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Old October 22, 2012, 03:29 PM   #1
RevolverOcelot
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Options for Long Range Sniper?

I want to get and set up a nice long range 30-06 bolt action. I've already decided 30-06 is the caliber I want as to have one caliber for my Garand, Springfield 03A3, 1917 Enfield, and whatever long range scoped bolt gun I get.


So what's some of the best long range bolt actions chambered in 30-06? I don't want to use a Springfield 1903 or something historical, I want something more modern than I can put a modern scope and stock on. Preferably heavy barreled, but I don't see much of that for 30-06.

Are the new Winchester Model 70's made in Japan? If not, are they any good?
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Old October 22, 2012, 04:59 PM   #2
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Just about anything will do

Honestly, the 1903 is probably pretty good already, but I would look for a pre-64 Model 70 target model in 30-06.

I would think a custom rifle might be the only way to get a modern 30-06 precision gun.
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Old October 22, 2012, 05:16 PM   #3
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New Winchester 70s are made in Utah, not Japan, not that's nothing wrong in things built in Japan, on the contrary; I'd buy Japan-made over anything else made any day of the week. Said that, new Winchester 70s are designed as pre-64 and they are excellent rifles.

I'm a big Winchester 70 and Mauser fan myself, I'd suggest you to get a custom barrel action or a whole custom rifle from the Montana Rifle Co, that's the route I went. They build high quality Winchester 70 clones, and you can get a heavy bull barrel of any length chambered in your .30-06.

Also understand that a sniper is somebody that kills humans at long distances.
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Old October 22, 2012, 05:20 PM   #4
Jim Watson
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The Savage 10/110 FCP HS Precision is cataloged in .308 and .300 Win Mag.
HOWEVER, Savage will make up uncataloged variants as long as they have the parts in the bins. They charge $100 or $150 extra for that.
Call them up.
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Old October 22, 2012, 05:23 PM   #5
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Surgeon action, Hart barrel...don't look back.
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Old October 22, 2012, 05:58 PM   #6
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Kimber offers a heavy barreled 30-06...the tag on the one I looked at said $1,200...which is at least $700 cheaper than a custom.

EDIT: Checked Kimbers website...it seems they no longer offer it...it was similar to the model they now call the "Sonora"...then it was called the "Longmaster" I think...and it was a 30-06.
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Old October 22, 2012, 05:59 PM   #7
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No action's shot match bullets at the longer ranges more accurate than the Winchester Model 70's have. A few have equalled them but only at 3 to 4 times the cost. The modern, high dollar, custom machined precision made single shot bolt actions winning the long range benchrest matches these days in synthetic stocks are no more accurate than what was done decades ago with rifles built around Model 70 Winchester actions put in solid wood stocks. The best of any of them today shoot inside the 6 to 7 inch range at 1000 yards which is what's happened over the last 40 years using Winchester actions.

That aside, there are actions today that are easier to build super accruate rifles with, but they cost a very pretty penny.
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Old October 22, 2012, 08:35 PM   #8
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Budget?

Savage action and Varmint or Bull match from Krieger, Shilen, or others...
Aftermarket stock of your choice and budget, and you can DIY... 1/2 minute easily achievable.

If you want to get a smith involved (if the cost and wait aren't a factor) then a trued 700 action with barrels from the same guys as above...

In the end, while the '06 is a capable long range caliber, just not as "popular" these days in heavy barrel configurations for long range, so best bet might be to build what you want. Short actions are where the demand is...
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Old October 22, 2012, 08:45 PM   #9
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Since you will be hand loading or buying expensive match ammo for this rifle (the milsurp '03 and Garand .30-06 ammo would be a waste in this new rifle) you might want to consider a calibre like .308 Win, since many of these types of rifles are already chambered for it.
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Old October 22, 2012, 09:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Since you will be hand loading or buying expensive match ammo for this rifle (the milsurp '03 and Garand .30-06 ammo would be a waste in this new rifle) you might want to consider a calibre like .308 Win, since many of these types of rifles are already chambered for it.
This. The 1903 doesn't care, but M1s need a specific pressure curve range, or damage can result.

You can get one in .30-06, but it will be a custom proposition. You can get an off the shelf LR rig in .308 from a number of different places that will most likely suit your needs for 1/2 to 1/3 of the price.

