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Old October 15, 2012, 03:10 PM   #1
wild cat mccane
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walthers to become cheaper

Since Walther wont be paying S&W for importing...will Walther products drop in price?

Perhaps not because of the cost of setting up their own import company...

Thoughts?
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Old October 15, 2012, 03:50 PM   #2
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No, their profit will just be higher.
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Old October 15, 2012, 04:42 PM   #3
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I don't see how their prices could drop very much. Walther's pistols (PPQ, P99, and PPS) already represent an amazing level of value.

H&K quality for hundreds of dollars less.
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Old October 15, 2012, 05:07 PM   #4
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I don't see why they need to tbh. Their prices aren't that much more than say a Glock but it could be argued that the quality is higher and the Walthers have more features. Their pricing on the PPQ and the lowering of the price on the P99 have been pretty aggressive.
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Old October 15, 2012, 05:22 PM   #5
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Gun sales are at an all time high, why would they lower their prices? Lower costs just mean more profit for them.
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Old October 15, 2012, 06:39 PM   #6
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They have to pay for their new import and service center.

I hope prices don't go up.
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Old October 15, 2012, 07:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
Since Walther wont be paying S&W for importing...will Walther products drop in price?

Perhaps not because of the cost of setting up their own import company...

Thoughts?
You answered your own question.
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Old October 18, 2012, 01:11 AM   #8
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I have my doubts that Walther’s will become cheaper based on my observation and or sales of accessories at gun shows in the state as well as Arizona, Nevada, Utah and New Mexico. Pistol holster sales in order of popularity:

Springfield XD series
Glock
1911 (brand of pistol varies but the holster is usually the same)
Beretta 92/Taurus PT92
S&W M&P
CZ 75
Sig
Ruger
HK
FN
Walter

Walther, IMO, has always been a low volume seller from the days of Interarms being their importer who went belly up around the 1990’s. I should know because that’s how I got my P5’s at a substantially reduced price from Turner’s. The P5 was a decent seller at around 100,000 units worldwide followed by their change in design to a Browning tilting barrel, the P88. P88 sales appear to have been dismal, guessimated at around 10,000 units.

The only Walther that has some degree of popularity at the shows is the P22, 22LR zinc slide and made by the parent company of Walther, Umarex.

Last edited by 745SW; October 18, 2012 at 02:35 AM.
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Old October 18, 2012, 06:25 AM   #9
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I think Walthers prices will go up. The PPQ is arguably the best polymer handgun you can buy and is already a steal of a price. A high quality German made gun is typically more money than what Wathers is currently charging. They could easily raise their prices and wouldn't effect the demand for their guns. I own two HK handguns and after comparing quality, I am not sure how HK can over charge what they do.?? Great guns but one could argue the Walthers is made better even if you took price out of the equation. I bought my HK's when there wasnt as much competition. Competition raises everyone's game and I would bet HK prices may come down to be more competitive.
It's been said earlier that Walthers is a low volume company keeping their standards high and a level of mystique. I don't think they want to go down the Glock road of mass quanity.

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Old October 18, 2012, 06:34 AM   #10
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I dont believe you will see any price change due to the change.
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Old October 18, 2012, 07:40 AM   #11
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The only Walther that has some degree of popularity at the shows is the P22, 22LR zinc slide and made by the parent company of Walther, Umarex.
I guess you never heard of the PPQ...
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Old October 18, 2012, 08:43 AM   #12
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It's been said earlier that Walthers is a low volume company
Maybe here in the USA but they are very popular in Europe.

Interestingly European forum members have reported that the PPQ/P99 are the same price as the HK P30 over there.

