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Old September 15, 2012, 11:30 AM   #1
Snort
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Walther PPQ Question

Having shot the PPQ, I'm amazed at how much I like it. However, consensus on this and other forums seems to be that the trigger that makes it so appealing is simply too light for carry. It may be my relative newness to firearms, but it doesn't seem like the actual pull weight on the PPQ is all that different from similar offerings from Glock and Springfield, so I'm curious why the PPQ gets the "unsafe to carry" label, while a Glock 19 or a Springfield XD doesn't?
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Old September 15, 2012, 11:48 AM   #2
blackamos
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I don't think it is unsafe to carry, you just have to get a good holster. If your going to carry in the waist band I like kydex holsters, for on the belt carry I like a good leather. As always keep your finger off the trigger till your ready to fire.
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Old September 15, 2012, 11:48 AM   #3
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Walther rates the Walther PPQ trigger pull at 5.5 lbs which is right in the same range as many other pistols.

IMO many have never experienced a truely nice trigger release and they get the impression it is a lighter pull but it is not. With the Walther PPQ you simply apply pressure to the trigger and it breaks.

I had to laugh as I let my son try my PPQ and even though he shot it better than is CZ he still said he did not like the "hair trigger" LOL.

When I try his CZ75 I see why as in SA trigger mode there is a lot of travel and grit - like a bumpy road before the trigger releases and he is used to that feedback. You don't get that with the PPQ - just the boom of the cartridge being ignited.

The Walther PPQ and P99 AS are my favorite poly frame combat pistols bar none for many reasons and not just the superb trigger - size, weight, ergonomics, reliability, durability, cool looks, and unreal accuracy.

Last edited by sigarms228; September 15, 2012 at 11:53 AM.
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Old September 15, 2012, 11:54 AM   #4
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I dunno. The rationale I read is that the "DA"-style trigger of the Glocks and the XDs - where the striker's only half-cocked or whatever - somehow protects you more than the PPQ's full-cocked striker state. Dunno if I buy that, since it seems to me that, in either case, a trigger pull's resulting in the gun going bang.
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Old September 15, 2012, 11:55 AM   #5
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I've carried the PPQ many times in a hybrid holster; I never felt it was unsafe... Booger hook off the bang switch and you're good to go.
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Old September 15, 2012, 11:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
dunno. The rationale I read is that the "DA"-style trigger of the Glocks and the XDs - where the striker's only half-cocked or whatever - somehow protects you more than the PPQ's full-cocked striker state. Dunno if I buy that, since it seems to me that, in either case, a trigger pull's resulting in the gun going bang.
Bunch of BS fron fanboys of competing brands IMO.

The Walther P99 AS is the perfect pistol for those that like the PPQ in every regard but don't want the constant action trigger like the PPQ/Glock/XD/M&P. The P99 AS has the antistress trigger option and and the capability to emulate a DA hammer fired pistol and has a decock.
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Old September 15, 2012, 12:01 PM   #7
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I've carried the PPQ many times in a hybrid holster; I never felt it was unsafe... Booger hook off the bang switch and you're good to go.
How's it handle IWB carry?

I seriously love this pistol, I'm just a 1911 guy with a security blanket mentality for both hammers and manual safeties. Gotta get over the hump I suppose.
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Old September 15, 2012, 01:58 PM   #8
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I don't think the trigger weight is the issue as much as trigger travel distance in the second stage as well as the reset distance. The PPQs first stage of trigger pull is a safety feature. In some schools it is "on target on trigger". You aim in at a target you automatically pull all the first stage slack out of the trigger. Being a short travel distance in a crisp trigger it is fairly easy for a nervous person to shoot off a round. When it comes to the reset people who are used to pistols that reset a good bit before the triggers second stage often have the habit of pulling the slack out of the trigger upon firing. Which could potentially lead to an accidental double tap.
None of these are issues that the appropriate "software" can't handle. My PPQ is my carry gun so you can guess where I stand on the issue.
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Old September 16, 2012, 02:19 AM   #9
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I've carried mine IWB a few times. The trigger isn't a problem. I would happily carry it IWB full time, if it were slightly smaller.

