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Old October 13, 2012, 04:49 PM   #1
balance
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S&W Model 659

I was just browsing through a gun store one day when...

I always wanted to try one of these out, but I never found a good deal on one in this condition locally, until yesterday. The pistol looked as if someone bought it, put a single box of ammo through it, and then left it in a drawer for next 20 years.





It is a S&W Model 659, a second generation S&W semi-auto. The pistol is close to being immaculate, having just a few small scratches here and there. I took it out yesterday and it shot 200 rounds through it without issue, and the pistol shot accurately in my hands.

The grip feels comfortable, though it is more "blocky" than some of my other pistols. There are grooves cut into the frontstrap and backstrap that seem to lock the pistol in my hands.

The trigger is excellent, and this could be considered an understatement. It has a trigger that would be at home on a target pistol, if not for the DA trigger pull being as heavy as it is. The DA is smooth, and the SA trigger break is what I would consider a glass rod break. The trigger reset is actually shorter than my Walther P99 or PPQ, and they have a very short reset.

S&W and Walther are the only companies that I know of that put stock adjustable sights on a modern defensive pistol. The adjustable sights on these have a metal ear on either side of the sight to protect them from impacts. It has the same sight picture as the S&W Model 15 revolver that I inherited, so I am somewhat used to them already, though I may need to put some paint on the front sight later on since a stainless steel front sight is not so easy to pick up and center on a black rear sight.



Apparently, S&W used a phillips head screw to hold the safety on, and they used removable barrel bushings on the second generation pistols, that are not there on the third generation pistols. I thought this was interesting.





Overall, I like it, a lot. I'll shoot it some more before I decide on what to do with it, but it shoots very, very well in my hands. I may consider carrying it sometime, though it weighs much more than my current polymer carry pistols, the DA pull is heavier than the one on my current polymer carry pistols, and the front sight is not so easy to pick up being silver.

I'm curious if anyone can put a date of manufacture on this pistol (Serial # TBD0026), or if there is any other information you think a new S&W 659 owner should know.

P.S. What is a good size for pictures to so that you don't have to scroll left and right to read the post?
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Old October 15, 2012, 01:26 AM   #2
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Beautiful. I was considering one of these myself. If I can ask, about how much did you end up paying for it?
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Old October 15, 2012, 02:01 AM   #3
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Bushing? My 745’s don’t have a bushing and the DA/SA 645 is bushingless as well. They both are second generation but the first of S&W’s 45ACP semi-auto pistols I believe.

Would appreciate a field strip view if possible.

Your image sizes are fine, no side scrolling when using my Sony PSP (Playstation portable) that I use to do the majority of my browsing.
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Old October 15, 2012, 02:30 AM   #4
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That is just awesome. Very jealous.
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Old October 15, 2012, 12:40 PM   #5
balance
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Quote:
Beautiful. I was considering one of these myself. If I can ask, about how much did you end up paying for it?
$375

Locally where I'm at, for one in this condition, that is a pretty good price.

Quote:
Bushing? My 745’s don’t have a bushing and the DA/SA 645 is bushingless as well. They both are second generation but the first of S&W’s 45ACP semi-auto pistols I believe.

Would appreciate a field strip view if possible.

Your image sizes are fine, no side scrolling when using my Sony PSP (Playstation portable) that I use to do the majority of my browsing.
As for the bushing, I don't know much about S&W's non-polymer semi-automatics as this is my first one, it may just be a 9mm thing, but I'll try to get some pictures of the internals up within the next few days.

I've been reading up as much as I can on these pistols since I bought it.

Quote:
That is just awesome. Very jealous.
Thanks.

I like it a lot, and it definitely isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Old October 15, 2012, 12:58 PM   #6
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A few comments...

Nice acquisition! Thoughts and comments in no particular order...
Quote:
The trigger is excellent... if not for the DA trigger pull being as heavy as it is.
Unless you desire to keep the pistol factory-stock for carry purposes- and let's not open that can of worms here!- I heartily endorse installing an 18# Wolff mainspring if you want to lower the DA pull weight.

1st- and 2nd-gen S&W TDA pistols were shipped with 20# or 22# mainsprings, but many TDA enthusiasts- including this one- believe that this was done mainly because of a perception that a heavy DA pull was a desirable safety feature, and NOT because it's strictly necessary for reliable ignition. As evidence, S&W switched to an 18# spring during the 3rd-gen model run.