That savings buys better glass, or a lot of practice ammo.
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Old October 22, 2012, 09:27 PM   #11
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;)

Look around for a Savage 110FP in 3006. You may find one on an auction site or a wholesaler that still has them in stock. My 110 is a long action .308 but looking back I bought it for the same reason your are at that time. Now I want a 110 or long action Stevens receiver in 6.5X55 but I would have been just as happy with a 3006 when I got my .308 110FP. I did see one 110 3006 FP at auction for a buy it of $699 last spring. Oh the term sniper isn't really what we are talking about here, has a poor image.


Good shopping to ya.
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Old October 23, 2012, 12:15 PM   #12
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I know of no current 30-06 target variants. Although you can keep checking the auction sights for a Savage 110 FP in 30-06, they do show up from time to time.

Just as easy to get any long action Savage, a barrel nut wrench, go/nogo gauges, and an aftermarket barrel.

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Old October 23, 2012, 01:00 PM   #13
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Long range rifle - and apologies for the long post

Here is an article I found last year on a budget tack driver: (with thanks to the original author) Hope it's helpful!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin article <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Long Range Hunting Rifle On A Budget
By Jerry Teo

So, you are interested in building a long range hunting rifle but are intimidated by the cost of some of the custom rigs that are built by members of this board. I would like to share with you my experiences over the last 10 years in building economical hunting rifles that shoot very well out to a mile.

First off, let's define a few parameters in what is a long range hunting rifle so that we know when we get there. A long range hunting rifle is not just the part that makes noise and launches lead. It is a package of optics, rifle, ammo and rests that allow a hunter to engage game accurately at very long distances.

In its essence, long range hunting is about spotting your quarry at extended distances, determining its range to within a few yards, adjusting a scope to compensate for distance and ambient conditions, seeing clearly enough to aim precisely. It is also about a hunting rifle accurate enough to hit that game first shot from a cold barrel, a bullet designed to create a fatal wound at distance, and a shooter capable of making it happen under field conditions. Because of all the items needed to achieve this, long range hunting is not a cheap sport but let's see how we can make it more affordable.
Publisher's Note:
For a different approach to a long range hunting rifle, see this site for a fully custom, ready-to-ship long range hunting rifle:
Long Range Rifles, LLC
Optics: Let's just cover the basics as this topic can cover volumes of info and choices. You will need a pair of binoculars for general glassing. A spotting scope is useful once you have located the game, especially if determining horn structure is important. In my area, certain animals must wear so many points to be legal so being able to count these at long range is critical.

For this, the most economical glass I have found that works are made by Nikon. I personally use the Monarch ATB 8X42 roof prism binos for walkabout glassing, the Action Extreme ATB 12X60 for long range glassing (make sure it is the extreme line as there are some much lower grades with the Action brand that don't really have the optics to work), and the XL 15-45 spotting scope. All are blessed with excellent glass and resolution rivaling that of very expensive products. You will see that these are some of the least expensive quality products you can find. They are also light, weather proof, making them ideal for packing into the hills. In general, Japanese brands offer great glass for reasonable dollars. Best thing you can do is try as many as you can get your hands on and see what works best for you.

Once you spot the game, you need to know how far away it is. Nothing faster or easier then a quality laser range finder. Here, money should not be saved. Leica and Swarovski make the best. The Bushnell Elite is a well priced product that many are happy with too.

Next up is your scope. This is the most critical part of your long range rifle. If this doesn't function, you are out of luck. I have had wonderful success with the Bushnell/Bausch&Lomb Elite 4000/4200 series of scopes. Their optics are superb with tremendous resolution, clarity and color trueness. They also have the newest coatings making low light visibility as good as scopes costing many times more. The most important part is their turrets. In all of the higher magnification models, they come with low profile true target turrets. Low profile means the knobs will not be catching on everything or get bumped easily (they also have covers). A true vernier turret, they allow you to dial up your needed elevation and windage.

I don't consider Kentucky windage viable for ethical long range hunting. There are multi-lined reticles that can also work but should have spacing no more than 1 MOA. My scopes have mildot reticles, not for ranging but for windage hold off. I always dial up my elevation and use the reticle should I miss the wind call. The Bushnell Elites are also one of the few brands that I can afford that have repeatable and reliable adjustments. I have owned over 12 scopes in various models and have not had a turret issue yet. For what they cost, this is simply a best buy. Again, Nikon makes some excellent products for very reasonable costs.