If a work opportunity I'm exploring pans out, I'll be open carrying it. I love that pistol.
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Old September 20, 2012, 06:37 AM   #10
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Been carrying mine OWB but am going to buy an IWB holster soon. Yes the trigger is light but there is bit of take up and as mentioned before..keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire!!
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Old September 20, 2012, 05:57 PM   #11
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As with any trigger you must train with it. I feel it is as safe as the user. Similar to the trigger on my HK 45 with the Light LEM. Love my PPQ.
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Old September 20, 2012, 09:32 PM   #12
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If a G19/G17/G26 is safe to carry, the PPQ is safe to carry.
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Old September 21, 2012, 04:34 PM   #13
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It's no more or less safe than any other similar pistol. If you ask me, and this may seem a bit harsh, anybody who expects a pistol to pick up any of the slack for them when it comes to safety probably shouldn't be carrying a pistol. When it comes to picking out a carry gun, it's all about your proficiency level with that pistol, not what safety features it has. Just my opinion.

That said, I carried the PPQ for a while and I'm back to a Glock. The Glock for some reason carries a bit more comfortably even though it's very similar in size (it's a 19).
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Old September 21, 2012, 08:45 PM   #14
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It isn't unsafe to carry. It does have the same weight trigger as a stock Glock. If you can safely carry a Glock, you can safely carry a PPQ. It is not safe to carry a pistol that has a trigger so light that you might unintentionally fire the pistol. I don't see how the 5-6lb PPQ trigger with the safety on the trigger warrants that caution.
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Old September 21, 2012, 10:46 PM   #15
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Not saying that the PPQ is unsafe....but let me point out something, based on experience, which might put the issue into perspective.

I had a striker-fired pistol that operated similarly to the PPQ - that is, fully cocked when a round was in the chamber (and it couldn't be carried loaded without this condition). A very small part, a portion of the SA sear assembly, broke, causing the pistol to go full automatic. Granted, as I was firing the pistol at the time and I probably held the trigger back during the FA "event" (while hanging on to keep the muzzle under control).....it is possible that the event might have stopped with only "doubling"....if I had released the trigger. Nevertheless, understand that, if a similar internal failure occurred with the PPQ, the ONLY thing that would prevent an accidental discharge would be the FP block. Those devices, consisting only of a spring-loaded plunger, are NOT "fool-proof". They CAN stick, if dirt and residue are allowed to build up in them. They are hard to clean, because of the tight space in which they reside. AND with virtually all of the pistols so-equipped on the market, a sticking FP block is UNDETECTABLE to the shooter, until something goes wrong.

With the totality of that in mind, no one should EVER completely trust the FP block on ANY pistol. So, a fully cocked, loaded pistol is NEVER completely safe....and even less so, if the FP block is ultimately the "only line of defense" in case of the failure of another part.

This is why, at this point in history, I will NOT have a pistol that cannot be carried completely UN-COCKED, if a round is in the chamber. This includes, for me, the "partial-cocked" types, such as the Glocks. There is only a REMOTE chance that problems would ever occur....but I am not willing to take that chance myself. What everyone else does is their business.
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Old September 21, 2012, 11:24 PM   #16
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My PPQ trigger breaks right at five pounds. It breaks in the same exact place every time consistently. My glocks have the mush triggers that feels much heavier and inconsistent, but break at just over five pounds on the gauge... The gauge doesn't lie. I reckon my PPQ is as safe as any Glock out there, and has roughly the same force requirement to pull the trigger. The PPQ's trigger just works more like a trigger ought to. That being said, I would sure dig a manual safety on the walther... (Hint for our German friends that make these excellent firearms)
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Old September 22, 2012, 01:28 AM   #17
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@wpsdlrg: Which gun did you have and which part broke? There is no reason to defend a manufacturer/gun on the internet. People might want this information so they know who/what to avoid.

Yes, when guns break, bad things can happen (but this applies to every gun). Do you carry revolvers? Because, even though you can carry a Sig, HK, etc with the hammer down, that won't help you with this failure. The hammer is cocked after the first shot. So if the equivalent event occurred with a Sig, HK, etc those guns would go full-auto also (you were firing the striker-fired pistol when that part broke so the Sig, HK, etc would have been cocked as well). Also, the firing pin block never had a chance to work in your situation because you had the trigger pressed all the way to the rear (which deactivates the firing pin block).

