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Old October 10, 2012, 10:33 AM   #1
BarryLee
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Cook County Violence Tax

Cook County politicians are considering adding a “Violence tax” to the sale of guns and ammunition to help reduce gun violence and offset the cost. These costs include medical cost of the uninsured shooting victim and the cost of incarceration of criminals.

I fear we could see more of this as Politicians look for ways to implement stealth gun control and to close their budget gaps. The average citizen might support the 2A, but may not really be concerned about increased taxes on guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.

http://www.suntimes.com/15644719-761...mmunition.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...guns-and-ammo/
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Last edited by BarryLee; October 11, 2012 at 02:38 PM.
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Old October 10, 2012, 10:51 AM   #2
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Backwards approach to the stated problems. Undercover approach to gun control.
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Old October 10, 2012, 11:09 AM   #3
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I find it interesting that one of the proponents admits that its not actually about or likely to generate substantial revenue but is a form of violence reduction. One would think they would stick to the revenue opportunity song and dance.

I would be interested to see the report that states 1/3 of guns recovered on the streets came from suburban gun shops. I wonder if that is guns used by and possessed by criminals, or includes guns possessed by criminals that were recently stolen and recovered. Either way I find the initial statement to be misleading as the suburbs are the closest place for legal Chicago firearm owners to purchase or receive firearms.

When I lived in Chicago I usually stocked up on ammo at Cabela's in IN, since it was much cheaper than buying ammo at the range even including the gas to get there.
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Old October 10, 2012, 12:05 PM   #4
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So if one has paid the tax are they then entitled to commit violence? I pay income and sales tax, social security, medicare, etc, which entitles me to certain benefits derived from those taxes - should the same be true for this violence tax?

Sounds about as useful as nipples on body armor - about what I'd expect from politicians
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Old October 10, 2012, 12:21 PM   #5
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Out of town shops selling guns or ammo have got to like it.
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Old October 10, 2012, 12:28 PM   #6
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a prostitution tax for condoms,
a burglary tax on lock pick sets and crow bars,
a speeding tax for all sports cars,
an addiction tax for all narcotic prescriptions,
I could go on, but you see my point.

What kind of reasoning leads to taxing of a legal product because of its potential illegal use? I'm baffled by their actions.Is this the same reasoning behind limiting the size of a sugared drink containers?

Maybe we need a cholesterol tax on donuts too.
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Old October 10, 2012, 12:46 PM   #7
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^^^^^^^ +1

Call me sensitive but I find it offensive that certain people still can't get it through their thick well to do skulls that legal gun ownership; especially in Illinois where you must go through a background check to get a FOID card has about as much to do with gang related violent crime as home ownership has to do with arson related house fires. You do not tax home ownership to pay for the cost of arson investigations and the treatment of arson victims.

The stated issue is that the County run hospitals cannot afford to keep paying for the indigent who are typically the victims of this gang related violence. The easiest solution would be to get the county out of the healthcare business. Sell off the hospitals to private industry and let them deal with it. The problem with that is Cook county is not much about cutting state/local government jobs/spending.

Interesting facts about Illinois from a study I dug up.
In chicago the top 5 employers are

1. U.S. Government 55,183
2. Chicago Public Schools 39,667
3. City of Chicago 31,307
4. Cook County 21,785

5. Advocate Health Care 18,485

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/secti...=@pGKJyF3ZKmUM


Another interesting fact: All this is going to do is really hurt business for the few suburban gun stores left. You can drive an extra 15-30 mins and end up at a number of gun shops and ranges outside of Cook County; I really feel bad for one place in perticular which is in the process of expanding.
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Old October 10, 2012, 02:01 PM   #8
sigcurious
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Patriot86, while I agree with your general sentiment, the employment data isn't very indicative of anything unusual or unique. In most large cities and states when job data is aggregated the government winds up being the largest or one of the largest job providers. Whether or not the government is oversized and reasons for budget shortfalls is a separate issue from backdoor gun control.

Quote:
“If we were to pursue a tax on something like guns and ammo, clearly that wouldn’t be popular with the [gun lobby] out there, and it may not generate $50 million, but ... it is consistent with our commitment to pursuing violence reduction in the city and in the county,” Kurt Summers, Preckwinkle’s chief of staff, said on Monday.
Even the people involved are acknowledging its not about the revenue but gun control, or violence reduction as they would put it. The monetary figures are just thrown out there as distraction and baseless justification.
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Old October 10, 2012, 08:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
a prostitution tax for condoms,
a burglary tax on lock pick sets and crow bars,
a speeding tax for all sports cars,
an addiction tax for all narcotic prescriptions,
I could go on, but you see my point.

What kind of reasoning leads to taxing of a legal product because of its potential illegal use? I'm baffled by their actions.Is this the same reasoning behind limiting the size of a sugared drink containers?

Maybe we need a cholesterol tax on donuts too.
How about a corruption tax on political campaigns?
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Old October 10, 2012, 09:37 PM   #10
Strafer Gott
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They need to collect the tax at the scene of the crime/arrest whichever comes first for it to make any sense whatsoever.
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Old October 10, 2012, 11:25 PM   #11
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I'd only support such a thing if it's accompanied by a stupidity tax for the politicians who think up such asinine proposals.
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Old October 10, 2012, 11:26 PM   #12
RamItOne
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Dang he already wants to adopt Europes VAT

I guess this could be a Violence Added Tax lol



Think it was Clinton that added the "sin tax" on smokes, non smokers didn't care, it passed.

