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Old November 17, 2012, 11:07 AM   #51
Theohazard
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the M&P trigger reset; or, rather, the lack of one. In my opinion the M&P has a terrible trigger because it's almost impossible to actually feel the reset. Sure, I guess you can either slap the trigger or learn exactly where the reset is and hope you've reached it, but I prefer to actually feel that "click" before I start pulling the trigger again.
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Old November 17, 2012, 01:10 PM   #52
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With the new triggers that are being used this year, is that still an issue?
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Old November 17, 2012, 01:28 PM   #53
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I was once in your shoes, comparing polymer pistol brands on durability etc. The one feature of the M&P that swayed me away from S&W line was the trigger. I'm not sure if S&W improved upon it, but I couldn't get used to it. Other than that, the pistol felt reliable and durable enough to other polymer pistols within its price range.

I would not compare it in quality and function to an HK, though.
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Old November 17, 2012, 01:29 PM   #54
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Supposedly they're changing all the M&Ps to have a positive reset like on the Shield, but even the recently shipped ones that I've seen have still had the old trigger.
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Old November 17, 2012, 01:36 PM   #55
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Quote:
Supposedly they're changing all the M&Ps to have a positive reset like on the Shield, but even the recently shipped ones that I've seen have still had the old trigger.
That's unfortunate. I haven't picked up a M&P in a while, but if they are changing the stock trigger system, I might have to pick one up.

Maybe it's just me, but I like the audible click of a trigger reset. It helps eliminate uncertainty.

Last edited by Ambishot; November 17, 2012 at 01:37 PM. Reason: word choice
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Old November 17, 2012, 01:45 PM   #56
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Maybe it's just me, but I like the audible click of a trigger reset. It helps eliminate uncertainty.
It's not just you. For me I like the tactile feel of the reset....
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Old November 17, 2012, 01:46 PM   #57
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It was rumored they were starting with 45s in June. 9mm next. Then 40s. I'll be checking 9mm at my next shop trip.
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Old November 20, 2012, 02:33 PM   #58
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How can you tell the new trigger from old?
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Old November 21, 2012, 04:00 AM   #59
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How can you tell the new trigger from old?
You have to manually check the reset. Dry fire the gun, keep the trigger held to the rear, cycle the slide enough the re-cock the striker, then let up on the trigger. On guns like the Glock and the XD you feel and hear a distinct "click" when the trigger resets. On the M&P you don't. So far I haven't encountered any M&Ps with the new trigger that supposedly has a positive reset.
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Old November 21, 2012, 10:14 AM   #60
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Feel the reset is pretty funny.I have shot many,many IDPA,USPSA,Steel,and Bowling Pin Matches with 1911s,Beretta 92s,S&W 5906s both the regular 5906 and also my Performance Center 5906 and M&Ps both 9mm and .45.Now to the point I can't say after the timer went off that I ever felt the reset even on my high end 1911s.I think you guys make too big an issue out of something that is a non issue.I gurantee you if you ever have to use your pistol in a do or die situation the last thing on your mind will be feeling the reset.Oh and by the way how the heck do all us people that shoot revolvers deal with their reset.
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Old November 21, 2012, 12:53 PM   #61
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BILLG, well said!
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Old November 21, 2012, 01:40 PM   #62
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Are you open to another suggestion? how about the XDm which comes with 2 mags. 1 a 13 round which enables you to conceal carry and the other a 19 round for home defense. About the same size as a Glock 19.

Having said that, Glock 19 is regarded as the best rounded gun Glock makes.
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Old November 21, 2012, 04:05 PM   #63
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Having said that, Glock 19 is regarded as the best rounded gun Glock makes.
+1

My cop buddy is selling his 17 now because they just passed the 19 for duty.

I still prefer my variety.
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Old November 21, 2012, 04:11 PM   #64
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No way, Google "S&W dead trigger", also S&W bodyguard 380 had it. I don't trust the S&W M&P line now.
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Old November 21, 2012, 04:21 PM   #65
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Google Glock failures.
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Old November 21, 2012, 04:24 PM   #66
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Uh..Google any gun manufacturer failures.
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Old November 21, 2012, 04:29 PM   #67
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due to ADHD time requirements, this user did not read the entire thread

with that said,
is the M&P as reliable as the g19? I would say without a doubt, maybe even moreso given glocks recent debacles however glock still takes the prize for better trigger which is where accuracy is won or lost, a well placed shot kills more bad guys that an entire magazine of poorly placed shots.
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Old November 21, 2012, 07:48 PM   #68
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Well I laid a full size M&P next to a Gen4 G19 and liked the size of the G19 better. To me the important part of conceal ability is the grip height. As previously stated the M&P has the same height as my 17. I did like the feel of the M&P a little better, but must admit was more familiar with the feel of the Glock. I also agreed that the M&P felt a little slippery in comparison. I have a 26 and a 17 (both now for sale!) and both have been flawless so I went with the Glock. I also don't have to get all new holsters and mags and stuff so I am happy with that as well. Will break in in with IDPA this weekend and let you know what I think. As long as it works, I am sure I will be happy.