If the issue is that this failure can even occur in your holster with a cocked PPQ. I assert that this situation still couldn't happen. Since you haven't fired the gun yet and you aren't holding the trigger to the rear the firing pin block is blocking the path of the striker (it hasn't been pushed up and then gotten "stuck" yet).

Its really easy to clean the firing pin block, too. On the PPQ you simply have to apply slight external pressure on the extractor, then fully depress the plunger located aft (rear) of the firing pin block. This will allow you to remove the extractor from the slide. Then, you can simply pull the firing pin block and spring out of the slide. You are then free to clean the firing pin block and firing pin block channel to your heart's content. Make sure you keep the firing pin block channel and striker channel debris free and dry (or VERY VERY minimally lubed) and you are good to go.

I mean no offense. But, I don't like misinformation. And, just to be clear, I'm not labeling what you said misinformation, yet. I just see flaws in your reasoning and I wanted to give you the opportunity to address them. I don't want the OP to be misinformed.
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Old September 22, 2012, 07:03 PM   #18
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My PPQ trigger breaks right at five pounds. It breaks in the same exact place every time consistently. My glocks have the mush triggers that feels much heavier and inconsistent, but break at just over five pounds on the gauge... The gauge doesn't lie. I reckon my PPQ is as safe as any Glock out there, and has roughly the same force requirement to pull the trigger. The PPQ's trigger just works more like a trigger ought to.
I agree.

To the OP, whether or not it is safe depends on the shooter. Whether or not you are comfortable with carrying a pistol with this trigger depends on your preference in triggers and your own comfort level.

There are people out there that don't feel comfortable carrying Glocks either, so if you don't feel safe with a trigger that short or light, you are not alone. If this is the case, don't carry it. Make your own choice.

Personally, I have no issue with my PPQ's trigger, and I carry it every day.

Quote:
That being said, I would sure dig a manual safety on the walther... (Hint for our German friends that make these excellent firearms)
Walther has been a DA/SA pistol manufacturer since they invented this trigger action over 80 years ago on the Walther PP. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but every model of defensive pistol that Walther has released since 1929 was designed around the DA/SA trigger action.

I believe the PPQ is the first model of defensive pistol from Walther to not have a DA/SA trigger variant since 1929. It seems that they are trying something new for the American market, and them setting up shop here in the US tells me that they are starting to show more interest here, but I don't know if we will see a cocked and locked Walther (or a .45, or a .357Sig) just yet, if ever.

I prefer cocked and locked pistols.
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Old September 22, 2012, 08:01 PM   #19
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I never liked the Glock trigge even though I own 3 of them. After dry firing a PPQ at my dealer for 30 minutes, the Glock trigger feels crappy. The PPQ raised the bar for striker pistol triggers. I am a DA/SA guy but I will be dumping one or some of my Glocks for a PPQ.
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Old September 22, 2012, 10:07 PM   #20
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"@wpsdlrg: Which gun did you have and which part broke? There is no reason to defend a manufacturer/gun on the internet. People might want this information so they know who/what to avoid."


Nope. I'm not going into that, because it will just become a point of distraction, which some will use as a pretext to rationalize away the general point I was making - that ANY pistol that can or must be carried cocked (with a loaded chamber) has the potential for unintended discharge problems. You are missing the point entirely if you focus only on the specifics of any particular brand or configuration - the GENRE is the issue here.




"Yes, when guns break, bad things can happen (but this applies to every gun). Do you carry revolvers? Because, even though you can carry a Sig, HK, etc with the hammer down, that won't help you with this failure. The hammer is cocked after the first shot. So if the equivalent event occurred with a Sig, HK, etc those guns would go full-auto also (you were firing the striker-fired pistol when that part broke so the Sig, HK, etc would have been cocked as well). Also, the firing pin block never had a chance to work in your situation because you had the trigger pressed all the way to the rear (which deactivates the firing pin block)."


I was speaking about ALL pistols that can or must be carried cocked or partially cocked (with a loaded chamber). The point I made regarding the FP block as NOT foolproof also applies BEFORE any shots are fired in a range session or string of fire - as a sticking FP block is, with almost all pistols on the market, undetectable. If the FP block is sticking, it MIGHT not be much of a safety aid, even in your nice clean weapon. With a pistol that can be safely carried completely UN-cocked (with a chambered round)....it is very different.