When testing scope adjustment, you have to be completely honest and brutal. Any scope that sticks or needs some polka two-step to get adjusted will fail when that buck of a lifetime trots out. The scope must dial up, first time, every time. Many scopes, even some mega dollar scopes can't do this.

What level of accuracy do we need to be qualified as a long range rifle? I feel that consistent, dependable 1/2 MOA mechanical rifle accuracy is an excellent level of performance. Less is, of course, great but there are other considerations besides pure accuracy like functioning and feeding.

That cold barrel first shot POI must also be dead on repeatable. Test to make sure under the conditions you will hunt.

The Factory Rifle Option: The most economical way is to tune up a modern factory rifle. Options from Savage, Tikka and Remington can and should do everything we need at reasonable prices. Every rifle should be properly bedded (even alum bedding chassis stocks should be bedded), barrel free floated, and trigger tuned as light as you can safely handle. Learning to use a lighter trigger pull will also aid in increasing pin point accuracy. I don't mean 2 oz triggers but around 1.5 lbs. My triggers are at 1 lb or less. With a bit of luck and a lot of load tuning, a modern factory rifle can delivery 1/2 MOA performance way out there. Unfortunately, there is that luck factor. If your factory barrel will not shoot, then your costs skyrocket trying to remedy that.

The Economical Custom long range 1000yds and Under Hunting rifle: How to Build a Tack Driver for under $1000. To ensure that I would be getting everything I wanted the first go round, I have focused on an action that will give you the performance with very low costs. In fact, the total of this semi custom build can be less then some factory rifles once you account for the tweaking costs.

For me, the most 'usable' and economical commercial action is the Savage/Stevens (sporterized surplus actions actually cost more in the long run). I have built all of my recent long range and competition rifles from these actions. They provide a superb lock-up to handle those toasty loads, a strong action, a fixed or detachable magazine that will feed improved shoulder wildcats, an awesome factory trigger (Accutrigger) or many after-market options (SSS, Rifle-Basix, Timney), ability to do home smithing if desired all for dirt cheap pricing.

All of my rifles were built using out of the box actions. No blueprinting was done nor required (savings of at least $200 compared to a Remington). With that floating bolt head, many woes that plague every other solid bolt action are eliminated. The first way to a dirt cheap semi-custom is to get a Savage w/Accutrigger in the action length and bolt face you want (HB 110FV come in 7RM and 300WM and make great rifles). If the factory barrel doesn't shoot as desired, sell it and spin on a quality pre-threaded/pre-chambered barrel in a cartridge of your choice.

Barrels from Pac Nor, Shilen, or Lothar Walther will give you the performance you want and are very well priced. Most are around $200 to $350, which is a steal considering you don't have the install costs. If desired, most any gunsmith will headspace that barrel for you for a few bucks. You can also buy a barrel blank and have it installed. It will end up costing a few dollars more, but you have the option of wildcats and headspacing off the barrel shoulder.

You can get lucky with barrels from MidwayUSA and ER Shaw but if going this route, I would just stick with the factory barrel. Most factory Savage barrels shoot very well...for factory barrels. Contour, length, fluting and other dimensions I will leave to your tastes and style of use. I personally do not want a very heavy bulky rifle as mobility is important. No more then a 26" #5 or fluted #7. I want an overall weight of around 10lbs. You don't need a heavy barrel to be accurate. If building a true bench rifle, then much higher weights/sizes can be used. Finish on that barrel can be as simple as a bit of spray paint or a few bucks if going with the new baked on finishes or bluing. In my hunting rifles, I am more concerned about performance then looks.

For stocks, again, there are now so many choices. Personally, I use the factory plastic stocks. They work surprisingly well once bedded, forend opened WAY up, and reinforced. A bit of elbow grease and a can of spray paint, they look like many composite stocks today. I would certainly replace the recoil pad for a Limbsaver or Hogue. The most economical after-market stocks are the Boyds laminates, Bell and Carlson composites, then the Brownells/Stockade composites. You can easily replace that plastic stock for $100. If interested, Ebay can also provide lots of options.

