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Old November 10, 2012, 03:03 AM   #151
Jammer Six
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This is EASILY the most entertaining thread I've ever read on this board.
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Old November 10, 2012, 05:44 AM   #152
manta49
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Quote. StainlessSteel215
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Posts: 251 Hey Glenn, now you are purposely picking a fight with me, again. Whats up dude?

You are entitled to your opinion but you dont get to bully just because you are a mod. Reason #1 why I almost left this place the first time. I was PRETTY clear in explaining the 2 main reasons I choose not to carry inside my house. I'll make it 3 since you seem so interested....

1) I do not live in Syria. I live in Suburbia. I have adequate locks, ADT security, and live on a quiet street

2) I like to change into comfortable clothes when I get home. Sweats arent practical for a belt & holster.


3) I enjoy play time with my 1 year old daughter which includes rolling around, etc. Carrying a holstered Glock C1 isnt a smart move....so I keep the gun SAFELY tucked away near me at all times. In fact its 3 feet from my left hand as I type this reply.


I Am with you its up to you when and what way you carry your firearm. I am happy to listen to other opinions but when they say its their way or no way i stop listening.
Playing with your children in your own house carrying a loaded firearm is not a good idea i don't see how anyone can think it would be.
Lots of people feel safe and secure enough not to have a firearm in the house and that's their right to do so.
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Old November 10, 2012, 06:44 AM   #153
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I didn't read all the posts, but my advice for the OP is if you don't want to carry all the time, don't.

It's a right, not an obligation.

I carry when I want to and couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about the subject. Right now I am several thousand miles away from my nearest firearm, I don't have a knife, there are no armed guards and I'll sleep tonight without worry.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:42 AM   #154
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Wow... hadn't followed this thread in recent days, and now that I read it, all I can say is "wow"

Stainless, you sound really conflicted. It may be best if you simply don't carry at all.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:48 AM   #155
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OP: Everyone I know, who carries concealed, goes through a mental process, initially feeling somewhat uncomfortable or self-conscious about carrying a handgun. As time goes by, the more you carry, the more you practice, the more you train, those feelings go away. Carrying concealed becomes a natural part of your lifestyle. The sidearm becomes a tool that you carry for a very specific purpose. Eventually you will begin to feel uncomfortable, if you forget to carry. I rarely forget but it does happen on occasion. I don't carry in my home, but I do have ready access to a firearm if needed. Having worked in the justice system for 30 years, I have little faith in it now. Bad guys are released from prison every day and the system does an extremely poor job of both monitoring or holding them accountable.
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Old November 10, 2012, 08:13 AM   #156
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Good posts Manta, Sport and Rifleman, agreed with both of you. Why, why is this such a perplexity to a couple of you? Hey Sparks....I'm just fine with my notion of NOT carrying inside my home and I listed the reasons already.

@ Glenn...didnt see the little winky smile the first time. If it was a joke...ha ha ha. I took it as a dig. Either way Im completely comfortable with my method and not losing sleep over it despite how adiment some of you speak up against it. I have a child...I play with her after work & roll around....having a loaded Glock C1 at my waist isnt smart. Period.

@ Jammer, glad to bring a smile to someone's face inadvertently. I dont mind a laugh at my own expense but its when these old school guys get all ruffled at the notion that I think its ridiculous to carry 24/7 and attempt to belittle me with jokes about being "conflicted" or "scared" of my carry system. My system works for ME.

To each their own. Some of you guys are too much lol

Last edited by StainlessSteel215; November 10, 2012 at 08:22 AM.
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Old November 10, 2012, 08:30 AM   #157
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If you weren't scared or conflicted about carrying, I doubt you'd be putting as much effort into convincing us that you aren't scared or conflicted as you seem to be.

Just sayin'
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Old November 10, 2012, 09:14 AM   #158
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I have not read through all of these posts, so forgive me if this has all been resolved.

My advice to you is what I give to those who are scared to carry a 1911 condition one.

Stainless, for two days, carry your gun with the striker cocked, with a full mag inserted. At the end of each day check to see if anything happened while the gun was holstered that caused the trigger to be pulled.

