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Old October 14, 2012, 07:25 PM   #1
jabames
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cartridges above 30-06

Hi, is there any cartridges that are a little bit more powerful than a .30-06 but not a magnum? Like with a little bit more velocity and less bullet drop past a certain distance.
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:21 PM   #2
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My first thought is .308. Better ballistics, shorter action, fairly common (plus milsurp). It'll be my next deer rifle.
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:24 PM   #3
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I think you're heading to wildcat territory:
338-06, handloaded, etc.
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:40 PM   #4
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Yeah, maybe a 35 whelen would be good for meh, or somethin like that. I can handload so tailoring a cartridge to my needs shouldnt be a problem.
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:43 PM   #5
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"I think you're heading to wildcat territory"
I agree
.308 is less gun so that is not the answer. You will be north of 3,00 ft lbs, so I'm not sure there is any where to go except to .300 win mag or something else you said you did not want. How much work you want to put into reinventing the wheel?
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:49 PM   #6
jabames
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Lol maybe my next gun will be a .300 win mag, Im kinda not sure what to get lol, I think that my 30 cal 180 grain accubonds will perform bettah with magnum velocities.
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Old October 14, 2012, 10:56 PM   #7
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The .300 mag has a lot going for it.
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Old October 14, 2012, 11:04 PM   #8
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.338-'06 and .35 Whelen are great if you want heavier bullets but won't get you more velosity/less bullet drop. Look into a .30-06 AI. It's probably the most common improved version and should get you a good 100 fps over factory rounds.
Also look into Hornadays ammo line , they used to offer what they called "light magnum" loads in several calibers, i.e. standard .30-06, 7x57 loaded about 100 fps faster than most. They are for modern actions only.
Good luck and keep us posted!
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Old October 14, 2012, 11:06 PM   #9
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Check out the .338 Lapua, depending on what 'certain distance' you're looking for.
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Old October 15, 2012, 12:49 AM   #10
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338 federal,
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Old October 15, 2012, 12:59 AM   #11
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280 is your best bet...smaller caliber, but fits your description otherwise.
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Old October 15, 2012, 01:08 AM   #12
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.280 what? the .280 Remington?
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Old October 15, 2012, 01:16 AM   #13
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My first thought is .308. Better ballistics,
Tell me how a case with less capacity is going to give better ballistics with the same diameter bullet.
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Old October 15, 2012, 01:29 AM   #14
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.280 what? the .280 Remington?
Remington or Ackley...
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Old October 15, 2012, 01:33 AM   #15
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maybe a .280 Remington, I wouldnt wanna spend the extra money on some special cartridge
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Old October 15, 2012, 07:49 AM   #16
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FWIW, the .280 Remington is the commercialization of the 7mm-06 wildcat - Remington's stab at a piece of the .270 Winchester's popularity/market.

"A little bit more velocity and less bullet drop" (than the .30-06) is a pretty fair description of the old .300 Super (.300H&H).



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Old October 15, 2012, 08:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Like with a little bit more velocity and less bullet drop past a certain distance.
Unless you are willing to go up to a magnum round nothing will significanlty better the 30-06. A 270 or 280 offers VERY slight advantages in trajectory, but with lighter bullets and less performance at long range, and on larger game.


Quote:
My first thought is .308. Better ballistics, shorter action, fairly common (plus milsurp). It'll be my next deer rifle.
Sorry, but this is a step down. The 308 is a great round and one of my favorites, but it shoots the exact bullets as a 30-06 but about 150 fps SLOWER, not faster.

Same for 338-06 and 35 Whelen. They shoot heavier bullets, but offer zeo advantages over 30-06 when it is loaded with the heavier .30 bullets. They offer very poor long range performance. And while they don't have magnum stamped on them, recoil is comparable to a 300 win mag.

The next logical step up over 30-06 is one of the 7mm magnums. They shoot flatter than 30-06, 270, 280, or 300 magnum and recoil is so close to 30-06, you'll probably never notice the difference. The 300's heavier bullets offer a small advantage in energy numbers out to about 400 yards, but beyond that the 7 mags not only shoot flatter, but hit harder. The 300's are also a step up in recoil.

I've owned them all. Personally I'd keep the 30-06. If you don't handload, take the money you would have spent on another rifle and start loading for the 30-06. It is easy to safely beat factory speeds by at least 100 fps with 150-180 gr bullets and good handloads. You won't need anything else.
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Old October 15, 2012, 08:16 AM   #18
Jim Watson
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Problem is, "a little more power than .30-06" is pretty much the definition of Magnum.

