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Old April 4, 2012, 09:17 AM   #1
Airborne Falcon
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G20 or EAA Witness?

I've been shooting 10 out of a G20 for a long time now. But this morning at the range I was on the line next to a fellow 10 shooter and he let me shoot his Tangfolio. Man did I ever like that weapon. The ergonomics were oustanding - very reminiscent of the way a 1911 feels in your hand. It just felt like it was the perfect 10mm platform for some reason.

I've gotten very accustomed to my G20 over the years, but I am temped to take the plunge and invest in a Tangfolio.

Here's my question. Anyone have any experience with EAA? I know they are made in Brescia - and I have always loved Italian firearms, own a few. They seem to be very niche market oriented. Not overly expensive but well made - solid. I liked the feel of that steel for a 10mm platform. I've done a little reading since I got home and EAA appears to have a good rep - but I cannot find much from actual owners anywhere.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Old April 4, 2012, 09:37 AM   #2
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I too have shot a G20 for years and had become very comfortable with the grip, however, a year ago I finally broke down and got a traditional 1911 45acp. I found that switching between the two platforms was awkward because of the differ grip angles.

Rather than dumping my custom G20L, I tried a simple addition that made the Glock's grip angle much more like that of the 1911; a $25 Grip Force Adapter. It worked very well and now switching between the two pistols is a non issue. Grip Force recommends that you file the adapter to fit your hand; something I've yet to do because I like the fit of it under my HandAll.

Just something to consider and at $25, it's a cheap and easy fix.

My custom G20L with a Hogue HandAll:



Note how the upper backstrap of my Springfield 1911 doesn't have that 'hollow' in like the Glock does:



See how adding the Grip Force Adapter filled in the upper 'hollow' in the backstrap making the Glock's grip much more like the 1911's:



Comparing my G20L with the Grip Force and my stock G23 shows the difference in the backstrap angles:

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Old April 4, 2012, 09:48 AM   #3
dlb0412
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I dont own one but i did alot of research on 10mms and it seems to be hit or miss some people have them and like them other people have alot of problems. Most people seem to agree that the glock is a better platform i just seen where the glock 20 gen 4 should be out within 3 months. If you choose the EEA post a reveiw on it please im interested in it.
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Old April 4, 2012, 10:27 AM   #4
Airborne Falcon
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COSteve ... thanks. Excellent pics to illustrate what you were explaining - and it makes a lot of sense. I've actually seen those before, just never thought of apply them because I rarely carry my G20. It's the only Glock I own in a safe full of SIGs, M9s and 1911s with the occasional revolver thrown in here and there.

My daily carry piece is a SIG P229 DAK SAS in SIG 357. But I do keep the G20 stashed away in the truck - it's a comfort piece I guess. But that darn Tangfolio sure felt good this morning. I was impressed, I really was. Transitioned right over from my land with my G20 to his with the Tangfolio so the comparison was instant. I'm glad they didn't have one in the shop right then and there ... glad I came home to think about it and ask around some first.

dlb0412 ... I sure will. If I pull the trigger on the thing, I'll be sure to do a comparison and review. I've actually got a range right here on my property but it was raining too hard this morning to shoot outdoors so I drove down to the indoor range - glad I did. But the guy gave me his business card. I may call him and see if he wants to come out and let my wife and I shoot that Tangfolio out here - let him shoot my MP5/10 in return ... and then I can make up my mind a little better and do a review nonetheless.

The crazy thing is that I've actually shot a Sonny Crockett Bren Ten and a Colt Delta Elite ... but neither of them stood-out to me at the time like this Tangfolio did this morning. I know that's odd given my earlier comparison to the 1911 and considering the Delta Elite is in the family, but there was something very ergonomically pleasing about that Tangfolio in 10mm. Just can't put a finger on it unless it is the weight.