If you want a MUCH lighter DA pull, you can even go to a 16# or lighter spring, but this reportedly may start causing light strikes with some ammo.

The mainspring is removed by decocking the pistol, driving out the pin at the base of the grips, pulling the mainspring housing down and away from the grip frame, and then sliding the spring off the hammer stirrup.
Quote:
The trigger reset is actually shorter than my Walther P99 or PPQ, and they have a very short reset.
IMHO the S&W TDA trigger reset is the standard against which all other DA/SA pistols are measured.
Quote:
It has the same sight picture as the S&W Model 15 revolver that I inherited, so I am somewhat used to them already...
AFAIK the adjustable sight pistols actually use the same type of sight blade as a later-model S&W K/L frame revolver.
Quote:
...though I may need to put some paint on the front sight later on since a stainless steel front sight is not so easy to pick up and center on a black rear sight.
One disadvantage of the 2nd-gen (and 1st-gen) TDAs is the integral front sight, particularly on the stainless pistols. Also, as you may have already assumed, a gunsmith's attention will be needed to install night sights because a hole must be drilled horizontally into the front sight.
Quote:
S&W used a phillips head screw to hold the safety on...
I believe that a 3rd-gen style "screwless" safety can be swapped over. The later-style RH-side safety lever slides into a slot in the safety "barrel" and is held in place by a little spring and plunger. The later-style safety was actually used on a few late-production 2nd-gen pistols.

OTOH whether S&W will sell you the parts is another story; they are reportedly hoarding some harder-to-find TDA parts to keep their remaining LE customers happy.

Also, this is a good time to mention- if you didn't already know this- that the 2nd-gen pistols have a trigger-actuated firing pin block and are considered totally drop-safe while carried in DA/safety-off mode. The 1st-gen pistols lack the firing pin block, and for this reason, the S&W manual recommends always carrying the earlier pistols with the safety engaged.
Quote:
I'm curious if anyone can put a date of manufacture on this pistol (Serial # TBD00xx)...
IIRC about 1986-1987.
Quote:
My 745’s don’t have a bushing and the DA/SA 645 is bushingless as well. They both are second generation but the first of S&W’s 45ACP semi-auto pistols I believe... Would appreciate a field strip view if possible.
The x45-series were indeed the first .45ACP TDA pistols, and I believe these were also the first S&W bushing-less pistols. However, AFAIK all of the 9mm models used bushings until the advent of the 3rd-gens.

The bushing of the similar M459 can be seen in the Google Books preview of several Gun Digest disassembly books.

http://books.google.com/books?id=YAj...sembly&f=false
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Last edited by carguychris; October 15, 2012 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Minor reword...
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Old October 15, 2012, 02:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Unless you desire to keep the pistol factory-stock for carry purposes- and let's not open that can of worms here!- I heartily endorse installing an 18# Wolff mainspring if you want to lower the DA pull weight.

1st- and 2nd-gen S&W TDA pistols were shipped with 20# or 22# mainsprings, but many TDA enthusiasts- including this one- believe that this was done mainly because of a perception that a heavy DA pull was a desirable safety feature, and NOT because it's strictly necessary for reliable ignition. As evidence, S&W switched to an 18# spring during the 3rd-gen model run.

If you want a MUCH lighter DA pull, you can even go to a 16# or lighter spring, but this reportedly may start causing light strikes with some ammo.

The mainspring is removed by decocking the pistol, driving out the pin at the base of the grips, pulling the mainspring housing down and away from the grip frame, and then sliding the spring off the hammer stirrup.
Thank you. An 18lb mainspring will be ordered ASAP.

Quote:
IMHO the S&W TDA trigger reset is the standard against which all other DA/SA pistols are measured.
Even though I've been a Walther P99 fan for years, I have to agree with you. The trigger resets at the break point, and the reset on this pistol is very, very short. In my opinion, and in my case, this is conducive to fast and accurate shooting.

Quote:
AFAIK the adjustable sight pistols actually use the same type of sight blade as a later-model S&W K/L frame revolver.
Looking at both my Model 15 and Model 659, I believe this is correct.

