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Old October 24, 2012, 09:25 AM   #1
kraigwy
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Rifle Shooting at Close Range

I don't mean to circumvent the closed thread below, what I want to do is point out that 25 yard shooting is a valuable tool for target rifles.

I shoot my target rifles quite a bit at 25 yards using the ISU 25 yard target. The 10 ring on this target is a pin size dot. It's quite handy and I find it gives better feed back then shooting groups.

The targets I use have ten bulls and two sighting bulls. I shoot one shot at each bull.

It's relatively easy to clean these targets with target style small bore rifles, its a bit different with your full blown center-fire rifles.

This is a great tool for working on your position and trigger control......all your fundamentals. It doesn't take much improper trigger control to get your hit off the pin size dot.

Something else I like to do, is set my ammo on the table or bench to the rear about 20 or so feet from my firing point. I shoot one bullet, get out of position, run back for a second bullet, get into position and fire it, then go after another bullet.

Do this for time, see how fast you can get back into position and fire the next shoot. Do this for 10 shots to see what it does to your shooting.

I also use cast bullets in my rifles practicing off hand. You can really cut down the cost of you practice ammo.

The 25 yard target is a great tool when you're working with new shooters. You can concentrate on their fundamentals before you move to distance and work on wind, mirage and other environmental conditions.
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Old October 24, 2012, 09:32 AM   #2
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Old October 24, 2012, 11:29 AM   #3
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Man I wish I could afford to hang out with you for a week, justing shooting and hunting things to shoot, man that's got to be THE life.
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Old October 24, 2012, 11:30 AM   #4
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When I mount a scope on a Rifle I get it on paper a 25 yards then move it out to 100 and fine tune it. 25 yards is handy for that, but for target shooting at that distance I use my Side Arm.
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Old October 24, 2012, 12:27 PM   #5
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Shoot rifles without scopes and the 25/50 yd target distances aren't so bad. Nice when 50yds is about as much as you can set up.
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Old October 24, 2012, 12:42 PM   #6
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I used to do the 50 and 100 small bore competitions. Never got into the air rifle. I could barely justify the feinwerkbau 22 cal rifle. I do know the targets you are talking about and the x'ring' is literally a dot lol

Nothing against air rifles, they work wonders on fundamentals. I just enjoy fighting the elements outside and the smell of that eley tenx
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Old October 24, 2012, 03:30 PM   #7
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I purchased a Daisy 953 for "off season" training in the basement. 10 meters is only 31 feet, so even on rainy days I can practice my position shooting.

Still, teaching folks to shoot is a lot easier at a 25 meter range where they can see the effects of shooting on the target than on a longer range where the environment can screw up an otherwise good shot. It takes the wind/mirage/drop out of the equation until the fundamentals are sound.

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Old October 24, 2012, 04:13 PM   #8
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I've shot my M44 mosin nagant at an indoor range... pop pop pop... BOOOM! It was like a camera flash in the whole range. I walked out and the people behind the counter were just smiling.

With that said, I don't think I'll do it again. Its pretty wasteful. I went because its really hot where I live and I thought the indoor range was air conditioned but it wasn't
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Old October 24, 2012, 04:21 PM   #9
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Another useful feature of 25 yard shooting is that you can walk over and see what you did in seconds. It beats jogging 100 yards. And the walk is free - as opposed to a spotting scope that isn't.

I also do two to three round rapid fire at 25 yards with semi automatic and lever action rifles. One to three targets. The pigs around here are quick.
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Old October 24, 2012, 08:12 PM   #10
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It depends on the purpose and type of shooting. A 25 yard shot on a pin head is going to be tougher than the 100yd shot on a B27 target.

That said, I may have sighed when I saw a guy with a scoped .22 shooting a shoot 'n see target at 10 yards.

I will occasionally practice rifle at 7-10 yards, but that is for speed, transitions, and reload/malfunction drills, not basic marksmanship.
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Old October 24, 2012, 08:12 PM   #11
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When I went through BCT in 1967 we first fired our M-14s on the 1000 Inch range to zero them, then went to the pop-up targets.
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Old October 25, 2012, 07:28 PM   #12
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Once pulling into a rifle range in the early 1950's, I heard a few very loud booms unlike any rifle heard before. Pulled in behind the firing line and this guy was putting four clay pigeons up on an embankment some 25 to 50 yards away. Then he walked back to the firing line and picked up his rifle.

He put two cigar sized rounds between the middle finger and the two fingers next to it in his left hand. Then holding to more of those huge rounds in his right hand, he picked up his Rigby double and loaded two .470 NE rounds. He just stood there holding his rifle at his side. His friend standing nearby said "Now" and started a stop watch.

The man raised and shouldered his double rifle, shot the first clay, then the second, broke open the double and as fast as the ejectors spit out the empties he had his other hand holding the extra two rounds in place chambering them. Snapped the barrels back into the action and promptly broke the last two clays. The stop watch read 8 point some odd seconds upon being stopped at the sound of the 4th shot. That's less than 3 seconds average between shots.

He told me he had to be able to do that in under 10 seconds or the guide he'd hired for his next trip to Africa would not let him carry a rifle. Clay pigeons are about the size of critical vital areas on the African big five, so he said.

I don't know if someone with a bolt action rifle for an equally powerful cartridge could do that. Maybe.
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Old October 26, 2012, 02:31 AM   #13
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This thread should get closed . If the other one did so should this one . All these great post could have been posted in the other thread but someone thought the topic was unworthy of TFL and all of us .

