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Old October 21, 2012, 08:42 PM   #1
checkmyswag
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AR optic decision

I can't decide between a red dot with magnifier and a 1-4x scope.

I don't want to spend to a lot.

Looking at Primary Arms or Bushnell red dot and Primary Arms magnifier.

For a scope I've been considering the Nikon M223 1-4x and similar ones by Burris, Leupold and Weaver.

I am committed to keeping the fixed front sight post. I want to have quick shots up close but some magnification for farther targets.

Can you point me to some images of the FSP at the different magnifications? I know the FSP will be there, I just don't want it to be a mess or distracting.

Which direction did/would you go and why? Red dot w magnifier or 1-4x scope?
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Old October 21, 2012, 10:31 PM   #2
Flopsweat
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1) I can't decide between a red dot with magnifier and a 1-4x scope.

2) I don't want to spend to a lot.

This one is easy. Cheap red-dot + cheap magnifier = sad checkmyswag. Get a nice 1-4X and you'll be happy. You're on the right track with scope brands. I really like the Weaver - got one on a shottie and like it a lot. It really takes a beating too - don't ask.
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Old October 21, 2012, 10:58 PM   #3
checkmyswag
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Cheap red-dot + cheap magnifier = sad checkmyswag. Get a nice 1-4X and you'll be happy.
Good stuff, these boards need more humor.

I think I can get away with the Bushnell TRS 25 from what I've red, it's a quality lower cost red dot. With a magnifier...and flip mount, I think you're right, I won't be able to go on the cheap.

I think I need to just accept the front sight post being there with the scope and drive on.
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Old October 22, 2012, 06:36 AM   #4
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I feel magnifiers are a waste of money, the optic quality is terrible. If you a magnified optic get a M223 or similar. The PA Micro is a great red dot and is very affordable. The red dot may not be great for shooting small groups but for minute of milk jug out to 200yds it gets it done.
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Old October 22, 2012, 06:41 AM   #5
Crow Hunter
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I would choose the 1X4 over a red dot and a magnifier.

Both are heavy, but the red dot and magnifier together are heavier (the Aimpoint M4 and Magnifier that I used to have were) and a flip to the side mount makes it even more unwieldy.

Personally, I have problems with the FSB being visible in the optic.

At low power, it isn't a problem. At 4x it was like a hair was between by shooting glasses and my eye at best, at worst it was smudge that obscured part of the target. The brighter the overhead light, the worse it was.

Inside, I didn't really notice it. Outside, in bright sunlight it was noticeable enough to become a distraction.

I tried the same optic (Trijicon TR24) on my brother's Colt 6940 (folding front sight) and it was fine. Didn't bother me at all.

You will just have to bite the bullet and try it. Unless you know someone who has one that you could try out.
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Old October 22, 2012, 07:22 PM   #6
checkmyswag
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Are some scopes or positions less prone to turning the fixed front sight into a blurry distraction than others?

I'm between a red dot (no magnifier) and a 1-4x scope now.
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Old October 23, 2012, 07:01 AM   #7
Crow Hunter
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The closer you can get the objective lense to the front post and thereby the closer you can get your nose to the charging handle, the less you can see it in my experience.

I don't shoot nose to charging handle though. I have tried shooting that way and I just don't do as well as I do around 2 or 3 inches back from the charging handle.

You might, however, be limited on how far forward you can go with the mount you choose and if you have a continuous top rail or just a standard top rail.

Larue (and others) make a cantilevered mount that will let you get further forward.

I really think you are going to have to get 1 of each and try it, and sell what doesn't work for you. Unless you know someone that has both.

If you were somewhere close to West TN I would be happy to let you try both out and see for yourself.
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Old October 23, 2012, 07:30 AM   #8
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Burris AR332. A 3x...not 1-4x, but an excellent sight. I tortured mine. Passed with flying colors.
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Old October 24, 2012, 03:18 AM   #9
Flopsweat
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I have an EOTech on an AR with a fixed front sight and I like it just fine. I have it mounted as far forward on the rail as I can, and a flip-up BUIS behind it. They cowitness perfectly, and the front post does not bother me at all when I use the dot. It did take me a couple of weeks to get used to it.
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Old October 24, 2012, 07:13 AM   #10
checkmyswag
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I know the red dot is supposed to work well with the fixed fsp.

Thinking of going that direction. Bushnell TRS-25 gets really good reviews for less than $100.

What I'd like is a 1-4x scope though so long as the fixed fsp doesn't bother me. This route is also 2-3x more expensive.
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Old October 24, 2012, 08:07 AM   #11
allaroundhunter
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Quote:
What I'd like is a 1-4x scope though so long as the fixed fsp doesn't bother me.
I know I've posted elsewhere when you asked this question, but I will address this here on TFL.

You are right, many people don't mind the FSP being there with a red dot sight. However, a 1-4x scope is no different when set on 1x magnification. You will see the same thing, and it will still be like you are looking through a tube. Shots are still made with both eyes open, sight picture is still easily acquired. The only major difference is eye relief.

If you go with the Burris, then it really is just a red dot sight that has a built in variable magnifier.....hard to beat that.

But you are also right, the 1-4x's are more expensive..... My final thought is that if you think that you would prefer a 1-4x but buy a TRS, you will shortly end up buying a 1-4x scope as well. That means that you would end up spending more on optics in the long run.
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Old October 24, 2012, 12:54 PM   #12
checkmyswag
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Originally Posted by allaroundhunter View Post
My final thought is that if you think that you would prefer a 1-4x but buy a TRS, you will shortly end up buying a 1-4x scope as well. That means that you would end up spending more on optics in the long run.
I think this is true of most purchases when we try to go on the cheap.

I think the advantage is with the scope. Just need to be willing to part w the money and not buy a red dot in the meantime.
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Old October 24, 2012, 02:14 PM   #13
allaroundhunter
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Here are two more "affordable" options that are well liked.

Bresser True View

Millett DMS


ETA: Heck, here is a nice 1-4x Leupold for only $230
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Old October 27, 2012, 10:11 AM   #14
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Leatherwood CMR 1-4x
Etched ballistic drop reticle and 1 minute illuminated dot.
Bought one a few years ago when they first came out, outstanding clarity for Chinese glass...

http://swfa.com/Leatherwood-CMR-Tact...pes-C1519.aspx
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