The Biggest Bang for the Buck Build Up: Another route is to use the Stevens 200 rifle as the donor getting rid of most of the factory parts and using the action which is identical to the Savage. This is the route I have taken because I want very light trigger pulls that only the after-market triggers from Sharp Shooters and Rifle-Basix can provide.

A stripped Stevens is around $150. The Sharp Shooters Supply trigger (under 1 lb pull) unit is $85. A ready-to-install Pac-Nor match chrome-moly barrel in the white is $280. Weaver scope bases are $15. Burris rings w/ inserts are $35. Recoil pad is $25. Boyds laminated stock is $85 if you don't mind a bit of finishing, $150 if factory finished. Bedding is only the cost of materials if you do that yourself - $10. Total: Under $700 if you do the work yourself. $725 if you want an after-market bolt handle. Even less if you modify the factory stock - around $600 to 675!!!

My rifles built this way are shooting in the 2's out to 300 meters. That is near match rifle performance in a rig that can handle the rigors of hunting and costless then many factory rifles.

The Muzzle Brake: One item I feel should be on a long range rifle is a muzzle brake. This rifle is not intended for snap shooting but rather planned static shooting from a 'hide'. So I will have time to put on ear plugs. A muzzle brake not only reduces recoil but more importantly, allows me to spot my own shots. It is always advisable to have a spotter with you because two sets of eyes are better then one!

Given the distances, you need to know that the bullet arrived as desired or it missed. Odds are the animal will move after the shot and if you don't know what that bullet did, you are likely having a miserable time tracking or loosing game - not good! Also, shot recovery is much faster so follow up shots, if needed, can be sent on their way promptly.

The most economical brake I use is by Miculek and is his AR-15 style. The bore is opened up to match my caliber and spun onto the barrel. These brakes work very well and cost around $45 at Brownells. Installation cost is around $25 to 50.

With handloads, you will have a rifle that can hold the boiler room of most large game as far as the effectiveness of your cartridge. All for under $1,000. That's economical.

How accurate does the long range hunter have to be? Here are some personal thoughts on the subject. Many focus on the performance of their equipment but how many focus on the practice needed to shoot well under field conditions? My personal requirement is being able to engage a gallon milk jug first shot EVERYTIME as far as I want to hunt under the conditions presented. A smaller target would be chosen if hunting game smaller then a deer. In dead calm first light air, that might be 1,000yds. In a snow storm, it might be 100yds.

I can honestly say that the many experienced long range hunters on this board have that ability or else they pass up the shot or get closer. This is not target shooting where a miss is simply lost points. A long range hunter must have the same certainty of delivering a fatal shot at extended distances as a hunter jumping a deer at 75 yards.
________________________________________
Jerry shoots regularly out to one mile and also competes in F class. His current cartridges are 223, 6.5 Mystic, 7 Mystic, 308, 300RUM and 338 Mystic. He enjoys experimenting with gear and widcatting in order to increase accuracy performance and to debunk accuracy myths.

Join the discussion of this article with the author at the Article Discussion Forum
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Old October 23, 2012, 01:15 PM   #14
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Re 30-06 and accuracy

Personally, I bought a Savage 116 FCSS Weather Warrior. I wanted durability and a common ammo, well-tried, that will be on any shelf at any gas station in Bumjab, Montana (with apologies to the residents of Bumjab)

(EDIT) As well, the 30-06 can be loaded up or down to a very broad range of applications. While that isn't a compelling matter insofar as LD shooting is concerned, it fits my needs for a versatile load.
(END EDIT)

While I'm sure there was some luck involved, I shot a 0.400" group with Federal HighShock 150 gr, 100yds. I hope my attachment is there.

So, with some hesitancy due to limited experience on my part, I believe you will find the Stevens and Savage actions a good, cheap foundation. Check the background of the article I posted.
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Last edited by smokiniron; October 23, 2012 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Added comment...
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Old October 23, 2012, 01:21 PM   #15
Don H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknitro71
New Winchester 70s are made in Utah, not Japan
No, they are not being made in Utah, they are being made at the FN facility in Columbia, South Carolina. Browning, based in Morgan, Utah, is merely the Fabrique National entity that obtained a license from Olin Corporation to manufacture Winchester firearms.
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Old October 23, 2012, 01:44 PM   #16
Bart B.
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Quote:
With a bit of luck and a lot of load tuning, a modern factory rifle can delivery 1/2 MOA performance way out there.
Name one. And how much luck does one need? Mention how far in yards "way out there" is, too.

