Palmetto State VS Windham Weaponry

presence · October 13, 2012, 05:08 PM

Torn between the 2 for my first AR. Both are in the $700-$800 range and both have a reputation for being the best "low cost" AR. Which do I give the green light? I want to eventually put a 4 rail forearm on it.

Fishbed77 · October 13, 2012, 05:29 PM

PSA is the easy choice here.

dos0711 · October 13, 2012, 05:46 PM

Windham Weaponry is the easy choice here.

bbqbob51 · October 13, 2012, 07:27 PM

Just bought a Windham Weaponry special edition SRC from Cabelas. It has a laser etched American flag on it and best of all $10 from each sale goes to wounded veterans. Compared it several different manufacturers and it was the best in the price range. WW workers have a total of Decades of firearms manufacturing and make an excellent product.

DasGuy · October 13, 2012, 07:43 PM

Does Windham (formerly Bushmaster) use parts / testing that are at least up to milspec standards?

PSA does.

jmr40 · October 13, 2012, 08:25 PM

I looked at the specs and decided the PSA was the better gun. But I don't think you would go wrong with either. I have 1 complete PSA rifle with a PSA upper on a Rock River lower. The FN made 1:7 barrel was the deciding factor for me.

presence · October 13, 2012, 09:09 PM

Yes! Yes! Yes! This is the exact back-and-forth I wanted to see!! Keep it comin boys (and girls, maybe)!!

Thanks to all!

Fishbed77 · October 13, 2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Does Windham (formerly Bushmaster) use parts / testing that are at least up to milspec standards?

PSA does.

That's why PSA is indeed the easy choice here.

Not that Windham makes a bad product. It's just that PSA offers a better product for the same (or less) money.

plouffedaddy · October 13, 2012, 09:57 PM

Very Good Windham Review Link

The best WW review I've seen yet above by Sturm. My experience with three of their rifles mirrors his; I just haven't gotten around to shooting a review yet...

madcratebuilder · October 14, 2012, 07:06 AM

I think the new Windham is a good product, reviews I have read are all very positive. BUT, the PSA well have a CMV 1-7 FN barrel and a HPT, MPI, C158 bolt and 8620 heat treated carrier. In other words a mil-spec barrel and BCG and that is the heart of the rifle, the rest is window dressing.

dos0711 · October 14, 2012, 09:26 AM

http://http://windhamweaponry.com/pdf/UpdatedTechSheets/MPCMSRPPRICING.pdf

Windham Weaponry also has a transferable lifetime warranty against defects.

RT · October 14, 2012, 05:40 PM

PSA just because they have FN barrels

droptrd · October 14, 2012, 08:30 PM

Mil-spec doesnt guaranty an accurate reliable firearm. Just sayin.

ripnbst · October 14, 2012, 08:36 PM

Palmetto all day erry day. For reasons already stated.

madcratebuilder · October 16, 2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by droptrd

Mil-spec doesnt guaranty an accurate reliable firearm. Just sayin.

Core parts such as barrels, bolt, carriers, charging handles and RE's that meet the mil-spec well have a higher long term reliability factor vs the same commercial grade parts.

Commercial grade vs mil-spec, at the same cost, I would always go with mil-spec.

That does not mean we need to have mil-spec parts for a reliable rifle.

rebs · October 16, 2012, 02:07 PM

Windham Weaponry is the old Bushmaster company reopened as Windham Weaponry when Remington voided their deal by moving production to Ilion, NY.
Windham Weaponry is an excellent reliable and accurate rifle that comes with a transferable life time warranty.
My choice would definitely be the WIndham hands down without a doubt.

What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?

Fishbed77 · October 16, 2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?

No AR is truly "mil-spec" unless it has a select-fire trigger group and lower reciever.

That said, there are benefits to the "mil-spec" components used by PSA, as compared to the Windham rifles, such as the M16 BCG (which in theory slows down the action and reduces wear & tear), the mil-spec buffer tube (which allows a wider range of aftermarket stocks) HP & MPI testing (which adds a little peace of mind), 1:7 barrel twist (which allows better accuracy when firing heavier bullets), as well as things like hammer-forging of the barrel (which allows for tougher steel).

Bamashooter · October 16, 2012, 08:10 PM

Sure there are benefits to PSA's milspec parts. They arent the only ones with quality parts and you probably wont have to wait for 3--6 months to get your ''milspec'' stuff.

highpower3006 · October 16, 2012, 08:27 PM

I did quite a bit of research and settled on the PSA. So far this rifle that cost me about $550 total has performed flawlessly. It is very accurate and has about 2K rounds through it with no failures at all.

madcratebuilder · October 17, 2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebs

What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?

Yes, they are.
My Garands, Carbines and half my M1A's are mil-spec, it's the way they come.

A mil-spec part is made in a specific manor with specific materials. In the world of AR's mil-spec components are generally of superior material and construction. IMHO what is important for the AR owner/buyer, is to know what the differences are between the two.

Just because these mil-spec parts are available for the AR does not mean you need them in order to have a reliable AR. There are more commercial grade AR's around than mil-spec AR's. For most shooters it makes little difference if the rifle is mil-spec or commercial grade as long as it goes bang when they pull the trigger.

Fishbed77 · October 17, 2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Yes, they are.
My Garands, Carbines and half my M1A's are mil-spec, it's the way they come.

Heck yeah!

Here's my true mil-spec Springfield Armory M1 Garand from the CMP.

rebs · October 17, 2012, 01:15 PM

I was talking about Remington, Winchester, Browning etc regular semi auto hunting rifles. Not militry garands and military carbine's. Civilian rifles are not mil-spec and they work fine and last for years.

