The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

View Poll Results: AR vs. AK ownership / interest
More than 1 AR, no AKs 44 20.66%
1 AR, no AKs 44 20.66%
No ARs or AKs, but will likely have an AR within a year 10 4.69%
No ARs or AKs, but will likely have an AK within a year 3 1.41%
1 AK, no ARs 16 7.51%
More than 1 AK, no ARs 10 4.69%
At least one of each 65 30.52%
No ARs or AKs, but will likely have both within a year 4 1.88%
No ARs or AKs, and not likely to buy either within a year 17 7.98%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 18, 2012, 11:08 PM   #26
silvermane_1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: Burien,WA
Posts: 449
quote

"I've got a mini 14. That will work for me."

ditto, but i am considering the AR platform in .22lr, but a side question i have to ask would be if i do go with AR in 22lr, would i have the option to be able to switch the upper to a 5.56 cal.?
__________________
Ruger:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlin: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE
9mm 4",Springfeild:XD .357sig 4",CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63
silvermane_1 is offline  
Old October 18, 2012, 11:14 PM   #27
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,538
Quote:
"I've got a mini 14. That will work for me."

ditto, but i am considering the AR platform in .22lr, but a side question i have to ask would be if i do go with AR in 22lr, would i have the option to be able to switch the upper to a 5.56 cal.?
yes you can switch however it would be cheaper to get one in 5.56 and get the 22lr conversion for it.

the slight difference in barrel diameters makes it so you can shoot a 22lr(.223) out of a 5.56(.224) barrel however using the opposite will cause unnecessary barrel wear. so if you get the 22lr AR15 then you have to get a new upper half where as if you buy the 5.56 AR15 you only need a new bolt carrier group.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old October 18, 2012, 11:25 PM   #28
silvermane_1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: Burien,WA
Posts: 449
thanks for the input tahunua001, the main i reason i haven't bought a AR15 in the past was my buddy had a A1 model, and if wasn't run wet it would jam like with in ten rounds and you had to keep it clean, or FTF and FTE.
__________________
Ruger:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlin: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE
9mm 4",Springfeild:XD .357sig 4",CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63
silvermane_1 is offline  
Old October 18, 2012, 11:37 PM   #29
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,538
the AR15 design has been streamlined over the past 30 years or so. it's very rare to see one that acts like that nowadays. you still get the "sproing" sound inside the stock with a lot of them but I can't even remember the last time I cleaned my AR and it doesn't jam at all.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 12:36 AM   #30
bacardisteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2006
Location: maryland
Posts: 373
One arsenal ak and One Rock River 308.
__________________
Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF
bacardisteve is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 01:02 AM   #31
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Posts: 1,804
I've neither type, and have an SKS because the ergos seem a bit better than on an AK clone. My SKS has the fully-adjustable Tech Sight aperture.

When I saw the first part of this topic, I wondered how many AK owners bought the rifle before they ever read or heard about the Czech Vz-58.

My hang-up is that most open sights don't appeal to me, in contrast with aperture sights, and only like classic rifles with wood, versus dark plastic.
Ignition Override is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 03:03 AM   #32
AKsRul.e
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 234
Five AKs , Four ARs and an AR pistol.
AKsRul.e is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 03:28 PM   #33
Bigfatts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2005
Location: Lutz
Posts: 1,514
I have 1 AK, no ARs. Polish underfolder:


Had a couple ARs and they just didn't do anything for me. Had a poorly built AK that I hated. My brother-in-law just built an AK and shooting it I got to feel what an AK should be so I was interested in getting a proper one. Picked up the underfolder for a song and am stripping it down from what you see in the pic back to basic. Using the proceeds to fund another non-folder rifle. Can't wait to get another.
Bigfatts is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 05:54 PM   #34
Palmetto-Pride
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,927
Right now I have 4 ARs 0 AKs I had a AK a few years ago, but sold it. I can appreciate them for what they are but I prefer my ARs.
__________________
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

