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Old October 5, 2012, 12:00 PM   #1
mete
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Sideways Gangster Shooting

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...technique.html


The real reason is that IT COMES THAT WAY IN THE BOX !
More gun nonsense presented to the clueless public ! Nice drawings of the Patridge sight BTW. Patridge sought advice from eye doctors before designing that sight [what a novel idea ! ] His sight is still the best sight for handguns after 130 years ! When shooting always concentrate on the FRONT SIGHT !
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Old October 5, 2012, 12:04 PM   #2
aarondhgraham
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Best of both worlds,,,

Let's not do the "Homeyboy" gangsta sights, and say we didn't, OK?
.
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Last edited by Mike Irwin; October 5, 2012 at 12:49 PM. Reason: tired cliche
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Old October 5, 2012, 12:08 PM   #3
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Most modern handguns lock up at an angle, to account for bullet travel through the barrel as the gun recoils upward; that is, the barrel is aiming down, below the aiming point, and the bullet is rising as it moves down the barrel. That's why handguns hit in different locations depending who's holding the gun, as the gun will rise more or less depending on strength of grip and solidity of shooting stance. Turn the gun on its side, and the barrel is now pointing off to the side of the intended target, enough that at ranges beyond yelling distance, you're likely to miss the target altogether if you have the side of the slide sort-of pointed at the target. Thank God for the gangsta grip!
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Old October 5, 2012, 12:39 PM   #4
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In rotating the handgun for shooting, the sight pictue rotates accordingly. If you normaly use a six o'clock hold, you must use a twelve o'clock hold if the gun is upside down, three o'clock if the sights are to you left, nine o'clock if the sights are to your right.


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Old October 5, 2012, 12:53 PM   #5
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OK, time to set some ground rules if this thread is to survive...

First, NO linking in the ridiculous "Homeboy Sights."

Those are ludicrous and bordering on racist.

Second, this is actually a fairly serious article, so keep your comments serious.

If things start to break down, I'll close the thread in heartbeat.
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Old October 5, 2012, 12:59 PM   #6
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Mike,

I have actually tried shooting "around the clock" many years ago. When I was very young I had aspirations of being an exhibition shooter. That, plus the fact that I tried to learn everything possible about the handgun led me to try nearly anything I felt was safe to try.

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Old October 5, 2012, 02:30 PM   #7
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When I did a defensive pistol course we were taught to slightly rotate the pistol when shooting with one hand. It was explained that it was a more natural position for the hand / wrist. Thats not to say it was completly sideways but I could see where there could be benefits to it.
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Old October 5, 2012, 03:13 PM   #8
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We did this for one of the prize games at the end of the season banquet for my pistol league ("Ok, so now everyone shoots gangster style this round").

No one's score went up.
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Old October 5, 2012, 03:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
When I did a defensive pistol course we were taught to slightly rotate the pistol when shooting with one hand. It was explained that it was a more natural position for the hand / wrist. Thats not to say it was completly sideways but I could see where there could be benefits to it.
Yep.

Me too.

The wrist locks more naturally if it is canted slightly inboard and recoil control is enhanced. (Like between 11:00 and 12:00 for a right handed shooter vs perfectly 12:00, not parallel with the horizon like this article.)

If you are shooting fast and one handed, like in a life/death situation, it is likely close and getting multiple hits quickly was more important than hitting exactly where you sights were looking. It was for shooting at bad breath distances though.
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Old October 5, 2012, 04:28 PM   #10
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There is a certain ergonomics to the gangster grip, if you think about it, in that when you raise your arm, the most relaxed way to do so is to raise it palm down. To turn the hand in another direction requires at least some muscular effort to rotate the elbow and/or the shoulder. If a gun was designed around that fact, it might be ever so slightly advantageous in slow fire, but recoil would be a mess.
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Old October 5, 2012, 04:48 PM   #11
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With some of my guns, canting will get the front sight embedded in your forehead.

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Old October 5, 2012, 04:55 PM   #12
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From the article:
Quote:
Instead, gangsters - albeit unkowingly - use another method to get what's called a 'flash sight picture' by quickly aiming down the side of the gun barrel without perfectly lining it up with the target.
What a load of Hooey.