I ask because none of the very best, record setting long range benchrest rifles shoot that well. While one out of one or two hundred groups may be holding a record with one rifle, the rest of that rifle's groups max out in the 7 to 8 inch range at 1000 yards. Those tiny-group records are seldom, if ever, repeated by the same rifle.
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Old October 23, 2012, 02:38 PM   #17
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Lot of the IBS/HBRSA with is group match have what's call factory class. I got my start shooting BR factory class in Calif and if anyone interest they can get on the Benchrest site and get location.

http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showth...est-1000-yards
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Old October 24, 2012, 07:20 PM   #18
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Here's an interesting remark:
Quote:
My personal requirement is being able to engage a gallon milk jug first shot EVERYTIME as far as I want to hunt under the conditions presented. A smaller target would be chosen if hunting game smaller then a deer. In dead calm first light air, that might be 1,000yds.
Considering the very best long range competitors shooting a known load in known conditions at 1000 yards on a range the've got good zeros for, the percentage of the time their first shot strikes the 10-inch inner ring of the target is about 10% to 20%. That's about what a gallon milk jug represents.
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Old October 24, 2012, 10:09 PM   #19
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If you want any chance of being able to make first shot hits at that range...you're gonna need a lot of gun...

338 Lapua or 338 EDGE loaded with big Berger bullets (300 grain, BC of .818)...with those, maybe...MAYBE....you could reliably hit within a foot of where you were aiming, IF you make at least a decent wind call.


No 30-06, 300 WM, 300 WSM, or even 300 Ultra is gonna be that easy in the wind...some of the big 7mm's are good, but even they don't compare to those big 338 bullets.

Theres a reason true long range hunters use those big 338's...because they make a 6-700 yard shot pretty easy...with a BC that high, the average wind doesn't really become a problem until after 800 yards.
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Old October 25, 2012, 08:34 AM   #20
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A friend and former USN SEAL Team commander told me a few months ago about recent tests comparing several cartridges and rifles in accuracy and shootability tests up through 1500 yards. Top level marksmen shot a couple of 30 caliber magnums as well as 33 caliber ones. Included, of course was the .338 Laupa Mag.

Best results for first shot hit as well as overall accuracy happened when the marksmen shot a .300 Win. Mag. While its accuracy was at least equal to (and sometimes better than) that of the .338 Lapua, its milder recoil while the bullet's going through the barrel made it easier to shoot accurately off ones shoulder.

That didn't impress the US Army folks as they insisted the .338 Lap Mag was the best one to use. Shootable accuracy was obviously not most important to them.

If you want any chance of being able to make first shot hits at any range... you're gonna need a gun and ammo you can do it with. Hits with most any bullet's better than a very near miss with a huge one. Virtually all of the top scores in long range matches these days with shoulder fired rifles from prone are made with smaller bore and milder cartridges than 30 caliber and bigger huge cases.

Last edited by Bart B.; October 25, 2012 at 08:41 AM.
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Old October 25, 2012, 09:51 AM   #21
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Here is one of the Army sniper rifle in 300mag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM2010_...d_Sniper_Rifle
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Old October 25, 2012, 01:06 PM   #22
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Bart B.

The 1500 meter limit isn't a good comparison of the 338 Lapua to a 300 Win Mag. Both are adequate out to a mile with milspec loads (220gr SMK in the 300 Win Mag, 2,850 fps). Right now USSOCOM is looking for a 2000 meter objective sniper solution. A 338 Lapua pushing a 300gr SMK at 2,800 fps stays supersonic 300 meters past the 300 Win Mag load, and has the same drop at 2k that the 300 Win Mag has at 1850 meters (roughly), and a half second faster time of flight out to 2k.

Note that neither the Lapua nor Win Mag will remain supersonic at a mile (at least not with the bullets or loads tested), but choosing bullets that handle the transonic shift allows use beyond that limit.

So the Army does care about "shootability" for the next gen sniper rifle. But the range capabilty is looking for 1500 meters are the "interim solution" with an objective (final capability) of 2000 meters.

Of course NSWC Crane put together the 220 SMK 300 Win Mag load to compete directly with the 250gr loads our allies are using, and it does so quite well.

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