The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 13, 2012, 04:08 PM   #1
presence
Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2009
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 50
Palmetto State VS Windham Weaponry

Torn between the 2 for my first AR. Both are in the $700-$800 range and both have a reputation for being the best "low cost" AR. Which do I give the green light? I want to eventually put a 4 rail forearm on it.
presence is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 04:29 PM   #2
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,707
PSA is the easy choice here.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 04:46 PM   #3
dos0711
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2012
Location: Northeast, Fl
Posts: 245
Windham Weaponry is the easy choice here.
dos0711 is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 06:27 PM   #4
bbqbob51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2005
Posts: 730
Windham Weaponry!

Just bought a Windham Weaponry special edition SRC from Cabelas. It has a laser etched American flag on it and best of all $10 from each sale goes to wounded veterans. Compared it several different manufacturers and it was the best in the price range. WW workers have a total of Decades of firearms manufacturing and make an excellent product.
bbqbob51 is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 06:43 PM   #5
DasGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2011
Posts: 318
Does Windham (formerly Bushmaster) use parts / testing that are at least up to milspec standards?

PSA does.
DasGuy is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 07:25 PM   #6
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,957
I looked at the specs and decided the PSA was the better gun. But I don't think you would go wrong with either. I have 1 complete PSA rifle with a PSA upper on a Rock River lower. The FN made 1:7 barrel was the deciding factor for me.
jmr40 is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 08:09 PM   #7
presence
Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2009
Location: Wheeling, WV
Posts: 50
Yes! Yes! Yes! This is the exact back-and-forth I wanted to see!! Keep it comin boys (and girls, maybe)!!

Thanks to all!
presence is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 08:44 PM   #8
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,707
Quote:
Does Windham (formerly Bushmaster) use parts / testing that are at least up to milspec standards?

PSA does.
That's why PSA is indeed the easy choice here.

Not that Windham makes a bad product. It's just that PSA offers a better product for the same (or less) money.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 08:57 PM   #9
plouffedaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,239
Very Good Windham Review Link

The best WW review I've seen yet above by Sturm. My experience with three of their rifles mirrors his; I just haven't gotten around to shooting a review yet...
__________________
Mrgunsngear's Youtube Channel
Certified Glock Armorer
plouffedaddy is offline  
Old October 14, 2012, 06:06 AM   #10
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
I think the new Windham is a good product, reviews I have read are all very positive. BUT, the PSA well have a CMV 1-7 FN barrel and a HPT, MPI, C158 bolt and 8620 heat treated carrier. In other words a mil-spec barrel and BCG and that is the heart of the rifle, the rest is window dressing.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old October 14, 2012, 08:26 AM   #11
dos0711
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2012
Location: Northeast, Fl
Posts: 245
http://http://windhamweaponry.com/pdf/UpdatedTechSheets/MPCMSRPPRICING.pdf

Windham Weaponry also has a transferable lifetime warranty against defects.
dos0711 is offline  
Old October 14, 2012, 04:40 PM   #12
RT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,191
PSA just because they have FN barrels
RT is offline  
Old October 14, 2012, 07:30 PM   #13
droptrd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 310
Mil-spec doesnt guaranty an accurate reliable firearm. Just sayin.
droptrd is offline  
Old October 14, 2012, 07:36 PM   #14
ripnbst
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 1,389
Palmetto all day erry day. For reasons already stated.
ripnbst is offline  
Old October 16, 2012, 07:26 AM   #15
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by droptrd
Mil-spec doesnt guaranty an accurate reliable firearm. Just sayin.
Core parts such as barrels, bolt, carriers, charging handles and RE's that meet the mil-spec well have a higher long term reliability factor vs the same commercial grade parts.

Commercial grade vs mil-spec, at the same cost, I would always go with mil-spec.

That does not mean we need to have mil-spec parts for a reliable rifle.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old October 16, 2012, 01:07 PM   #16
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,231
Windham Weaponry is the old Bushmaster company reopened as Windham Weaponry when Remington voided their deal by moving production to Ilion, NY.
Windham Weaponry is an excellent reliable and accurate rifle that comes with a transferable life time warranty.
My choice would definitely be the WIndham hands down without a doubt.

