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Old October 13, 2012, 08:54 PM   #1
LaramieHirsch
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Nagant Corrosion

Howdy, all.

Just learned about this forum today. I think I have an urgent question.

I have a Mosin Nagant. I shot 20 military-grade rounds through it last Friday.

I took it home and cleaned it, but there was a lot going on in the house, and I couldn't clean it to greasy perfection. There was a tiny bit of black on the cotton when I finished up.

A week has passed.

I intend to clean the gun again tonight. But after a week of cleaning it last, do you fellas think there is severe corrosion damage in the barrel, now?

Is the gun safe to shoot?

Should I take it to a gunsmith, now?

Time to clean it again.


Ignorant of gun cleaning,
-L.H.
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Old October 14, 2012, 08:04 AM   #2
Mike Irwin
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There's no way to answer that question adequately.

You have to make that determination yourself through examination.

Corrosion from corrosive primed ammunition depends on the amount of moisture in the air (humidity) to activate it.

If the ambient humidity is low enough, the corrosion won't happen. If it's high enough, it can happen very, very quickly.

The only way to adequately remove corrosive fouling is with hot soapy water. The soap removes any oil or grease that might be in the bore, and the hot water dissolves the fouling.
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:37 AM   #3
amx4080
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Corrosion is due to salts in the power and primer. To neutralize the salts, use ammonia. Windex is a common source a lot of people use. Always assume surplus ammo in 7.62x54r is corrosive.
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Old October 14, 2012, 12:14 PM   #4
Mike Irwin
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Ammonia does NOT neutralize potassium chloride.

Ammonia contains a significant portion of water, which dissolves the salts. Ammonia also can remove oils and grease which is a benefit.

However, ammonia can contribute to hydrogen embrittlement of the barrel steel over time.
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Old October 14, 2012, 12:41 PM   #5
DnPRK
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During WWII, American troops were trained to clean their rifles 3 days in a row after shooting to prevent corrosion. They used a solvent that was formulated to work on salts from the primer mix.
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Old October 14, 2012, 12:46 PM   #6
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Wouldn't cleaning and oiling prevent the potassium salts from allowing the moisture to attack the bore? I would think so.
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Old October 14, 2012, 01:54 PM   #7
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Powder fouling left in the barrel is not an issue just as it wouldn't be with any other rifle.

Plain water (preferably hot) will dissolve the corrosive primer salt. Some guys use Windex, not really necessary IMO.

No way you did any severe damage to the barrel in a week's time, but you need to dissolve the salts completely, clean and then lightly oil the bore before you put it up.

Do a search, many discussions on this. Never a consensus (window cleaner, water, Hoppes #9) just like barrel break-in and "normal" barrel cleaning.

Me, I take a vial of Windex/water to the range and pour some down the breech after shooting, and then hot water down the bore followed by cleaning and an oiled patch when I get home when shooting corrosive ammo.

And.. don't forget about the boltface...
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Old October 14, 2012, 02:09 PM   #8
tahunua001
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quick answer is your gun is fine. I shoot surplus out of my mosin nagants regularly and only clean them every few weeks, I have no rust in my rifles, the rust takes a while to form, one week especially when it was already cleaned out fairly well is not enough to rust a barrel to the point that it's unsafe to shoot. maybe if you fired those 20 rounds and left it in a dank basement for a year it might but not after a week with a field cleaning applied.
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Old October 14, 2012, 08:14 PM   #9
kilotanker22
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I think you are alright these things take time. Also for future reference you can squire 7.62 x 54 r ammo that is non corrosive for very cheap. By the way that is one h*%l of a deer cartridge.
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Old October 14, 2012, 08:47 PM   #10
Jim Watson
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Quote:
Wouldn't cleaning and oiling prevent the potassium salts from allowing the moisture to attack the bore? I would think so.
No.
The report that identified the cause of barrel corrosion, after years of off the wall theories about "acid gases" from smokeless powder "in the pores of the steel" was titled "Corrosion Under Oil Films."