"If the issue is that this failure can even occur in your holster with a cocked PPQ. I assert that this situation still couldn't happen. Since you haven't fired the gun yet and you aren't holding the trigger to the rear the firing pin block is blocking the path of the striker (it hasn't been pushed up and then gotten "stuck" yet)."


Again, the FP block is NOT foolproof. If it happens to be sticking in the "off" position, due to manufacturing debris, built up crud or whatever, it will be NO protection at all in the situation which you describe. In that scenario, the position of the trigger has no bearing or effect. And here is where the rationalization can start. I can hear it now - "oh, the odds of that ever happening are very small !!!" Yes, very true - but I DID acknowledge the remote nature of the possibility (in my previous post). However remote though, this scenario certainly CAN happen.





"Its really easy to clean the firing pin block, too. On the PPQ you simply have to apply slight external pressure on the extractor, then fully depress the plunger located aft (rear) of the firing pin block. This will allow you to remove the extractor from the slide. Then, you can simply pull the firing pin block and spring out of the slide. You are then free to clean the firing pin block and firing pin block channel to your heart's content. Make sure you keep the firing pin block channel and striker channel debris free and dry (or VERY VERY minimally lubed) and you are good to go."


Certainly.....and I am glad to hear it. However, "very easy" does NOT translate into "everybody does it as often as they should". You and I both know that only a minority of shooters EVER pay as much attention to maintenance as they probably should. If they did, then the overall incidence of breakage and failure in general would likely be much lower. Again, my previous comments were simply an illustration of the possibilities for pistols which can or must be carried cocked (with a chambered round) - general in nature and not intended to be definitive nor directed at any one brand or type, including the PPQ.




"I mean no offense. But, I don't like misinformation. And, just to be clear, I'm not labeling what you said misinformation, yet. I just see flaws in your reasoning and I wanted to give you the opportunity to address them. I don't want the OP to be misinformed."

Neither do I wish the OP to be misinformed - and I hate misinformation as well. That is exactly WHY I wrote what I did. Surely you are NOT suggesting that FP block malfunctions/ failures are not possible....or never happen ??!! If that is not your assertion, then my "reasoning" cannot possibly be flawed - it is simply a statement of fact. My illustration, based on my own experience, was simply to drive home the concept of the (possible) consequences of failures of this sort. Again - remote possibility - but possible nonetheless.

The fact remains, NO safety device is EVER completely trustworthy. Pistols that can or must be carried cocked (or partially cocked) with a loaded chamber present a certain level of danger that does not necessarily exist with those that don't. Everyone SHOULD be aware of this and fully understand the concept. It's as simple as that.

THAT is in NO way "misinformation". How could it be ?

Last edited by wpsdlrg; September 22, 2012 at 10:12 PM.
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Old September 23, 2012, 06:50 PM   #21
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There are millions of examples of firearms not accidentally discharging that trump the point you are trying to make wpsdlrg.
You would be hard pressed to find an example of a pistol firing without the trigger having been pulled. Be it police officers, military personel or drunk rednecks. Statistically it doesn't happen.
Your point is odd at best. You seem to be stating gasoline sitting in your automobile's gas tank is dangerous despite the car sitting in your driveway with the engine off. Sure you could argue that gas is flammable and toxic to breathe and the various safety measures installed to prevent gas tank explosions COULD fail but why? Why would you make that point? It's so improbable it's not worth noting.
I think the concept of carrying an object that fires a metal projectile 1000-1300 feet per second through a barrel that is sitting, at any given point, no more than a few inches from at least one of your own vital organs is what could be generally described as Potentially"dangerous". I suspect that fact is not lost on the membership here.
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Old October 3, 2012, 11:19 PM   #22
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I apologize if this counts as "resurrecting" the thread. I was busy but I still want to address what wpsdlrg said.

@wpsdlrg: If I knew what gun malfunctioned and how it malfunctioned I could have a better idea of how it failed, and more importantly, how to prevent it. The cause is just as important as the effect. Focusing on the effect and not the cause isn't a good path to solving an issue.

"...that ANY pistol that can or must be carried cocked (with a loaded chamber) has the potential for unintended discharge problems."