Will most non gun owners oppose this? Probably not unless they see this as a start of a tricky slope of taxing.
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Old October 11, 2012, 07:00 AM   #13
Kreyzhorse
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Quote:
I fear we could see more of this as Poloticians look for ways to implement stealth gun control and to close their budget gaps. The average citizen might support the 2A, but may not really be concerned about increased taxes on guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.
You are wise to fear it. They can't outlaw firearms but they can make buying them, as well as buying ammo, out of the reach of many people by imposing high taxes on them.

Here is another example of a bullet tax.

http://www.theliberaloc.com/2012/07/...o-tax-bullets/
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Old October 11, 2012, 08:10 AM   #14
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http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...othy-schneider

Quote:
Cook County Board President Toni Preckwinkle's idea of taxing guns and bullets to help balance the budget drew fire Tuesday from critics who argued it would punish law-abiding firearm owners while failing to quell violence.

Quote:
Democratic Commissioner Jeffrey Tobolski of McCook also expressed skepticism about a bullet tax, saying he wants to see more cuts to the county's Health and Hospital System before the administration asks for new revenue. "If you pass the gun and ammo tax, you are not hurting the gangbangers on the street," he said.

Commissioner John Fritchey, D-Chicago, noted that he supported gun control initiatives as a state lawmaker, but added that he's "still not sure how taxing bullets is going to keep kids from being shot. If I can see a meaningful correlation between taxing the ammunition of law-abiding citizens and most of the people committing the violence in Chicago, then I'd be willing to consider this. But right now I haven't seen this."
As a near life long Illinois Resident, for a Cook County politician to be saying what I bolded above is pretty amazing. Maybe we ARE winning the 2A fight.
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Old October 11, 2012, 09:45 AM   #15
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If they want to raise revenue, then they should just start issuing carry permits for a reasonable fee for anyone that has a clean background. I'm sure the County and the City would raise a fair amount of money. But that would make too much sense...
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Old October 11, 2012, 12:51 PM   #16
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They already have a gasoline tax and tax and license taxes on cars, has it stopped drive by shootings?
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Old October 11, 2012, 05:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Another interesting fact: All this is going to do is really hurt business for the few suburban gun stores left. You can drive an extra 15-30 mins and end up at a number of gun shops and ranges outside of Cook County;

I wuz gonna do that. I just kept going and by the time I got to Phoenix. . .well, I stopped.

Great shooting out here.
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Old October 11, 2012, 06:52 PM   #18
KyJim
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Such a tax might face a constitutional challenge. Governments cannot aim a tax specifically on newspapers, though newspapers are subject to general taxes. It's not clear to me how a bullet tax or something similar would fare since it is more indirect in nature. Still, does Chicago want more litigation on this matter?
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Old October 11, 2012, 10:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
I wuz gonna do that. I just kept going and by the time I got to Phoenix. . .well, I stopped.
Great shooting out here.
I hear ya; If I can swing it I might be moving up just over the border in WI. We will see; its getting way too developed up there though not like when I was a kid. Unless you go out into the Styx Southern WI along I94 is more or less like the far Northern or Western suburbs.


Quote:
Such a tax might face a constitutional challenge. Governments cannot aim a tax specifically on newspapers, though newspapers are subject to general taxes. It's not clear to me how a bullet tax or something similar would fare since it is more indirect in nature. Still, does Chicago want more litigation on this matter?
In Illinois they just passed an additional $1.00 a pack Cigarette tax; They just upped the tax on Soda a year or so ago; they also just signed a "pole tax" on strip clubs too.... constitutional or not they already have MANY taxes here that target specific products.
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Old October 12, 2012, 03:49 PM   #20
maestro pistolero
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Here's an idea: Propose an arson, drunk driving and vehicular homicide tax on all gasoline sold in Cook county. When they marry that to the violence tax on ammo, then agree.
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Old October 12, 2012, 05:14 PM   #21
mete
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Todays news in NYC -Bloomberg stuffs his face into the camera bragging about capturing 100 illegal guns and making some arrests. I wonder what will happen to them, more slaps on the wrists ?
One hundred guns ??? In some neighborhoods you could find that many in one block !!
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Old October 12, 2012, 09:50 PM   #22
Patriot86
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Quote:
Here's an idea: Propose an arson, drunk driving and vehicular homicide tax on all gasoline sold in Cook county. When they marry that to the violence tax on ammo, then agree.
Please don't give the politicians any ideas; they already banned spray paint in Chicago...real pain in the butt if you need some for construction purposes. Next maybe it will be gas cans...
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Old October 13, 2012, 05:21 AM   #23
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look if you going to have a "violence tax", then can't just limit it to just firearm related items, what about domestic violence and other such violent acts?, sounds like a BS tax, unless it's going to be called for what it is.
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Old October 14, 2012, 11:04 AM   #24
mete
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,5277041.story

The violence continues !! It's very easy for a city to deteriorate when the politicians come up with stupid plans to solve problems.
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Old October 14, 2012, 05:55 PM   #25
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Yet another brilliant plan put forth by the all knowing Chicago machine .... and how many criminals pay tax on their illegal gun purchases?

I know last time I bought an automatic ak 47 from Louie out of his van on lower Wacker I filled out my federal paperwork, showed him my FOID, and paid IL sales tax

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