Fishbed77 · October 17, 2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?

Quote:

I was talking about Remington, Winchester, Browning etc regular semi auto hunting rifles. Not militry garands and military carbine's. Civilian rifles are not mil-spec and they work fine and last for years.

None of those semi-automatic hunting rifles will stand up to the abuse that a Garand (or even a well-made AR-15) can endure, and still run reliably.

All that said, if I had the option of a relatively low-cost AR that used mostly commerical parts, and one that used mostly mil-spec parts (and cost the same money or less), I'd pick the mostly mil-spec AR all day long.

This is especially true when I walk into Wal-Mart and see a Windham priced at $999 and a Colt priced at $1059. For $50, it's a no-brainer.

Of course, there is a point when the pendulum tips in the other direction. There are high-priced rifles from Noveske and KAC that don't use all mil-spec parts - they use BETTER than mil-spec.

madcratebuilder · October 18, 2012, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Of course, there is a point when the pendulum tips in the other direction. There are high-priced rifles from Noveske and KAC that don't use all mil-spec parts - they use BETTER than mil-spec.

OK, I'll bite, what's "better" than mil-spec? A NiB coated BCG?

Belve · October 18, 2012, 10:20 AM

Psa is the way to go great customer service fast shipping and good prices especially when they have sales

October 13, 2012, 05:08 PM	#1
presence Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Wheeling, WV Posts: 45	Palmetto State VS Windham Weaponry Torn between the 2 for my first AR. Both are in the $700-$800 range and both have a reputation for being the best "low cost" AR. Which do I give the green light? I want to eventually put a 4 rail forearm on it.

October 13, 2012, 07:27 PM	#4
bbqbob51 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2005 Posts: 568	Windham Weaponry! Just bought a Windham Weaponry special edition SRC from Cabelas. It has a laser etched American flag on it and best of all $10 from each sale goes to wounded veterans. Compared it several different manufacturers and it was the best in the price range. WW workers have a total of Decades of firearms manufacturing and make an excellent product.

October 13, 2012, 09:57 PM	#9
plouffedaddy Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 2,960	Very Good Windham Review Link The best WW review I've seen yet above by Sturm. My experience with three of their rifles mirrors his; I just haven't gotten around to shooting a review yet... __________________ Mrgunsngear's Youtube Channel Certified Glock Armorer

October 13, 2012, 05:29 PM	#2
Fishbed77 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 1,477	PSA is the easy choice here.

October 13, 2012, 05:46 PM	#3
dos0711 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2012 Location: Northeast, Fl Posts: 191	Windham Weaponry is the easy choice here.

October 13, 2012, 07:43 PM	#5
DasGuy Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Posts: 260	Does Windham (formerly Bushmaster) use parts / testing that are at least up to milspec standards? PSA does.

October 13, 2012, 08:25 PM	#6
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 4,491	I looked at the specs and decided the PSA was the better gun. But I don't think you would go wrong with either. I have 1 complete PSA rifle with a PSA upper on a Rock River lower. The FN made 1:7 barrel was the deciding factor for me.

October 13, 2012, 09:09 PM	#7
presence Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Wheeling, WV Posts: 45	Yes! Yes! Yes! This is the exact back-and-forth I wanted to see!! Keep it comin boys (and girls, maybe)!! Thanks to all!

October 14, 2012, 07:06 AM	#10
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,864	I think the new Windham is a good product, reviews I have read are all very positive. BUT, the PSA well have a CMV 1-7 FN barrel and a HPT, MPI, C158 bolt and 8620 heat treated carrier. In other words a mil-spec barrel and BCG and that is the heart of the rifle, the rest is window dressing.

October 14, 2012, 09:26 AM	#11
dos0711 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2012 Location: Northeast, Fl Posts: 191	http://http://windhamweaponry.com/pdf/UpdatedTechSheets/MPCMSRPPRICING.pdf Windham Weaponry also has a transferable lifetime warranty against defects.

October 14, 2012, 05:40 PM	#12
RT Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2000 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 2,188	PSA just because they have FN barrels

October 14, 2012, 08:30 PM	#13
droptrd Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 297	Mil-spec doesnt guaranty an accurate reliable firearm. Just sayin.

October 14, 2012, 08:36 PM	#14
ripnbst Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,038	Palmetto all day erry day. For reasons already stated.

October 16, 2012, 02:07 PM	#16
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 1,597	Windham Weaponry is the old Bushmaster company reopened as Windham Weaponry when Remington voided their deal by moving production to Ilion, NY. Windham Weaponry is an excellent reliable and accurate rifle that comes with a transferable life time warranty. My choice would definitely be the WIndham hands down without a doubt. What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?

October 16, 2012, 08:10 PM	#18
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,674	Sure there are benefits to PSA's milspec parts. They arent the only ones with quality parts and you probably wont have to wait for 3--6 months to get your ''milspec'' stuff.

October 16, 2012, 08:27 PM	#19
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Posts: 222	I did quite a bit of research and settled on the PSA. So far this rifle that cost me about $550 total has performed flawlessly. It is very accurate and has about 2K rounds through it with no failures at all.

October 17, 2012, 01:15 PM	#22
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 1,597	I was talking about Remington, Winchester, Browning etc regular semi auto hunting rifles. Not militry garands and military carbine's. Civilian rifles are not mil-spec and they work fine and last for years.

October 18, 2012, 10:20 AM	#25
Belve Member Join Date: October 2, 2012 Posts: 57	Psa is the way to go great customer service fast shipping and good prices especially when they have sales