Every gun has the potential for unintended discharge problems. If you drop a gun that has a firing pin that isn't attached to the hammer on the muzzle... a firing pin block (specifically one that impedes the path of the firing pin/striker) is all that is there to stop the pistol from discharging. If your gun has a firing pin attached to the hammer and you drop the gun on the hammer the gun will fire (and I don't believe guns that have firing pins on the hammer have firing pin blocks... because they are single action revolvers).


So, lets talk about this "potential". Specifically, a cocked PPQ will only fire if:
1) The sear releases the striker.
2) The firing pin block is not in the path of the striker.

"Potentially" how can the sear release the striker by itself? How can the firing pin block not do its job if you actually cleaned it? These things don't happen by magic.

"If the FP block is sticking, it MIGHT not be much of a safety aid, even in your nice clean weapon."

So what you are telling me is that a maintained weapon will just stop working by magic? If the firing pin block is clean... then how can it stick? Dirt can cause it to stick... but we already established it is clean. So, what are you saying?

"Again, the FP block is NOT foolproof. If it happens to be sticking in the "off" position, due to manufacturing debris, built up crud or whatever, it will be NO protection at all in the situation which you describe. In that scenario, the position of the trigger has no bearing or effect. And here is where the rationalization can start. I can hear it now - "oh, the odds of that ever happening are very small !!!" Yes, very true - but I DID acknowledge the remote nature of the possibility (in my previous post). However remote though, this scenario certainly CAN happen."

So how does it stick in the "off" position? If its dirty, right? So, since we cleaned it then it won't stick right? I don't see an issue unless you don't maintain your gun. No, the odds of the firing pin block getting dirty are good. However, the odds of it falling into a state where it will fail is up to you. Inspect your gun, make sure it works, and then it will. Also, the firing pin block doesn't even begin to do its job unless the sear-striker relationship is already messed up. You still have to explain what has gone wrong to cause the striker to just start autonomously slipping off the sear before you begin to criticize the firing pin block.

"Certainly.....and I am glad to hear it. However, "very easy" does NOT translate into "everybody does it as often as they should"."

I have no sympathy for people who buy a gun and then don't do their utmost to learn how to safely maintain and use it. You can't blame a car for breaking down if you never change the oil. The difference is that a gun is intended to be deadly, while a car is merely intended to be transportation. So, you should probably take the maintenance of a gun more seriously than your car. (Please note, if there is a malfunction that arises because of the manufacturer/design I squarely lay the blame on the manufacturer/designer's shoulders.)

"If that is not your assertion, then my "reasoning" cannot possibly be flawed - it is simply a statement of fact."

Where your reasoning is flawed is that you are turning the blame towards the gun instead of your lack of maintenance. And, like I pointed out, a gun will only fail you if you don't maintain it.
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Old October 3, 2012, 11:49 PM   #23
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The rationale I read is that the "DA"-style trigger of the Glocks and the XDs - where the striker's only half-cocked or whatever
I believe the XD is at full cock.

Quote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but every model of defensive pistol that Walther has released since 1929 was designed around the DA/SA trigger action.
Other than a .25 (TP), and variations of the P99 (p990, P99QA, P99QSA, P99Q), P99 RAD, and of course the PPQ, and PPS, this is correct.
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Old October 4, 2012, 05:31 PM   #24
balance
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Other than a .25 (TP), and variations of the P99 (p990, P99QA, P99QSA, P99Q), P99 RAD, and of course the PPQ, and PPS, this is correct.


Well, the P99 was designed around the DA/SA trigger action. The other variants were designed later. Thinking about it now, I'd even consider the PPQ as a variant of the P99 with them being as similar as they are, and the P99Q can be decocked as well.

But you are right that the TP and PPS were not designed around the DA/SA trigger action. I forgot about these two, and I actually own a PPS.

My point was that the majority of pistols designed by Walther after they released their first DA/SA pistol, were almost all designed around the DA/SA trigger (PP, PPK, P1/P-38, PP Super, P4, P5, P88, P99, etc.), and Walther just recently began offering different trigger options, other than the TP.
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Old October 5, 2012, 04:11 AM   #25
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I own almost every major brand of polymers and can tell you it is not so different from the others to make it unsafe. I would use a good holster for anything I would carry and would feel gtg.
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