I plan to buy another Walther, either another PPQ or P99 AS, when I can get one without Smith and Wesson on the slide at a decent price.
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Old October 18, 2012, 09:58 AM   #13
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I hope they keep any added profits, enjoy their extra money for making quality weapons at reasonable prices and hopefully put some more into R&D to keep making great guns. Shoot a P30, PPQ and P99QA regularly, the P30 is my least favorite, I do like that its a DA/SA but feel Sig 226/229 has the P30 beat hands down.
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Old October 18, 2012, 10:29 AM   #14
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Shoot a P30, PPQ and P99QA regularly, the P30 is my least favorite, I do like that its a DA/SA but feel Sig 226/229 has the P30 beat hands down.
Weird, I feel the exact opposite. I still love SIGs, but I prefer the ergos on the P30 and the Walthers as well as the shorter trigger reach and lighter weight. But it's been my experience that most people shoot one or the other better.
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Old October 18, 2012, 11:46 AM   #15
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I wouldn't be surprised to see some of their prices come down, with S&W not taking a slice of the pie.

Either way, I expect Walther to get more aggressive with marketing, and I believe that we'll see them become easier to get.
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Old October 18, 2012, 03:57 PM   #16
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Either way, I expect Walther to get more aggressive with marketing, and I believe that we'll see them become easier to get.
Walther has been pretty successful in recent years with police contracts in Europe (mostly with the different P99 variants). I wonder if these are beginnng to slow down, causing them to look more toward the American market?

I'll also agree that S&W has been pretty terrible at marketing Walthers here (but very good at providing service for them). I believe it became even worse after the M&P was introduced (which frankly, is not made to the same level of quality as the P99/PPQ). I guess they S&W didn't want to compete with themselves. S&W did actively market the PPS fairly well, but with the M&P Shield out now, I guess Walther saw the writing on the wall.

.

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Old October 18, 2012, 04:17 PM   #17
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I hope it means they get a greater quantity of factory magazines and maybe a lower price on them.

I would like to get one to try but I am spoiled on $25 Glock magazines and being that I was scarred for life by the 1994 magazine ban, if I buy a gun I HAVE to get 10 magazines minimum to go with it.
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Old October 18, 2012, 04:37 PM   #18
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Shoot a P30, PPQ and P99QA regularly, the P30 is my least favorite, I do like that its a DA/SA but feel Sig 226/229 has the P30 beat hands down
.

Same experience for me. I own a Walther PPQ and more than a few SIGs. I shoot my PPQ just as well as my SIGs - maybe even a bit better.

I really want to like the P30 but so far I can not justify buying it but I will try again soon. It is a terrific pistol. TunnelRat says that the trigger on his new P30 is pretty sweet. I wonder if HK improved it with later model P30s or it is just luck of the draw?

Holding a P30 or PPQ is really sweet but so it my P226 with the SIG aluminum grips. So many great choices these days. ALL my SIGs have the standard trigger and not the short trigger you mostly see these days.

My latest toy is a P226 .22 conversion kit I put on one of my P226s. WOW is it fun to shoot a P226 for 4 cents a round.

Last edited by sigarms228; October 18, 2012 at 04:44 PM.
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Old October 18, 2012, 05:06 PM   #19
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TunnelRat says that the trigger on his new P30 is pretty sweet. I wonder if HK improved it with later model P30s or it is just luck of the draw?
I'll let you in on a secret...

I cheat. Seriously though I do my own trigger job. I replace the hammer spring with a 12 lb one from Wolff instead of the 14 lb stock. Brings the DA pull down a bit, but it's the same weight as HKs competition springs which also work but are much more $, so I have never had a light strike in a thousand rounds. I also replace the firing pin block spring with the light version, also available on HKparts. This takes out a lot of the stacking people feel at the end of the HK Double Action pull. Replacing the hammer spring is only as hard as taking off the backstrap, and the firing pin block spring involves me moving out one roll pin. Literally takes me minutes. Factory rated parts that make it so much sweeter it's a crime. Anyway, food for thought.
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Old October 18, 2012, 06:38 PM   #20
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The only Walther that has some degree of popularity at the shows is the P22,
or haven't heard of the PPS?
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Old October 19, 2012, 11:24 AM   #21
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Popularity at the shows is just that. Popularity in stores is another thing. It is hard to get a PPQ in 9mm right now, and it wouldn't sit in my case for a single day.
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Old October 19, 2012, 11:36 AM   #22
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Well, since the agreement for S&W being their importer was set to expire in 2013, and Walther has decided to set up their own importation, sales & service company at that time, there will probably be some changes somewhere along the line.