You will see that while the gun is holstered, it is perfectly safe. Hopefully that will ease your fears.


(And when I tell people to try this with a 1911, I tell them to carry with an empty chamber, hammer back, with the manual safety disengaged)


Now, if I am going to be rolling around and playing with a child, then I do not want a gun that has a loaded chamber on me, either.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:11 PM   #159
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My mind boggles at this thread.

On a serious note, (now how could that be) - one has to have a firearm secure or carry in a secure manner. Wrestling with a child carrying a gun is probably not a good idea (rocket science).

It is another interesting debate about how far the gun is from you. Unchambered carry - now I think we've discussed that before.

Each person has to make their own reasonable decision. The Petit family decided to live in an upscale neighborhood. The dad was bopped in the head, the mom and girls raped and burned alive.

ADT and locks - someone who scopes you out will defeat them quickly. You are the last line of defense.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:31 PM   #160
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Quote Each person has to make their own reasonable decision. The Petit family decided to live in an upscale neighborhood. The dad was bopped in the head, the mom and girls raped and burned alive.

Yes we can all find stories to back up our views. And i am sure that i could find numerous occasions were people have accidentally shot themselves or a member of their family.

Example. Last week, a retired Chicago police officer mistakenly shot his own son after he thought he was an intruder. A Connecticut father also killed his son thinking he was a burglar.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:38 PM   #161
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Both examples point to the need of training. Buying various guns doesn't make you ready for SD in intense situations.

I recall a NTI FOF run where my partner came out and said that he 'shot' his son. Good guy targets get shot quite a bit at matches. I was 'shot' as a bystander by a SWAT certified officer in a FOF.

Thus one needs the training for a bit of stress innoculation.

However, if you don't have a gun at the ready - you definitely are the Petits. The shooting of a loved one is a failure to train and use sense in most cases.
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Old November 10, 2012, 07:43 PM   #162
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Quote:
Example. Last week, a retired Chicago police officer mistakenly shot his own son after he thought he was an intruder. A Connecticut father also killed his son thinking he was a burglar.
Manta, I am not aware of the Chicago incident, but I do know the details of the CT one.

If you were in that man's shoes are you saying that you would not have fired? That would be an ignorant thing, to say the least. All the father knew was that there was a masked assailant moving towards him with a knife. If your gun wasn't already in Condition 1, you would have gotten it there very quickly and fired.

That wasn't even a situation where training was needed, as Glenn said. The homeowner reacted just as each of us would based on training.
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Old November 10, 2012, 09:06 PM   #163
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The firearm that I carry is like the shoes on my feet...you just don't leave the house with out them. Ya never know because nowadays bad things happen at good places and its best to be prepared.
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Old November 10, 2012, 09:25 PM   #164
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When I first started carrying my LCP in a Desantis superfly pocket holster it made me a little nervous... at least the first few times. Now it's a habit. Rarely do I think about it, and when I do the thing kind of comforts me. I don't often carry inside the house, but I usually carry when I got out in public. I do carry with one in the chamber. This is just what I do, because it makes me comfortable happy (and that is definitely subject to change). No real point in further rationale, because we humans can rationalize just about anything we want.
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Old November 11, 2012, 06:38 AM   #165
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Quote. Both examples point to the need of training. Buying various guns doesn't make you ready for SD in intense situations.

Yes training can make a difference but does not mean someone isn't still going to be negligent. There are numerous occasions were so called highly trained individuals have negligent discharges. If someone decides to carry a firearm there are positive reasons for doing so. But there are also possible negative consciouses which are rarely pointed out.

The number of times that i see people advised to carry in con 1 without any knowledge of the persons abilities or their knowledge of the firearm they are using and any training they have received. I find a bit concerning.

Last edited by manta49; November 11, 2012 at 06:45 AM.
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Old November 11, 2012, 07:14 AM   #166
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Glen:
The Petit family case, in Connecticut, is one that still haunts me. It I remember correctly, the basement of the Petit home had an outside access door with a broken lock. The perps who committed this heinous crime, were able to walk right in without making a sound. I suspect gun sales went up in Connecticut, even to people who thought they would never own a firearm, after the facts of that case came out.