Quote:
One disadvantage of the 2nd-gen (and 1st-gen) TDAs is the integral front sight, particularly on the stainless pistols. Also, as you may have already assumed, a gunsmith's attention will be needed to install night sights because a hole must be drilled horizontally into the front sight.
I was wondering if something like this could be done to the 659, where the front sight is dovetailed to accept others:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/s-w_4006.htm

But to be honest, I'm a little hesitant to cut this one up, and I may just leave it as is.

Quote:
I believe that a 3rd-gen style "screwless" safety can be swapped over. The later-style RH-side safety lever slides into a slot in the safety "barrel" and is held in place by a little spring and plunger. The later-style safety was actually used on a few late-production 2nd-gen pistols.

OTOH whether S&W will sell you the parts is another story; they are reportedly hoarding some harder-to-find TDA parts to keep their remaining LE customers happy.

Also, this is a good time to mention- if you didn't already know this- that the 2nd-gen pistols have a trigger-actuated firing pin block and are considered totally drop-safe while carried in DA/safety-off mode. The 1st-gen pistols lack the firing pin block, and for this reason, the S&W manual recommends always carrying the earlier pistols with the safety engaged.
I was wondering if deactivating the mag safety would positively effect the trigger, or negatively effect function of the pistol. I'm not a fan of this type of safety, but I can live with a pistol that has one.

Quote:
IIRC about 1986-1987.
Thank you carguychris. Your entire post was both interesting and informative. I don't know much about these pistols as of right now, so any information is more than likely new to me.

Last edited by balance; October 15, 2012 at 06:20 PM.
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Old October 15, 2012, 03:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
I was wondering if something like this could be done to the 659, where the front sight is dovetailed to accept others:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/s-w_4006.htm
Theoretically yes, but it might be more trouble than it's worth.

The gun in the picture is a Model 4006, which, like other standard-production 3rd-gen TDA pistols, has a dovetailed interchangeable front sight. However, if you look close, you'll notice that the dovetail is actually elevated above the slide on this gun. This was done on 3rd-gen adjustable-sight pistols to compensate for the taller height of the adjustable sight compared to the standard fixed rear sight.

You could probably get the slide dovetailed to accept an extra-tall front sight from another pistol, but you may have to play around with different heights to adjust the pistol's POI where you want it.
Quote:
I was wondering if deactivating the mag safety would positively effect the trigger, or negatively effect function of the pistol.
Unlike the mag disconnect of a BHP, AFAIK the mag disconnect on a S&W TDA has no direct effect on the trigger pull. It works by pushing the trigger drawbar downwards, thereby disconnecting it from the sear.

The mag disconnect can be removed by drifting out the rear sight assembly and removing the disconnect plunger and spring. More here:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...d-gen-gun.html

If you field-strip the pistol and inspect the bottom of the slide, you'll see two plungers about an inch aft of the breech face. The metal one is the firing pin block (see my prior post). The plastic one is the mag disconnect.

That said, I wouldn't bother with it, but mag disconnects don't really bother me.
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Old October 15, 2012, 05:10 PM   #9
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I noticed the back view of the pictured 659 of the slide/receiver mating surfaces differs from my 745’s. Appears to be more intricate and may help in keeping dirt out. A method that isn’t used much if any today.

While most would say the all steel hammered designs using a locking lug at the top of barrel, unlike Sig’s innovation of using the ejection port, are out dated today, many of the older designs have their virtues. IMO these S&W pistols were designed and built at a time when electronics (my background largely) and things mechanical were conservatively designed.

Polymer has the advantage of low initial cost, lightweight, durable finish and in Glock’s high resistance to rust. Feed a striker-fired pistol distorted brass and it stands a fair chance of a jam or remotely an out of battery explosion/kaboom. A hammered design, my own experience, will hit the slide first and still have enough energy to safely fire the round and cycle properly. In the distant past I was using grease in the firing pin channel with no issues. Common knowledge of a striker and its channel, it must be kept clean with little oil if any. Before the popularity of striker fired pistols I believe the issue of soft or hard primers didn’t exist except when it came to magnums.