-Margaret Thatcher-
Palmetto-Pride is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 06:01 PM   #35
gizmo688
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2011
Posts: 113
1.5 AR's. I shot a Wasr import for the first time last week and was thoroughly put off. Feeling every movement of the action in my shoulder made me feel like it was constructed by an underpaid 3rd world teenager. Oh wait...
gizmo688 is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 06:10 PM   #36
Bamashooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2010
Posts: 1,711
I voted 1 AR and no AK but I do have a mini-14 to go along with my AR. I have owned SKS's and an AK in the past but I just really dont like the 7.62x39rd. I would much rather have another 5.56 to go with the AR than a 7.62x39 AK. My issues with the x39 are its underpowered. 123gr. bullet at 2300fps if your lucky. Communist ammo is garbage and quality brass cased ammo is overpriced. Im not saying there arent any out there but I have yet to see an AK that was more accurate than an AR. or my mini-14 for that matter.

Just my opinion based on my military and civilian experience with these platforms.
Bamashooter is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 06:24 PM   #37
p loader
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 1, 2012
Posts: 148
A few AR's, Mini, M1A and some odds and ends.

No desire to own an AK although I (like others) can't find anything wrong with the platform. I'd just rather spend my money elsewhere.
p loader is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 07:07 PM   #38
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,167
Quote:
My issues with the x39 are its underpowered. 123gr. bullet at 2300fps if your lucky. Communist ammo is garbage and quality brass cased ammo is overpriced. Im not saying there arent any out there but I have yet to see an AK that was more accurate than an AR. or my mini-14 for that matter.
Note, the 123 gr. 7.62x39 round carries at least 10% more muzzle energy and 60% more initial momentum than the 55 gr. 5.56x45, and thus hits harder at short range. Maybe my AK is the exception, and I'm not saying you can't do better with your AR or Mini-14, but I did shoot this 1.6" group with my Lancaster AK last weekend using the stock iron sights and "garbage" Communist ammo.

Interesting note... the 6mm PPC used for high-precision benchrest shooting is formed from .220 Russian brass, a round which was derived from the 7.62x39 cartridge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_mm_PPC




Interesting poll results so far... it seems that the total number of AR users is roughly double that of AK users. I had expected it to be more lopsided given the relative number of posts about each. Maybe it's the nature of the two platforms.

Last edited by spacecoast; October 20, 2012 at 06:05 AM.
spacecoast is offline  
Old October 19, 2012, 08:41 PM   #39
shoptroll
Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Location: Elizabethtown, Pa
Posts: 46
We built an AR for my son over the winter and I picked up an AK-74 in the spring. The AR is much more accurate with the peep sight and it's lighter and made with much more precision. It's also the Harley-Davidson of tactical weapons....meaning it's infinitely changeable to your tastes with a massive aftermarket. The AK blade and notch with the rear sight half way up the gun just can't match the peep on an AR IMO. Adding a red dot got the AK pretty close to the AR. The beauty of the AK-74 is it's just plain old cheap to shoot and fun! We reload for the AR. The AK steel cases just get picked up with a magnet and thrown in a bucket to haul in for scrap. Besides, if I wanted to reach out and touch something at distance.....I have a .308 bolt and a 30-06 bolt for that.
shoptroll is offline  
Old October 20, 2012, 07:06 AM   #40
mavracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 3,087
Quote:
Interesting poll results so far... it seems that the total number of AR users is roughly double that of AK users. I had expected it to be more lopsided given the relative number of posts about each. Maybe it's the nature of the two platforms.
Yes interesting, I believe the ARs versatility is the key.
__________________
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Quote:
originally posted my Mike Irwin
My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."
mavracer is offline  
Old October 20, 2012, 10:28 AM   #41
Yung.gunr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2010
Location: Phoenix area
Posts: 1,385
One Saiga in .223 converted to AK style. I really like it. My brother and Dad both have DPMS ARs. The only thing I like better about them is the weight.

I would likely buy an AR if I had the $$ for a mid range to high end one.

