge brass like crazy and it is not uncommon for me to come home with a fair amount of once fired cases so I still use the FCD. I have never gotten any reduction in bullet diameter that I can measure. I think that the dies are tools that have a purpose in some circumstances just watch how you use them and you may find you like them.
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:53 AM   #59
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Reread my post #46 here

Quote:
OK Guys. I just now took the time to do some measuring.

Diameter of the carbide ring in MY Lee FCD, measures .470, this was checked at various places around the ring.

Diameter of MY cast bullets, both 190 gr. Lee semi wad cutter and 228 gr Lee round nose sized to .452. Measurement .452 at various points around the bullet.

Checked a random sample of cases for the case thickness near the mouth. These were from various manufactures. Ran from .007 to .011. Most measured .009, with .010 coming in second.

What does this prove? Any case with a thickness over .009 thickness is going to post size a lead bullet using the Lee FCD that I own and using cast bullets that I size to .452. That folks is a fact.

We can argue all we want, but those are the numbers. And I think I still am capable of knowing how to use a mike and calibers as my measuring instruments were used by me when I was a tool & die maker for 20 years.

I should add, overall I like Lee Products, I have issues with their scale, mainly because of the light weight, its hard for me to use. And obviously I do not care for their FCD. But overall they give an astounding good product at an extremely low price. My experience of their customer service is beyond reproach.
And anyone thinking I going to measure the wall thickness of 6 to 12 5 gal. buckets of brass when for all intends and purposes I have already solved the problem is just nuts.

Its obvious MY FCD die is way to tight. and being so I have no use for it.

Maybe in all of mankind I have the one and only one with this problem, What a collectors item. Maybe the kids will make a fortune on it at the estate sale.
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Old October 28, 2012, 07:35 AM   #60
the led farmer
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In the collective time it took for you to type your posts I am positive you could have found a way to ream out a few thousandths of an inch, even in carbide.
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Old October 28, 2012, 07:55 AM   #61
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Mine was JUST like JC's, and my solution was to simply pop out the carbide ring. It will now work equally well on my 45 ACP, 45 Colt, and 454 rounds depending on how, and in what press I set it up in.

There again, I purchased it on sale simply, like a lot of others, to see what all the hub bub was about. IT DID work fine with jacketed with no issues what so ever, as most of them are under the actual diameter I need to use lead with. But there again EXACTLY like JC, when I ran a lead bullet up through it they all came out sized down below what I need to avoid leading.

Pop out the ring, and problem solved for all future use. My standard die sets have no problem producing fully functional ammo for all calibers I load for, the FCD as simply something to check out, mainly to see if I could get a bit more consistency with a couple of powders I was playing with at the time I decided to pick it up.

I also use quite a few Lee products and can say in all honesty they work well for the money spent on them. I would not try and replace them with something else simply due to the price being higher and hoping for better performance. This said they have and do continue to have a few issues with tolerances, fit, and finish, in some of their lines. Does this mean I am going to ship my FCD back to them, nope much easier to pop out the offending ring. Now if it were a bullet mold, or set of dies out of whack, yep it would be on the way back ASAP, as I have done in the past.
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Old October 28, 2012, 08:53 AM   #62
jcwit
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In the collective time it took for you to type your posts I am positive you could have found a way to ream out a few thousandths of an inch, even in carbide.
First, its obvious you know know little about working with carbide.

Second, I solved the problem for myself a few years ago, not going to go to the trouble of even trying to resolve it again. Is there such a word as resolve, if not I'm sure you all know my meaning.

Third, collective time? Being as I have been an accomplished typist since the age of 16, I seriously doubt I have anything over an hour taken up by replying to this thread over the last few days. More than likely more time spent reading all the posts such as yours trying to get me to do something that is very hard to accomplish.

But then it does get my post count up!
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Old October 28, 2012, 09:26 AM   #63
the led farmer
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You're not reaming a half inch hole, your polishing a few thousandths of an inch.

You obviously completely miss the point, and it's probably better you leave your FCD in the drawer
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Old October 28, 2012, 09:43 AM   #64
jcwit
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You're not reaming a half inch hole, your polishing a few thousandths of an inch.

You obviously completely miss the point, and it's probably better you leave your FCD in the drawer
Have "YOU" ever at any time tried to polish carbide?

I have and its not something one does with crocus cloth.

This may explain it a little to those that do not believe!

http://www.finishing.com/430/77.shtml

I'm not about to rush out and purchase the diamond compound to polish out 1 FCD die. Just not cost effective as the problem is solved to my satisfaction.

Did I miss the point, NO! I believe its the other way around.
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Old October 28, 2012, 09:54 AM   #65
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I tried it with a dremel and the dremel polising compound. After about two hours, I might have taken .0005" out of the ring. But I'm not even sure of that.
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Old October 28, 2012, 01:38 PM   #66
tkglazie
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This makes my decision easier. Rather than touch the one I have I will keep that one for fmj and have Lee grind me a .472 or .4725 for lead.
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Old October 28, 2012, 01:58 PM   #67
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^ that makes a lot of sense.
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:07 PM   #68
the led farmer
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if you don't have the skills to do it yourself, you're better off finding a machine shop local. it won't take them long.

LEE CUSTOM WORK SUSPENDED
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:11 PM   #69
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^ I saw that and forgot about it. Must be nice to be a company like Lee Precision or Ruger and simply have more demand than supply.
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:36 PM   #70
jcwit
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if you don't have the skills to do it yourself,
I have the skills, I have the equipment, I do not have the polish and will not buy it to do the job. Furthermore I solved the problem as it applied to me at no cost and retired the FCD.
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:40 PM   #71
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^ Since you have made it clear over and over and over that you have no use for the FCD, and have taken up so much server storage capacity with your screeds, why not let the constructive conversation continue?
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:48 PM   #72
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^ Since you have made it clear over and over and over that you have no use for the FCD, and have taken up so much server storage capacity with your screeds, why not let the constructive conversation continue?
No more so than another member here trying to tell me how to solve a problem I've already solved. Thank you for your concern tho.
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Old October 28, 2012, 02:51 PM   #73
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That's too bad about Lee custom

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Old October 28, 2012, 03:06 PM   #74
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I agree with jmortimer, please get over it.
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Old October 28, 2012, 04:34 PM   #75
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It seems to anything technically useful has probably played out here. If someone has a reason for it the thread to stay open, PM me, but otherwise I think I'll just close it for being a source of needless acrimony.
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