A hammered design functions best when the frame is full size and all steel. A good deal of mass is needed to keep the frame steady during the early recoil impulse of the slide. Polymer framed hammered design pistols do exist and many are happy and many say the pistol needs a break-in period or lock the slide back for a period of time. The solution is either a firmer grip or hotter ammo.

Yes the 745 is big, longer and taller than a full size 1911. I can shoot several hundred rounds in a single session with my hand/arm shaking noticeably and the pistol refuses to jam.

The safety is unusual on the 745 in that it has zero interaction with the trigger, the hammer can be dropped in any state of the safety. Firing pin is blocked/locked only when the safety is on.
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Old October 15, 2012, 06:28 PM   #10
balance
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I was wondering if something like this could be done to the 659, where the front sight is dovetailed to accept others:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/s-w_4006.htm
Theoretically yes, but it might be more trouble than it's worth.

The gun in the picture is a Model 4006, which, like other standard-production 3rd-gen TDA pistols, has a dovetailed interchangeable front sight. However, if you look close, you'll notice that the dovetail is actually elevated above the slide on this gun. This was done on 3rd-gen adjustable-sight pistols to compensate for the taller height of the adjustable sight compared to the standard fixed rear sight.

You could probably get the slide dovetailed to accept an extra-tall front sight from another pistol, but you may have to play around with different heights to adjust the pistol's POI where you want it.
Quote:
Quote:
I was wondering if deactivating the mag safety would positively effect the trigger, or negatively effect function of the pistol.
Unlike the mag disconnect of a BHP, AFAIK the mag disconnect on a S&W TDA has no direct effect on the trigger pull. It works by pushing the trigger drawbar downwards, thereby disconnecting it from the sear.

The mag disconnect can be removed by drifting out the rear sight assembly and removing the disconnect plunger and spring. More here:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...d-gen-gun.html

If you field-strip the pistol and inspect the bottom of the slide, you'll see two plungers about an inch aft of the breech face. The metal one is the firing pin block (see my prior post). The plastic one is the mag disconnect.

That said, I wouldn't bother with it, but mag disconnects don't really bother me.
Interesting.

I think it's better for me to just shoot it as-is for now.
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Old October 16, 2012, 10:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
The safety is unusual on the 745 in that it has zero interaction with the trigger, the hammer can be dropped in any state of the safety. Firing pin is blocked/locked only when the safety is on.
Will the hammer of a M745 drop against the engaged safety? If so, I was unaware of this. AFAIK the only somewhat commonplace pistols that will do this are the Walther PK380 and P22 and the Mauser HSc, but perhaps the M745 needs to be added to the list.

FWIW I'm not a fan of this system for HD/SD/LE pistols because of the uncertainty that may occur when the hammer falls but the pistol doesn't go BANG! If the safety is engaged, I prefer a trigger that locks up solid (e.g. M1911) or flops around uselessly (conventional S&W TDA) so the shooter instantly knows the nature of the problem.

Also, I believe that the M745 has a trigger-actuated firing pin block like all other 2nd-gen TDAs, but I could be mistaken.
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Last edited by carguychris; October 16, 2012 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Forgot the P22!
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:16 PM   #12
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Loving this thread, but I'm unfamiliar with your use of the abbreviation "TDA."
Is this a term they've coined in S&W circles, or one you use? What's it stand for specifically?
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Old October 16, 2012, 01:50 PM   #13
carguychris
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TDA...

...is an acronym formerly used in factory sales literature. It stands for Traditional Double Action.

I believe the factory used the acronym to refer specifically to exposed-hammer DA/SA pistols with slide-mounted decocker/safety levers, as opposed to the SAO, DAO, and frame-decocker variants. However, many S&W fans tend to refer to all of these pistols collectively as TDAs because it's less cumbersome than "metal-frame centerfire semi-autos".
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Last edited by carguychris; October 16, 2012 at 01:51 PM. Reason: Minor reword...
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Old October 16, 2012, 02:22 PM   #14
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Got it!
Somewhat unrelated and/or drifting, but I don't know know where else to post this thought.

I was reading through some of my old gun magazines and was flipping through a Shooting Times issue from either late 2002 or early 2003.