The Petit family horror was a worst case scenario, but according to the FBI, there were over 2 million burglaries in the US in 2011. Before going to bed, I check that the doors and windows are locked. I turn on an inexpensive motion detector/alarm and lastly, check my weapon.

Now, as it relates to this thread, the two perps in the Petit case were cruising around town, looking for victims when they saw Mrs. Petit and her two daughters. Often times, criminals select their victims in public places. I hate to admit it, but I'm a grey haired senior citizen now. That means a lot of criminals will categorize me as easy pickin's. My CCW is a small j-frame revolver, so there is always one "in the chamber". It took me about 3-4 months to get to the point where carrying a CCW was second nature and as normal as putting on a jacket or shoes. Even my wife, who is not exactly a "shooting enthusiast", says she is more comfortable knowing that I am carrying concealed when we travel.
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Old November 11, 2012, 08:10 AM   #167
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I carry with an unloaded chamber....hammer down on it with five very stout .45 Colt PD rounds behind it. The pistol is loaded 24/7, when I'm home it goes in the locked drawer of our night stand next to a good flashlight. It is checked each time it's taken from the drawer to the holster and checked before it goes back. We sleep tight knowing there is a 110 pound German Rottweiler named Bo that sleeps on the couch who will give me time to (or remove the need to) get to it. To this day, even when its my mother he keeps himself someplace between them and our 5 year old. You can't even touch a window or door knob without him alerting us.

OP, thousands and thousands of Police officers carry a loaded Glock every day. My wife carries a G26, for years I carried a cocked and locked Kimber 1911 and never felt unsafe...Think about it like this, would you carry a flat spare tire on you car?

Ultimately its up to you like other have responded. But for me, I've taken hours upon hours of firearms training. Everything from private lessons with LEOs, including some that were ERT and SWAT also a few private CQB lessons and pointers from a couple of rangers and a retired Seal. I've also taken NRA classes and a two P/D group classes hosted by a senior NRA instructor friend of mine. I continue with my weekly routine with my specific carry pistol. I'm not going to trust having a few extra seconds to draw and rack a slide when my family's life could be on the line.
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Old November 11, 2012, 08:34 AM   #168
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The mecanics of carry

As I see it, you have to live in a place where you can carry a pistol 24/7.

And that is not Belfast! Or Toronto. Or London. So people who live in those places can have opinions, but no practical experience what so ever!

As to rolling around on the carpet, with a small child? Carrying a gun? Makes no sense to me. Sitting on a couch last night, in my Son's house, with my two year old Grand Daughter sat on my knee, getting sleepy, with a solidly holstered Glock 19 under my shirt, no problem. Yes, a round chambered, there is no other way to carry a Glock 19, or G17 or G26.

And this reference to Israeli carry? With Browning hi power pistols, complete with magazine disconnect, that they used to carry, they had no round chambered. Reason, ultra safety conscious, around citizens in foreign Country's, El Al and diplomatic posts, for instance.

But since they went to Glocks, round chambered, in pants holster, two spare magazines.

As this thread is all about your individual beliefs, you have to ask yourself, for those free Citizens, whose Governments trust to carry a concealed, loaded pistol
24/7, as mine does. You have to ask yourself, why do you carry?

Well the answer, again, to me, is so you can shoot any assailants who threaten you, or anyone in your care, with deadly force. And shoot them dead.

The analogy I have used for many years, reference CCW, you carry car insurance in case you need it, not so you can go out and have an accident, the same reason you carry a concealed gun.

And not to carry a round chambered? Is akin to driving a car with no brakes.
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Old November 11, 2012, 09:08 AM   #169
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Quote. And that is not Belfast! Or Toronto. Or London. So people who live in those places can have opinions, but no practical experience what so ever!

Numerous individuals in (Belfast N Ireland )carry firearms for personal protection. And have a lot of practical experience in the pros and cons doing so.

Below the sort of threat that people here have to contend with. I Doubt he got a chance to use his firearm.

Black died at the scene from gunshot wounds after his black Audi car was raked with automatic fire at around 7.30am at the M12 turn-off of the M1. A blue Toyota Camry with a Dublin registration had driven up beside the victim's car while he was driving to work in Maghaberry top-security prison.