Someone else had posted asking how many people bought an AK before knowing about the VZ-58. I can say I am one of them. I think I would buy a VZ-58 before an AR.
Yung.gunr is offline  
Old October 20, 2012, 10:36 AM   #42
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,538
Quote:
how many people bought an AK before knowing about the VZ-58
I actually used a couple VZ58s at my local range back at Camp Allen VA. I had ordered my WASR back home on leave and it was waiting at my brothers house so I wanted to fire a "similar weapon". since all their AKs had been shot to death all they had on hand at the time were VZ58s.

talk about different mechanics. still accuracy was quite lacking(compared to M16) and I left with a bruised shoulder, not normally something that happens with small cartridges like x39. I will conceed that I still like the VZ58 more than AK platform but even with a solid stock with limbsaver pad on it I doubt I would ever buy one. it gets rid of a lot of the control issues I had with the AK but parts interchangeability is completely off the table since so few actually use the VZ58.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old October 20, 2012, 10:53 PM   #43
raftman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,889
Quote:
still accuracy was quite lacking(compared to M16) and I left with a bruised shoulder, not normally something that happens with small cartridges like x39.
Thank you!

It seems a lot of people go around saying that the Vz.58 is far more accurate than the AK, and that it has lighter recoil, and I haven't found either to be true and I've had two Vz.58's (one from CAI one from Czech-Point). Sometimes I wonder if they've ever had one or fired one, or if they're simply assuming it... or maybe regurgitating something they've heard from someone who assumed it. Accuracy seems about the same as you'd get with a decent example of an AK, and with the folding stock and no muzzle break, the 58 is nasty little rifle to shoot. I like them a lot nonetheless and would probably trade my AR for one (as long as it's the D-Technik variety, rather than CAI).
__________________
"My momma, she done told me, there's heart and then there's hate
If one of 'em's inside of you, the other one, it aint."

Last edited by raftman; October 21, 2012 at 12:06 AM.
raftman is offline  
Old October 21, 2012, 11:05 AM   #44
rugerfreak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2001
Posts: 819
1 AR--1 Mini-30----with plans for another AR eventually

Had AK's---don;t like em
rugerfreak is offline  
Old October 21, 2012, 12:21 PM   #45
navajo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2005
Posts: 105
preference

No AKs don't like them. Looking for another VZ 58, spend more ammo with it than all the rest of my rifles combined. 2 AR 15s and 2 AR 10s, Armalite of course.
navajo is offline  
Old October 21, 2012, 01:00 PM   #46
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
talk about different mechanics. still accuracy was quite lacking(compared to M16) and I left with a bruised shoulder, not normally something that happens with small cartridges like x39. I will conceed that I still like the VZ58 more than AK platform but even with a solid stock with limbsaver pad on it I doubt I would ever buy one. it gets rid of a lot of the control issues I had with the AK but parts interchangeability is completely off the table since so few actually use the VZ58.
Using the military issue folding stock, weren't you? I tried one after using the stock CzechpointUSA Sporter stock for some time, went for a Zahal folding stock, a far better stock that eliminated any recoil issues. The collapsible stock on the 5.56mm version seems to transmit more felt recoil than my Zahal stock. As for parts, Czechpointusa.com has every part you could need and more. Zahal and Mako stock aftermarket stuff as well. Yes, it didn't make a big splash with the Commie world when it came out - the Russkies didn't like competition with the AK. I have seen pictures of the vz-58 still in use in many dark corners of the world, and some not so dark like India. Still the currently longest serving original form select fire assault rifle in the world.