I keep hearing about the Gen IV Glocks coming-out. Those should be interesting. I'm not holding my breath but I am looking forward to seeing what all the chatter is about.
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Old April 4, 2012, 11:32 AM   #5
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I have a full size steel frame Witness with the "Wonder Finish". I bought it as a 45acp, and later added a 10mm conversion kit to it. I have had no problem with my gun shooting either caliber. I do have the older more square type slides for both calibers which makes the gun heavier than the rounded slide guns. I have no complaints and would buy the gun again.
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Old April 4, 2012, 12:26 PM   #6
Dakotared
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I too have the full siez EAA witness with wonder finish in 10mm. It hits the hand like a glove I got mine off cheaperthandirt.com for $420 shipped to my ffl
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Old April 4, 2012, 02:00 PM   #7
Airborne Falcon
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Wow thanks guys. That is what I was looking for - some feedback from EAA Witness owners first hand. Much appreciated.

You can do that - switch from 45 to 10? I had imagined you might be able to switch between 10, 40 S&W and SIG 357 ... but did not take into consideration that the same frame could be used for 45 ACP as well. That might just seal the deal.

How much were the conversion kits, if I may ask?
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Old April 4, 2012, 04:08 PM   #8
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The guns are generally excellent, but Google "EAA customer service" before you buy one.
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Old April 4, 2012, 04:11 PM   #9
MrDontPlay
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You guys are gonna keep talking about 10mm until I go buy one aren't you! Next you'll tell me that I can use the 40s&w dies I already have!
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Old April 4, 2012, 05:42 PM   #10
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The EAA's have the worst reliability reputation of all 10mm's. I've known too many people who struggled too much to keep them running reliably for me to risk it.

There are a few 1911's chambered in 10mm that seem fairly reliable, but the Glock and S&W pistols are the only 10mm players that I'd put money on working reliably.
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Old April 4, 2012, 08:52 PM   #11
customizedcreationz
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I can't say anything but nice stuff about the EAA's I own and have owned.

I only had a 10mm for a short time, but it ran like a top.

Thanks
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Old April 5, 2012, 04:19 AM   #12
oldandslow
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AF, 4/5/12

This subject comes up about once or twice a month on the various firearms forums. Many are happy with their EAA products while some are really upset.

I bought two new EAA Wonder finished .45 pistols about five years ago. Due to corrosion issues I had them hard-chromed. At round counts between 2800-3000 with regular pressure ammo both experienced frame and slide cracking. I sent them back to EAA at my expense and they returned them back to me at my expense. No work was done on either pistol. Their excuse was that the "aftermarket refinishing" voided their lifetime warranty. None of the other nine pistols or rifles that I 've had hard-chromed has cracked.

So in summary- they were fun and accurate till they broke at low round counts and EAA customer service was nonexistant. I've followed the frame and slide cracking issues on other forums and it seems to be mainly the 10mm and occasionally the .45 pistols. Good luck with your purchase.

best wishes- oldandslow
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Old April 5, 2012, 05:16 AM   #13
plateshooter
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Airborne, Here is a link to the EAA site. My dealings with EAA customer service have been fine. You will always find some people who don't like a particular gun or company and some who do. We all have our own experiences and those are the ones we go by. My Witness runs great for me, but I don't run excessively hot loads through it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

http://www.eaacorp.com/
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Old April 5, 2012, 05:31 AM   #14
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My witness 45 been having some fail to feed issues. I bought two new mags from eaa. The current mag I have is at least 20 years old. I'll seem if that fixes it tomorrow. Otherwise the gun shoots fine and is amazingly accurate.





Stupid tapatalk turning my pics.
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Old April 5, 2012, 10:31 AM   #15
Dakotared
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Yes You can buy conversion kits. For the large frame you can get a lot of different kits, they are a bought $200 each. Some are less. For a .40 cal you just need a different barrel for a .22 LR you need a new slide. I believe you can get 9mm, 357, 45, .22, .41, and others.
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Old April 5, 2012, 10:47 AM   #16
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I bought a full size Witness P this winter (used). Mine was chambered in .45 but I will eventually buy the 10 mm conversion kit.

Mine was horrible on extraction and feeding when I purchased it. After doing some research I ended up with multiple recoil springs and a stronger extractor spring (all from Wolfe). You need to use the "appropriate" lb. # spring to your gun. I'm using 20# for beefy loads and #12/14# for target loads.

The gun now has 1000 trouble free rounds through it.

A piece of advice on some of the Witness forums that I will follow is to get the aftermarket recoil spring guide/system when I do the 10mm conversion. Sprinco I believe is the name.