It seems hard to believe given where semi-auto duty/carry/defense guns are today in the year 2012, given the cult-like attraction to 1911 and polymer/tupperware guns, but in that little snapshot of Smith & Wesson history:

--They had not yet released any M&P pistols
--They had just started production & marketing of their first 1911
--They were still building and marketing 3rd Gens (not just quietly available for big contracts)
--In polymer, Glock was King, Sigma was BAD and XD had just been released and Smith & Wesson's latest advertising fodder was the .45 cal chambered P99, joint venture with Walther.

(Further unrelated, S&W was showing a .17 HMR chambered DA revolver...did that EVER get built and sold?)

I know it wasn't THAT long ago, but the M&P is a headliner these days and the 3rd Gens (and TDA's) are all old news and old tech.

In my memory... the M&P came, the 1911 was intro'd and the "other" metal semi-auto pistols were retired, but that wasn't exactly how it all played out.

The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Generation pistols will always have a place in my heart. I love them, I probably always will. I EDC a Glock and have no desire for another, but I'm actively looking for a full-size 3rd Gen in 9mm, just to add for the enjoyment of owning, shooting, and mowing down steel plates.
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Old October 16, 2012, 09:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
In my memory... the M&P came, the 1911 was intro'd and the "other" metal semi-auto pistols were retired, but that wasn't exactly how it all played out.
Actually, I think that IS how it played out.

IIRC the standard-production metal-frame pistols disappeared from the consumer catalog in 2009 and then from the LE catalog in 2010. According to popular rumors online- which I admittedly haven't seen confirmed- the pistol tooling was moved out of the Springfield plant but was mothballed at the Houlton, ME plant in case S&W receives a future LE order that's large enough to warrant dusting it off. (The PC-only Model 952 is still offered from time to time, but this gun is supposedly hand-built on different machinery.) I guess we just have to hope they get a big LE order and build a few extra guns!

I have some old magazines too, and it IS interesting to see the ads for the 3rd-gen pistol. IIRC one of my late 80s ads carries a slogan saying something like "S&W: The PROVEN Choice" and goes on to list several large LE agencies that had them- an oblique but fairly obvious dig at Glock!

Unfortunately, I think it basically boils down to profits. The TDAs are complex pistols that incorporate a good deal of intricate machining. They were always somewhat expensive guns, even the stripped-down "Value Series" models, and I don't think that S&W could afford to sell them for close to M&P or Glock prices unless they pared their margins down to the bone.
Quote:
(Further unrelated, S&W was showing a .17 HMR chambered DA revolver...did that EVER get built and sold?)
Minor sidetrack! The revolver is the Model 647. IIRC it was a regular-production item for only one year before being dropped, but it has been brought back a couple of times as a PC gun. It's actually currently available as the ".17 HMR Varminter", SKU #170229, MSRP of $1,299.
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Old October 17, 2012, 02:12 AM   #16
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Best of luck with your used 659.

Is that philips head screw on the safety a factory part?
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Old October 17, 2012, 08:46 AM   #17
carguychris
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Quote:
Is that philips head screw on the safety a factory part?
Yes, all 2nd-gen S&W TDAs have it except for (a) a few guns built without the optional RH-side ambidextrous safety lever before it became a standard feature, and (b) a few late-production guns built with the slot-and-plunger RH-side lever used on the 3rd-gens. (See my earlier post.)

If you're not a big TDA fan, you can be forgiven for not knowing about the screw because 2nd-gen owners post suspiciously few pictures of the RH sides of these pistols online.
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Old October 17, 2012, 11:33 AM   #18
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That, sir, is a great get. Well done, snapping that up!
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Old October 17, 2012, 04:48 PM   #19
balance
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I bought another one.

This time it is a Model 5904.





After shooting my 659, I felt like I may have wanted to carry it in the future, but I would have preferred something a little lighter. I stopped by another gun store today and found this one laying in a corner next to a Llama and a Bryco.

I traded a pistol I didn't have much interest in for it, and if it performs as well as my 659, I'll feel like I came out ahead. I haven't shot this pistol yet.

I have a few questions about this one as well.

Does anyone know when this one was made (Serial # TEF6637)? I assume it is an early 3rd generation model, since it has a squared trigger guard.

Does anyone know the significance of this number on the dustcover? I assume it is an old duty gun.



Another reason I believe it was an issued pistol, is because it came with adjustable (dead) night sights.





Does anyone know if replacements are available, or if there is a way to have an outfit install some new tritium vials?