I can understand flatter trajectory, always nice in a hunting rifle, but what do you need more power for? Big bear?
Otherwise, I am thinking of a .270, .280, or at most 7mm Mag.
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Old October 15, 2012, 08:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
is there any cartridges that are a little bit more powerful than a .30-06 but not a magnum? Like with a little bit more velocity and less bullet drop past a certain distance.
We have to ask if you're talking about factory ammo or handloaded ammo. With modern metallurgy and better powders the .30-06 can be safely loaded to approach .300 magnum velocity. (By the same token, with the same metallurgy and modern powders, the .300 magnum can also be loaded to better ballistics.)

However, I find almost no benefit in doing so. The .30-06 is a capable cartridge even while cruising along at less than maximum pressure. My favorite loads are usually about 10% under max and harvest the game I want to harvest with no fuss. I realize that this forum is more than hunting, but if I wanted a rifle with a little more reach, I'd step down in caliber to the 7mm cartridges, or even to the 6.5mm cartridges. Better bullets, better BC, translates to flatter shooting downrange.
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Old October 15, 2012, 08:47 AM   #20
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Only four cartridges come to mmind..

.338 Federal (recently introduced have no experience with it.
45-70 using commercial loads and current rifle: Ruger #1 & #3 and Marlin 336,
( no Trapdoors not even the replicas)
.35 Whelan, that Remington made commercial back in late 80's
in the m700, (you can also rebarrel a current 30-06)

.444 Marlin in the Marlin 1895(?) lever action

Then you are into the magnums and wildcats.
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Old October 15, 2012, 08:50 AM   #21
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The .30-06 is such a well balanced round it really is hard to do anything better than it without stepping into a "magnum" round. I think there are a lot of standard chambers out there that match the 06 in a lot of ways but few are as flexible as the 06. My two favorite non 06 cartridges are the .270 Win and .338-06. I've tried most of them as I own or have owned the .25-06, 6.5-06, .270, .280, 8mm-06, .338-06, and .35 Whelen.


If you want the roughly same power as a .30-06 but flatter trajectory you're going to have to look at something like the .270, .280, .280 AI, or 6.5X284 for non wildcats, and the 6.5-06 or AI in but they are a hand loader only cartridge. Again the .30-06 is going to take over long range if you are using 180 grain or heavier bullets but you won't notice it until you are way past 500 yards.

For cartridges that are going to hit with more energy and bigger bullets at normal hunting ranges <400 yards you have several to choose from as well. .338-06, .35 Whelen, and 9.3X62 are all standardized cartridges and you can buy factory ammunition for them. For wildcats you have the 8mm-06 and you can AI version it as well as the the .338-06 and Whelen. I've never seen a 9.3X62 AI as I think the cartridge has a little steeper shoulder than the 06 anyway.

The .338-06 can do what you want but the .30-06 will eventually take over before or at 500 yards. With Hornady 200 grain bullets you can push them much faster than a .30-06 and you can push 225's about the same speed that an 06 pushes a 180 grain bullet. Hornady list the 200 grain bullet at 2900 max load and 225's at 2700 fps. I've got some 180 Accubonds to load up as well and I imagine I'll push them right at 3000 fps pretty easily out of my .338-06.


In wildcat rounds you have the Hawk, PDK, Gibbs, and too many others to mention cartridges that all provide more thump and speed but only marginally and still based on the 06 case. Most of them have the shoulder blown forward creating a much shorter neck and in standard length barrels only gain 100-200 fps over their standard counterparts. The Gibbs cartridge was designed to use a 26" barrel as measured from a loaded chamber not the breach face as most other barrels are measured.
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Old October 15, 2012, 09:18 AM   #22
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In the FWIW department, Federal's Premium High Energy loads will push a 165-grain Sierra HPBT to 3,150 from a 26" barrel.

It does Bad Things to coyotes:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...1&d=1135262262
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Old October 15, 2012, 10:02 AM   #23
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There are a couple of English cartridges, like the .333 Jeffrey, that would fit the bill, but they have never been popular here and are pretty much obsolete, which is a real pity.
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Old October 15, 2012, 10:52 AM   #24
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It always comes down first to what someone wants to do with the rifle/cartridge combination. Sometimes the first thing one comes up with (such as getting a 'more powerful' rifle) isnt required. A change in factory ammunition or handload may accomplish the job with the equipment you have.

Then again, sometimes a guy wants to get a new rifle whether he really needs it or not.
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Old October 15, 2012, 11:19 AM   #25
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I think that you're describing the 45/70 to a tee.
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