The flash sight picture uses the, uh ....... wait for it...... sights.

Pointing the gun at your target without lining up the sights is ..... point shooting.

I guess the bar to be an expert on shooting, in a country in which private ownership of guns is so severely curtailed that very few people actually know much about the subject, can be pretty low: In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.
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Old October 5, 2012, 05:50 PM   #13
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At a local gun range my wife,a friend,and myself were shooting next to three individuals who were shooting "Gangsta." Hand in left pocket,leaning back,Hi-point in right hand canted sideways.All three of us were on pistol teams in the Army,my wife and friend are pistol instructors in local LEO.Needless to say we were shooting groups,they were shooting the floor,the ceiling,and the target retrieval bracket.After complementing each other on how badazz they were,they were asked to leave.I have no doubt how a street shooting with them would turn out.
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Old October 5, 2012, 05:59 PM   #14
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Lots of tests have been made comparing using sights vs point shooting .The conclusion has been that while using the sights [while drawing from holster] adds a very small amount of time you DOUBLE your hit probability ,over point shooting !
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Old October 5, 2012, 06:09 PM   #15
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More than just the "sighs" on a handgun can be used to sight it.

One of the ways I speed shoot my snubnose revolvers is to sight down the left side of the topstrap in right angle that it makes where it meets the top of the cylinder.

I'm not pointing, I'm aiming.

Point shooting, to me, means not even bringing the gun to eye level.
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Old October 5, 2012, 07:02 PM   #16
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'[Point shooting, to me, means not even bringing the gun to eye level.]"

Exactly, & Is a handy form of practice IMO ; )
Y/D
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Old October 6, 2012, 03:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
When I did a defensive pistol course we were taught to slightly rotate the pistol when shooting with one hand. It was explained that it was a more natural position for the hand / wrist. Thats not to say it was completly sideways but I could see where there could be benefits to it.
I too learned this, but only when shooting weak hand only (Or is it called support hand these days? ) With my left arm straight out in what could be called a one handed isosceles stance I have to cant the weapon a very slight bit to utilize my dominant eye.
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Old October 6, 2012, 06:38 PM   #18
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It is called point shooting, instinctive shooting or whatever the instructor dejour wants to call it. I guess gangster shooting is ok for the untrained, but whatever floats your boat.

Rotating your firing hand slightly while shooting one handed is helpful in reducing tension in your forearm muscles and enables more accurate shot placement for that reason.
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Old October 6, 2012, 08:07 PM   #19
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Now next time I go to the range, I am going to want to shoot "gangster style"
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Old October 6, 2012, 09:59 PM   #20
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I tried it, not much success, rapid fire not many hits. I tried a revolver upside down using the sights, this would work with practice, at least with a .38.
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Old October 7, 2012, 06:13 AM   #21
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This makes me think of a cartoon called the boondocks. These gangsta's wanted to shoot a rapper execution style but they were aiming gangsta style. Well, they emptied their guns at him and never hit him once. Just a cartoon but goes to show you cant hit anything aiming sideways.
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Old October 7, 2012, 01:31 PM   #22
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But the sideways stuff looks so good on TV.
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Old October 7, 2012, 04:07 PM   #23
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Yes a cartoon emulates real life so perfectly....
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Old October 7, 2012, 05:34 PM   #24
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Well, if the gangsta's around here ever getting to shooting back, and 10' or more seperate us, I hope they hold their weapons sideways, or even upside down. I'll feel a bit safer then.
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Old October 7, 2012, 05:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
More than just the "sighs" on a handgun can be used to sight it.

One of the ways I speed shoot my snubnose revolvers is to sight down the left side of the topstrap in right angle that it makes where it meets the top of the cylinder.

I'm not pointing, I'm aiming.

Point shooting, to me, means not even bringing the gun to eye level.
Shotguns are pointed, at eye level. If you are not bringing the gun up and pointing it (as you would a finger), and instead pointing it from waist level, that's "hip shooting".
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