This was another impulse buy, but I'd be much more likely to carry this one than the 659. It is lighter, and has a smoother and lighter DA trigger. I also wouldn't feel as bad about scuffing this one up. I'll report how I feel about this one once I take it out shooting.
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Old October 17, 2012, 05:47 PM   #20
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Al Pachino in Serpico (Spelling?) movie is buying a S&W 59 after finding out his own cops (NYC) are trying to kill him. Pawn shop guys asks, "You fighting an army" referring to the hi cap mag. Al says no "Just a division"..always stuck with me for some reason and I bought and carried a 59 on duty for awhile. Just too big and blocky for me, small hands. Fine gun though and the 659 is even better. Sold it to a firefighter friend of mine who had been shot at on an aid call.
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Old October 17, 2012, 09:54 PM   #21
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I think the movie Serpico was packing a Hi Cap Taurus, Right?.

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Old October 17, 2012, 10:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Sulaco2

Al Pachino in Serpico (Spelling?) movie is buying a S&W 59 after finding out his own cops (NYC) are trying to kill him. Pawn shop guys asks, "You fighting an army" referring to the hi cap mag. Al says no "Just a division"..always stuck with me for some reason and I bought and carried a 59 on duty for awhile
Nope, just watched it last week.

Quote:
Browning Hi-Power

Towards the end of the film, Serpico (Al Pacino) purchases for himself a Browning Hi-Power with target sights from the famous John Jovino gun shop in New York City. The salesman incorrectly tells him it "takes a 14-shot clip". Although a Hi-Power can have a maximum capacity of fourteen 9 mm rounds, the magazine (not clip!) itself can only carry thirteen. Serpico tries in vain to draw his Hi-Power during the fake drug buy, but is unable to get a shot off. http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Serpico#Browning_Hi-Power
Nice 5904 Balance, my wife and I have matching his/her 469's, I've been looking for a 5904 for a while, most of them look like they were dragged behind a truck.
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Old October 17, 2012, 11:57 PM   #23
745SW
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Join Date: August 25, 2011
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Posts: 276
"Will the hammer of a M745 drop against the engaged safety? If so, I was unaware of this. AFAIK the only somewhat commonplace pistols that will do this are the Walther PK380 and P22 and the Mauser HSc, but perhaps the M745 needs to be added to the list."

Yes the hammer will drop in any state of the safety. Absolutely no interaction of the safety and trigger. Safety actually blocks/locks the firing pin when engaged because I tried pushing the partially exposed firing pin with a small driver, no enchilada. No spring loaded firing pin block in the slide like many other designs. The safety lever within the slide does all the locking/blocking. Safety also blocks the hammer by raising a guard preventing the dropped hammer from hitting the firing pin.

I've only read one post in the past of someone liking the 745 so much that they would carry it. I guess it needs to be treated like a Glock with a safety, keep finger off trigger until ready to shoot.

Perhaps you can enlighten me/us as to why S&W has always made their version of a 45auto bushingless and not all 9mm. I recently viewed images of the high-end 952 9mm and it appears to have a bushing. Even the high-end 945 45ACP is bushingless I believe.

Last edited by 745SW; October 18, 2012 at 12:04 AM.
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Old October 18, 2012, 12:06 AM   #24
balance
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Join Date: December 13, 2010
Posts: 377
Serpico had a Hi Power.

Quote:
Nice 5904 Balance, my wife and I have matching his/her 469's, I've been looking for a 5904 for a while, most of them look like they were dragged behind a truck.
This one definitely has its character marks.

The 659 left a positive impression on me with the pre-polymer S&W pistols though, so I wanted something that I wouldn't mind carrying and scuffing up. There's something about all metal pistols that just feels more real to me, like what I'm holding is actually a pistol, if that makes sense. I'll probably keep on carrying my PPQ, but this one may make its way to my belt on some occasions.
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Old October 18, 2012, 08:48 AM   #25
jaysouth
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Join Date: February 27, 2001
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 575
Balance

You now have the best of both worlds. An all steel 659 for home and range and basically the same gun in alloy for carry, vehicle.

If you buy mags, get LE trade in Smith or Meg gars from CDNN. The Meggars may be a better value for the money. Either will totally reliable.
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