I posted in the other thread and said the guys should have moved as lanes opened up . Thank goodness someone else posted a new thread to help me understand that there are very legitimate reasons for long guns to be at a 25 yard range . I still would have been PO , but hey they paid too .

There is a 25yd in door range with in 2 miles of me . I never take my long guns ( 223 or bigger )there cus I always felt it was a waist of time and ammo . Thanks now I don't have to go 50 miles each way to the big range just to get some work in .
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Old October 26, 2012, 08:17 AM   #14
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I have a indoor range a few miles away and I use it almost every weekday 3-4 months of cold weather each year. In fact I do more shooting in the winter than I do the summer. I just got the .22's out for the winter season.

This is all 10-25yds but still challenging with the rimfires.
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Old October 26, 2012, 11:29 AM   #15
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If I saw someone shooting a centerfire rifle at 25 yards, from a bench, for more than a few shots, I would suspect they were shooting groups to photograph and post on an internet gun forum.
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Old October 26, 2012, 12:00 PM   #16
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Close is useful

Nothing above pistol allowed in local indoor range. The noise would kill or maim anyway. Outside is a little better. I totally understand the importance of up close and personal rifle practice. It's harder than it looks, when you have multiple targets, and there's no time to spit. Let's go hawgin. That's when point shooting pays off. We tried some of the new orange plastic reaction targets. They couple just enough to hop about quite energetically, without getting blown to rags. I think they'll last pretty good, after the workout they took with minimal damage.
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Old October 26, 2012, 12:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
He told me he had to be able to do that in under 10 seconds or the guide he'd hired for his next trip to Africa would not let him carry a rifle. Clay pigeons are about the size of critical vital areas on the African big five, so he said.
Cool story.
Now, if they could only simulate a leopard charging at him from that distance...then see how he does

Some of these guys do some crazy chit..like bowhunting cape buffalo...
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Old October 26, 2012, 12:23 PM   #18
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Quote: Some of these guys do some crazy ---- like bowhunting cape buffalo.

There is no remote chance I would hijack the captains thread, but I have seen a clip of video where Tim Wells head shoots a BIG brown bear with his bow and drops it right there. I'm talking a 9 ft or bigger brown bear,,,,,, that was walking!! yes some hunters Can shoot better than most because they practice at ALL RANGES!!!!!
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Old October 26, 2012, 05:28 PM   #19
kraigwy
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Quote:
He told me he had to be able to do that in under 10 seconds or the guide he'd hired for his next trip to Africa would not let him carry a rifle. Clay pigeons are about the size of critical vital areas on the African big five, so he said.

Cool story.
Now, if they could only simulate a leopard charging at him from that distance...then see how he does
They do have ranges/matches where a plywood, "dangerous game" target comes at you out of the brush and 50 yards and less. You have to hit them in a vital spot for it to count. You have to use a heavy "African" type rifle with full loads.

Forgot where they have them, I saw it on one of those outdoor hunting shows. It look quite challenging.
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Old October 26, 2012, 08:39 PM   #20
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Do you use a high powered scope lol? Look if you need to practice for hours to shoot something 25 yards away with a rifle and high power scope I don't know what to tell you. More power to you
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Old October 26, 2012, 09:55 PM   #21
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Don't laugh, hunting ants at 7 yards is quite challenging, though most folks use an air rifle for such close in work.

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Old October 26, 2012, 11:18 PM   #22
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when I was a kid, my cousin and I use to try to light wooden matches at 20 feet with our air rifles, and later 22s. We broke a lot of heads off those matches, but we never succeeded in lighting one. We sure had a great time.
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Old October 27, 2012, 06:55 AM   #23
kraigwy
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Quote:
If I saw someone shooting a centerfire rifle at 25 yards, from a bench, for more than a few shots, I would suspect they were shooting groups to photograph and post on an internet gun forum.
Quote:
Do you use a high powered scope lol? Look if you need to practice for hours to shoot something 25 yards away with a rifle and high power scope I don't know what to tell you. More power to you
You guys need to google "DOT DRILLS" shot from 25 to 100 yards, or simply try to clean the 50" ISU (International) Small Bore targets with your hunting rifle and get back to me.

Not from the bench, but from your normal "hunting" positions, prone, kneeling, and standing.

Don't discount the value of short range, reduced target training for you rifle shooting.

It's all about working on your Marksmanship Fundamentals.
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Old October 27, 2012, 10:00 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldbeer
Do you use a high powered scope lol? Look if you need to practice for hours to shoot something 25 yards away with a rifle and high power scope I don't know what to tell you. More power to you
So you are so good a shot you don't need to improve? How nice for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigwy
try to clean the 50" ISU (International) Small Bore target
For reference, here are the ring sizes of the NRA version of that target:

NRA/USAS-50 - 12 bullseyes (2 for sighting) 50 meter International Smallbore Rifle Target reduced for firing at 50 feet. 3 through 10 rings black.
10 ring . . . . . . . . 0.76mm
9 ring . . . . . . . . . 4.12mm
8 ring . . . . . . . . . 9.00mm
7 ring . . . . . . . . 13.87mm
6 ring . . . . . . . . 18.75mm
5 ring . . . . . . . . 23.63mm
4 ring . . . . . . . . 28.50mm
3 ring . . . . . . . . 33.38mm

In your life, you will run in to guys that you should listen to, and those you shouldn't. kraigwy is one of the guys you should listen to.
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Old October 27, 2012, 11:54 PM   #25
johnwilliamson062
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I've shot a lot of rimfire rifle at 25 yards to work on fundamentals. I guess if I were a rich man I would have shot lots of centerfire at 25 yards.
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