Quote:
It seems a lot of people go around saying that the Vz.58 is far more accurate than the AK, and that it has lighter recoil, and I haven't found either to be true and I've had two Vz.58's (one from CAI one from Czech-Point). Sometimes I wonder if they've ever had one or fired one, or if they're simply assuming it... or maybe regurgitating something they've heard from someone who assumed it. Accuracy seems about the same as you'd get with a decent example of an AK, and with the folding stock and no muzzle break, the 58 is nasty little rifle to shoot. I like them a lot nonetheless and would probably trade my AR for one (as long as it's the D-Technik variety, rather than CAI).
I assure you I shoot mine regularly, was plinking at 100 yards with the 7.62x39mm version at a 12x8 steel target and making it ring with every standing shot three days ago. Obviously this cannot be a real comparison of rifles, but the guy shooting a Saiga conversion, from the bench using the bipod at a steel target the same size as mine but at 75 yards...and missing it, gave me a LOT if dirty looks. I even had my friend who was shooting with me try it - she has fired perhaps 50 rounds of rifle ammo in her life, and she nailed the steel easily. No scope, 1X red dot. Like I told her, 100 yards is the minimum you should shoot a good rifle. I've used the 7.62x39mm version at 200 and hit a man sized target without serious difficulty, no magnification. I've used the 5.56mm version at 300 yards and hit the same steel target mentioned above, no video/photos, s feel free to doubt me.
I can say without hesitation that both of my SA vz-58 rifles are more accurate than any AK variant I have owned, which include Century WASRs and a Hungarian import, back in the early 1980s. I have never shot a top of the line AK, and wouldn't mind trying one sometime. I am also anything BUT a world class rifleman!

I made the following little goofy movie on the 80 yard line, just for some stock video, but it does show I'm shooting my favorite semi-auto rifle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9QgV...&feature=g-upl
__________________
http://czfirearms.us/ same original CZForum, new location.
armoredman is offline  
Old October 21, 2012, 01:27 PM   #47
droptrd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 315
Ive got 2 ARs in my collection. Both 556. I love shooting them. Ive just ordered a 6.8 upper.

I have no problem with the AKs. Ive just never got around to picking one up. I will own one some day though.
droptrd is offline  
Old October 22, 2012, 12:13 AM   #48
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Posts: 1,804
Do most AK or SKS owners know about the "Tech Sights"? This is the only thing I've ever put on a gun, other than a sling, and should have done it years ago. The original rear leaf sight can be re-installed.

Even just the increased sight distance is a heck of an improvement. If possible, it would not surprise me if they design one for the Vz-58.
Ignition Override is offline  
Old October 22, 2012, 06:52 AM   #49
Rifleman1952
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 246
I own two AKs; an Arsenal SLR 95 and a Maadi. I have friends who own ARs of various makes. The ARs are like fancy sports cars and the AKs are like pickup trucks. The ARs are finely tuned machines, expensive and accurate. The ARs, I have fired, have ranged in price between $1400 and $2400. If I could afford it, I would buy one. I purchased my Arsenal for $299 and my Maadi for $239, back in the 90s. The Maadi is a decent AK, and with a red dot scope, is accurate enough for social work out to 200 yds. The Arsenal, with a milled receiver and a sweet trigger pull, is superior to every other AK I have handled. With just iron sights it is as accurate as some of the ARs I have fired out to 100 yds. Now that could be just because I'm more familiar with it than the ARs. At any rate, my Arsenal AK 47 is the one weapon I own, that I would never trade or sell. It has also more than doubled in value since my purchase.

I own my AKs in case I'm ever in a SHTF scenario, like the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina or the LA riots back in the 90s or the recent London riots. High capacity semi-automatic rifles are "force multipliers." In a situation of great civil unrest and chaos, it is the best method to safeguard your home and family. Better yet, is if a few of your neighbors agree with that sentiment. I guess the bottom line is, if you can afford an AR, by all means get one. But the AK is a reliable, simple and dependable alternative for the rest of us.

Last edited by Rifleman1952; October 22, 2012 at 07:44 AM.
Rifleman1952 is offline  
Old October 22, 2012, 08:44 AM   #50
Carne Frio
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 28, 2008
Location: Near Fairbanks Alaska
Posts: 733
I have more than one of each and multiple calibers of each.
Both types are reliable and effective. Why limit yourself ?
Carne Frio is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13727 seconds with 8 queries