Walther and S&W will still maintain their business alliance in other ways, such as S&W still making the new PPK series for Walther.

Perhaps now that Walther has decided to do their own importation & sales, they'll invest more attention and provide more product to the US market.

I wouldn't be at all surprised that the start-up and investment costs of their new US-based business are going to have to be recovered from their sales of firearms, accessories and parts, though.

As an armorer, I probably won't be taking any more SW99/P99 classes, not unless Walther decides to try out the LE/Gov sales in the US. Once the M&P pistol was released, and S&W discontinued their SW99/990L's, there wasn't much demand for the 99 classes through S&W training, anyway. There have been some continued changes in the 99 series guns since my 3rd armorer class, and I've tried to keep up on some of them with newer armorer manuals and some info updates (PPQ, PPS).

I hope Walther does well with their new business venture, as their 99 series guns are a fine product that deserve more attention than they seem to have received over the years.

I also hope they increase the parts availability when they're shipping to their own/new company, as having had to wait for parts shipments from Germany to S&W/Walther America has sometimes been an exercise in patience.
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Last edited by fastbolt; October 19, 2012 at 11:45 AM.
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Old October 19, 2012, 01:11 PM   #23
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As an armorer, I probably won't be taking any more SW99/P99 classes, not unless Walther decides to try out the LE/Gov sales in the US.
I don't see that happening unless they build a P99/PPQ production line in the USA.
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Old October 19, 2012, 01:33 PM   #24
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That P99AS is a strange model. Some think it looks weird, feels different and operates different. I have one and she's a fine accurate, reliable auto. But I'll bet I couldn't get anyone to buy it used. I've inquired about selling it at LGS, but they all say, nah, it won't sell like a used Glock. I believe as another stated, the Walther market is in Europe, especially LE. I don't believe Walther in America has a marketing guru.
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Old October 19, 2012, 01:46 PM   #25
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I suppose they could always just do the assembly & tolerance spec checks here, instead of building manufacturing & production facilities. Worked for another European gun company for more than 20 years.

On the other hand, Walther's always put their emphasis on interest in LE/Gov sales in the international market. Considering the heavy competition in US sales for that market, I'd almost suspect they may "break ground" in the commercial sales market, at least for the time being.

Dunno. It'll be a little interesting to see how their own venture goes.

I'm wondering what they'll do with their warranty support for US customers. They've previously held to offering a 1-year warranty, with the exception of the PPQ, which, for American buyers, they offered a limited lifetime warranty through Walther America.

I imagine that's only one of many details to be worked out as they get their new business up & running.

I rather like the Walther 99 design myself, specifically what they call the Anti-Stress action. My own pair are actually SW99's, although I've serviced & repaired both the SW99 & P99 guns over the years.

As an armorer I've tried to keep up with the ongoing revisions and refinements to the design, especially related to changes which have resulted in some parts/assemblies being different throughout various production periods. Things like changes in the dimensions of the sear housing block, as well as the change from a steel trigger bar guide post to an adjustable steel trigger bar guide lever (not interchangeable among frames made for the different sear housing blocks).

Now that Walther is planning to import their guns for themselves, which I'd hope would indicate an interest in increasing their sales & product in the US, I hope they'll eventually consider making a compact version of the PPQ, if only for the US market. Last time I asked, Carl Walther was reported to have no immediate plans to design a compact PPQ (seemingly indicating there wasn't enough interest among LE/Gov buyers at the international level, even though they offer a couple other compact variants).

Guess we'll see as time rolls on.
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