BTW the M&P in the shop did not have the trigger reset click. Thanks for your help everyone.
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Old November 21, 2012, 11:29 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLG View Post
Feel the reset is pretty funny.I have shot many,many IDPA,USPSA,Steel,and Bowling Pin Matches with 1911s,Beretta 92s,S&W 5906s both the regular 5906 and also my Performance Center 5906 and M&Ps both 9mm and .45.Now to the point I can't say after the timer went off that I ever felt the reset even on my high end 1911s.I think you guys make too big an issue out of something that is a non issue.I gurantee you if you ever have to use your pistol in a do or die situation the last thing on your mind will be feeling the reset.Oh and by the way how the heck do all us people that shoot revolvers deal with their reset.
Deserves to be repeated. I shot a dozen + guns, and pretty well, before ever learning that a reset was even a thing.
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Old November 21, 2012, 11:56 PM   #70
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I, too, shot for years without noticing the reset. But once I learned how to ride the reset my shooting improved noticeably. Now when I shoot any gun with a false or difficult-to-feel reset it bothers me and I don't shoot it as well.
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Old November 22, 2012, 09:28 AM   #71
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This is getting off topic, but by 'riding' the reset do you mean using a lighter trigger release and feel for the click as not to release to far? Seems like that would smooth things out. I for the life of me can't see how guys double tap 2 shots accurately in 1/2 a second!
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Old November 22, 2012, 10:02 AM   #72
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This is getting off topic, but by 'riding' the reset do you mean using a lighter trigger release and feel for the click as not to release to far?
Yes.

Another way to put it: "Riding the reset" is to immediately squeeze the trigger upon feeling or hearing the "click".
Quote:
I for the life of me can't see how guys double tap 2 shots accurately in 1/2 a second!
I actually think it's a double-edged sword.

A very short and positive reset makes it easy to double-tap extremely quickly, but my experience is that novices tend to jerk or slap the trigger too quickly upon feeling the reset, or worse yet, some may unintentionally fire a second shot by instinctively clenching their fingers under recoil. You know those holes in the ceiling at the indoor range? Ever wonder how they got there? Yup, this.

One benefit of the M&P's "terrible" reset is that it's very difficult to accidentally double-tap under stress.
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Old November 22, 2012, 12:17 PM   #73
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To the OP...

All the rhetoric and internet "truisms" (translated "BS") aside, do not discount the M&P.

My M&P 9 is over 4 years old. I have around 18,000 rounds through it. No malfunctions, no part breakages, same barrel, and still run the original two magazines.

I have extra recoil springs for it, but the original still works as good as the day I bought it.

I also have an M&P 45 Compact for EDC. It has also never malfunctioned, or had a part breakage. Not as many rounds through it as the 9mm though.

I don't know the complete number, but a lot of law enforcement agencies are moving to the M&P. Smith's website lists a bunch. Including Washington State patrol. WSP moved from H&K USP 40's to M&P 40's a couple years ago.

Don't misunderstand, I love Glocks, own them, shoot them, but the M&P series is "the" gun for me.
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Old November 25, 2012, 07:15 PM   #74
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Broke in the Gen 4 19 in and IDPA match today. 125 or so flawless rounds with Independence factory loads and was just as accurate with it as my 17. First shots were totally natural. Glad I made the choice. Thanks every one.
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Old November 25, 2012, 08:06 PM   #75
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Good call on the gen 4 19. It has become my 2nd favorite Glock, ever... surpassed only by the Gen4 G21.

I will say that in regards to the M&P... reliability I have seen has been totally on bar with Glock. Yes, the factory trigger is aweful.. however... if you drop in the full Apex Tactical DCAEK trigger kit for under $100... it becomes one of the best striker fired triggers on the market. In my opinion, only surpassed by the Powder River Precision complete match trigger kit on the XDM... but I wouldn't carry my XDM with this trigger. It moves about as much as a 1911. Beautiful and easy to shoot well with... but leaves no room for error.

With the DCAEK kit, you still get some take up, but it's perfectly smooth, and you can tell right when it's going to break. They also have the RAM kit, which will give you that same tactile and audible reset 'click' that you're used to on the Glock.

They are both great guns... I personally prefer the 19 because I'm more accustomed to the platform... but I have zero complaints about the M&P after you fix that factory trigger. If they shipped with the APEX kit from the factory, I think they could easily charge $100 more for the gun to cover the cost. Just my 2 cents.
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