Even with the threat most prison officers chose not to carry a firearm and have the attitude and the courage not to let terrorists dictate to them how they are going to live their lives. Just the same as i will not let the very slim chance of someone braking into my house to do me harm will decide for me how i chose to lead my life. I would only carry a firearm because i felt needed to not because i could.
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Old November 11, 2012, 09:10 AM   #170
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manta49...you do realize that there is a "quote wrap" button in the reply box, don't you?

Quote:
Even with the threat most prison officers chose not to carry a firearm and have the attitude and the courage not to let terrorists dictate to them how they are going to live their lives.
I dont think that is courage. I think it is more like willful unpreparedness.
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Old November 11, 2012, 09:44 AM   #171
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I guess I'm waaaay at the other end of the spectrum. I just (as in last week) applied for my CPL after many years of dithering on it. I'm still adjusting the the idea of carrying at all, much less adopting a 24/7 lifestyle.

The biggest problem I face is practicality. I work in a "pistol-free zone" so right off the bat 60-70% of my waking hours must be gun-free. I infrequently go out and if I do, it is often to dinner or to a family member's house where a beer or two are typically involved - that knocks out another chunk or so my eligible carry time. Most of what's left is family time at home. I could carry there I guess, but I also have two young-uns who love to crawl all over daddy and rough-house. Guns are somewhat accessible at the house, but I have 2-3 points of interference due to the young kids (2 and 4).

I more-or-less got my CPL because I wanted the class and figured as long as I had the class, might as well apply for the license. There are also some convenience factors regarding transporting firearms and purchasing pistols. I suppose I'll toss in there I feel that I am helping contribute to gun rights by obtaining the pistol - I figure the more popular CPLs are the less likely the state is going to look at monkeying with them.

Break-ins are what concern me the most. I tend to keep things locked up (again, kids so there are always exceptions) and I am hoping that the noise and time required to break through the lock (even if it's seconds) will be sufficient for me to retrieve a firearm. I'm fortunate in that I'm a large guy in reasonably good shape so I am somewhat insulated by not appearing to be an "easy target" (although a crackhead I'm sure could express poor judgement) so I don't worry too much while out and about in public.

Hmm, that's getting rambley. I guess for me it boils down to this - some folks live a life-style where 24/7 carry is an option, but some don't. I think work and the addition of young children greatly compromises one's ability to carry (legally and/or practically). It's unique to an individual and how they want to adjust their lives around the possibility of nefarious people/animals and the responsibility of carrying a loaded firearm. I have friends who won't drive because they don't want to take the responsibility. I have other friends who won't drive at night or to certain parts of the city/state because they don't feel proficient. I guess I see CCWs in kind of the same light - you do what works for you.
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Old November 11, 2012, 02:46 PM   #172
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Manta:

Quote:
Just the same as i will not let the very slim chance of someone braking into my house to do me harm will decide for me how i chose to lead my life. I would only carry a firearm because i felt needed to not because i could.
I've read that the civilian gun laws in Ireland are quite strict, and that a majority of the population supports those strict laws. I couldn't live in a country like that. I sincerely believe that we all have a God-Given right to self-defense. I read several accounts of the recent London riots (where there is similar strict gun control) I was amazed at the accounts of law abiding citizens, cowering in fear in their homes, with no more than a hammer or steak knife to defend themselves.
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Old November 11, 2012, 03:20 PM   #173
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Quote. I've read that the civilian gun laws in Ireland are quite strict, and that a majority of the population supports those strict laws.

It depends what you mean by Ireland. N Ireland is part of the UK and the gun laws are similar to the laws in the rest of the UK.
The gun laws in the republic of Ireland are different.
People here have the right to defend themselves using whatever comes to hand firearms included.

Last edited by manta49; November 11, 2012 at 03:26 PM.
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Old November 11, 2012, 03:28 PM   #174
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Edit.

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Old November 11, 2012, 04:02 PM   #175
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Quote:
manta49...you do realize that there is a "quote wrap" button in the reply box, don't you?
Just a reminder. It gets difficult to know where the person you're quoting leaves off, and where you start. It's not difficult to learn.
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