What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?
rebs is offline  
Old October 16, 2012, 03:00 PM   #17
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,707
Quote:
What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?
No AR is truly "mil-spec" unless it has a select-fire trigger group and lower reciever.

That said, there are benefits to the "mil-spec" components used by PSA, as compared to the Windham rifles, such as the M16 BCG (which in theory slows down the action and reduces wear & tear), the mil-spec buffer tube (which allows a wider range of aftermarket stocks) HP & MPI testing (which adds a little peace of mind), 1:7 barrel twist (which allows better accuracy when firing heavier bullets), as well as things like hammer-forging of the barrel (which allows for tougher steel).
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old October 16, 2012, 07:10 PM   #18
Bamashooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2010
Posts: 1,709
Sure there are benefits to PSA's milspec parts. They arent the only ones with quality parts and you probably wont have to wait for 3--6 months to get your ''milspec'' stuff.
Bamashooter is offline  
Old October 16, 2012, 07:27 PM   #19
highpower3006
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Location: Reno NV
Posts: 421
I did quite a bit of research and settled on the PSA. So far this rifle that cost me about $550 total has performed flawlessly. It is very accurate and has about 2K rounds through it with no failures at all.

highpower3006 is offline  
Old October 17, 2012, 09:06 AM   #20
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebs
What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?

Yes, they are.
My Garands, Carbines and half my M1A's are mil-spec, it's the way they come.

A mil-spec part is made in a specific manor with specific materials. In the world of AR's mil-spec components are generally of superior material and construction. IMHO what is important for the AR owner/buyer, is to know what the differences are between the two.

Just because these mil-spec parts are available for the AR does not mean you need them in order to have a reliable AR. There are more commercial grade AR's around than mil-spec AR's. For most shooters it makes little difference if the rifle is mil-spec or commercial grade as long as it goes bang when they pull the trigger.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old October 17, 2012, 11:47 AM   #21
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,707
Quote:
Yes, they are.
My Garands, Carbines and half my M1A's are mil-spec, it's the way they come.
Heck yeah!

Here's my true mil-spec Springfield Armory M1 Garand from the CMP.




Fishbed77 is offline  
Old October 17, 2012, 12:15 PM   #22
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 2,231
I was talking about Remington, Winchester, Browning etc regular semi auto hunting rifles. Not militry garands and military carbine's. Civilian rifles are not mil-spec and they work fine and last for years.
rebs is offline  
Old October 17, 2012, 02:52 PM   #23
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,707
Quote:
What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?
Quote:
I was talking about Remington, Winchester, Browning etc regular semi auto hunting rifles. Not militry garands and military carbine's. Civilian rifles are not mil-spec and they work fine and last for years.
None of those semi-automatic hunting rifles will stand up to the abuse that a Garand (or even a well-made AR-15) can endure, and still run reliably.

All that said, if I had the option of a relatively low-cost AR that used mostly commerical parts, and one that used mostly mil-spec parts (and cost the same money or less), I'd pick the mostly mil-spec AR all day long.

This is especially true when I walk into Wal-Mart and see a Windham priced at $999 and a Colt priced at $1059. For $50, it's a no-brainer.

Of course, there is a point when the pendulum tips in the other direction. There are high-priced rifles from Noveske and KAC that don't use all mil-spec parts - they use BETTER than mil-spec.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old October 18, 2012, 06:42 AM   #24
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,868
Quote:
Of course, there is a point when the pendulum tips in the other direction. There are high-priced rifles from Noveske and KAC that don't use all mil-spec parts - they use BETTER than mil-spec.
OK, I'll bite, what's "better" than mil-spec? A NiB coated BCG?
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old October 18, 2012, 09:20 AM   #25
Belve
Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 58
Psa is the way to go great customer service fast shipping and good prices especially when they have sales
Belve is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12997 seconds with 10 queries