They can also be magazine finicky but the new ones produced by Mecgar for Tagfolio are great.

I did order one spring directly from EAA and despite their reputation the part was in my mailbox on the other side of the country in a 3 days.
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Old April 5, 2012, 11:02 AM   #17
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Witness owner here

I used to have a Witness .45 that I bought in '94 from a guy I used to shoot with. Between us we put thousands of rounds through it with exactly zero issues. Recently I have added a Witness Hunter 10mm (6", single action) and two standard witness wonder finish, one in .45 and one in 10. My .45 has seen some action, but the 10mm was very lightly, if ever used. I love all three of these pistols a great deal and have already put several hundred rounds through each of them. The only problem I have is that the Hunter fails to feed the 2nd-to-last round from time to time. EAA said send them the mag and they'll fix or replace it but I haven't bothered yet.

My only Glock experience is with a 26 that I bought for my wife. Great gun, but IMHO it's no Witness. It's a tool. It's a screwdriver or a floor jack. It's a thing you buy to get a job done. If you laid the two on the table in front of me and asked me to pick one, the Glock may as well be invisible.

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Old April 5, 2012, 02:28 PM   #18
Peter M. Eick
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Had them both, sold them both.

The G20 has mag capacity, and if you replace the barrel you can shoot hot loads in it. The plastic frame was something I never liked so I sold it after about 4000 rounds.

The witness is built like a tank. Shot well, carried it in my truck for years. Accurate, reliable and I loaded beyond nuclear power loads in it. Liked the gun. Sold it also at about 6000 rnds fired. I just got talked out of it and did not like the fixed sights.

I finally stayed with my two 10mm 1911's and my big 6.5" 610. The 610 takes the hot loads, the 1911 are both for fun. Each is a custom 1911 speced to my tastes.

So my recommendation? Witness in the square slide is probably a better gun, but the glock if you can deal with the plastic frame is easier to get mags and parts for.
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Old April 5, 2012, 05:18 PM   #19
justin251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justin251 View Post
My witness 45 been having some fail to feed issues. I bought two new mags from eaa. The current mag I have is at least 20 years old. I'll seem if that fixes it tomorrow. Otherwise the gun shoots fine and is amazingly accurate.





Stupid tapatalk turning my pics.
New mags made it shoot like brand new again.
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Old April 6, 2012, 07:21 PM   #20
Joseywales3
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EAA Witness Match 45. You will not find a more accurate gun out of the box in that price range. I shot mine side-by-side with an HK full size. Keep in it could be it fits me better, but I typically shoot most guns to their potential. The Witness won, even if it was close. They both have polygonal barrels.

BUT, the Witness Match is a loud gun...no idea why and everyone at the indoor range noticed it was louder than other 45s.

My regular Wonder Witness in 40 is a great gun that I will never get rid of.
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Old April 6, 2012, 07:30 PM   #21
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Witness Elite

I have the 9mm version. It is the most accurate handgun I own. I thought about getting the 10mm conversion, but I want another Glock. Not trying to steer you either way, just both are great firearms. You won't be disappointed with the Tanfoglio. Why not have both? I will
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Old April 6, 2012, 08:34 PM   #22
justin251
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I'm calling witness Monday for a new magazine spring and if available the 22lr conversion kit.

I've shot a 1911 (don't ask me which brand) that was a 45 with a 22lr conversion. It was so neat to just swap the slide, barrel, and mag. It did however only function reliably with hot 22s like stingers or mini mags. Federal bulk pack was jam city. I predict the witness will be the same.
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Old April 7, 2012, 11:55 PM   #23
Airborne Falcon
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This has been great feedback men - and it is greatly appreciated.

I'm going to shoot the Tangfolio some more before I make up my mind but I did call my local buddy/FFL dealer who is also a EAA Certified Dealer and he's offering me a good deal on one ... almost too good to pass-up.

Since I already own the G20, I am leaning heavily towards splurging on the Tangfolio.
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Old April 8, 2012, 12:33 AM   #24
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I say give it a try. You won't regret it.
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Old April 8, 2012, 02:11 AM   #25
imsobored152
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Ive got the full sized steel witness in 9mm with a .22 slide. I love it. Fits my hand like a glove.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using tapatalk
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