Corrosive primers contain potassium chlorate. This "burns" to leave potassium chloride, which is somewhat more reactive than sodium chloride = table salt.
I worked in R&D on fertilizers which use a lot of potassium chloride as a cheap source of potash plant nutrient. We were constantly on guard against corrosion whereever we could not use stainless steel. All it takes is water. it doesn't have to be hot, it doesn't have to be soapy, it doesn't have to have secret ingredients. Look how easily salt dissolves in water. That is what you are doing, dissolving and washing out salts. There is about 50 milligrams (.77 grain) of priming compound in a typical primer, not all of that potassium chlorate. It doesn't take a lot to get it out.
Wash, dry and oil.

WW II era GI bore cleaner contained soluble oil and water. Water to dissolve the potassium chloride, oil to protect the bare steel.
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Old October 14, 2012, 08:58 PM   #11
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"you can squire 7.62 x 54 r ammo that is non corrosive for very cheap"

And where would one obtain this "cheap" non-corrosive 7.62 x 54R ammo?
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:05 PM   #12
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I have the same question as above. I sure would like to find some non corrosive stuff. And brass cased to boot if possible?
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Old October 14, 2012, 09:11 PM   #13
the rifleer
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There is no flippin way you damaged the barrel in just over a weeks time, especially if you cleaned it last week. Did a little bit of rust form somewhere? maybe. Did you destroy your rifle? no way. Just clean it and it's fine.

In a weeks time with no cleaning whatsoever I would expect some mild surface rust at the most.
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Old October 15, 2012, 08:42 AM   #14
jrothWA
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Use HOT soapy water for..

cleaning the barrel and action and HOTTER water for flushing and drying from retained heat.
Then use standard solvent and oil for finishing.

Or locate and next gunshow old GI bore cleaner from WWII and use it.
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Old October 15, 2012, 08:55 AM   #15
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An old trick I use when cleaning black powder guns is to mix some soluble oil with hot water when you clean. The hot water evaporates fast, and the dash of soluble oil leaves a nice thin film of oil on the bare mettle surfaces.
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Old October 15, 2012, 12:10 PM   #16
kilotanker22
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My local shop has wolf ammo. Given it is Russian but the box says non corrossive. About 8 bucks a box.
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Old October 15, 2012, 12:17 PM   #17
coyota1
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I used to shoot wolf in my SKS with out a problem.
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Old October 15, 2012, 05:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
I sure would like to find some non corrosive stuff
Not as cheap as surplus (nothing is) but is made by Novosibirsk:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...Box&groupid=40
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Old October 16, 2012, 03:19 PM   #19
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You can never get a barrel totally clean...or you would be cleaning forever.
Before I use copper remover: I use cotton flannel patches soaked with Simple Green solution --- or a solution of --- 1/3 Simple Green, 1/3 hydrogen peroxide, 1/3 rubbing alcohol.

For some of my muzzleloaders, or breaking in a barrel, I use hot soapy Simple Green, and hot boiling water --- poured down the barrel --- so as too open up the pores in the metal, followed by cotton patches; and a oily patch.
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Old October 16, 2012, 03:39 PM   #20
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I took several M91s to the range. Shot them with the spam can Russian milsurp stuff I always use. Got home, cleaned them as usual...hotwater down barrel and over bolt assembly, then normal cleaning with Hoppes & light Rem Oil finish. About two weeks later, I goth them out again, was going to sell one or a couple. Pulled the bolts out and checked the bores...LO & BEHOLD ! I had missed cleaning one.... the barrel was full of fuzz. Ran a wet patch thru and it came out covered with rust. So, I cleaned as mentioned above and the bore came out looking as good as before...not bad for a near 100 year old, multi-war rifle. I have since shot it and it still groups pretty good, 3-4" MOA. The rifling isn't shiny or sharp....but I don't see any pitting, which is what I would call heavy rust damage. I have seen some old M91s that were area-pitted to the point where the rifling could barely be seen. Your rifle should be fine.
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Old October 16, 2012, 05:49 PM   #21
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I think you're fine. You cleaned it.
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Old October 17, 2012, 02:50 AM   #22
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Post #7 nailed it. Your rifle is fine. Just a little different cleaning procedure when corrosive ammo is involved. Enjoy your mosin nagant. They are very cool rifles. I have three.
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