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Old September 10, 2012, 12:55 PM   #1
LockedBreech
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Which 7mm is 7mm?

This is a very stupid, very simple question, since I'm just starting to shop around for a bolt rifle.

When people say they have a "7mm rifle", are they generally referring to 7mm-08 or 7mm Rem Mag?

Also, for general purposes, could I get a basic power ranking of the most popular hunting cartridges? For instance, I know .30-06 is mostly equal to .308 but can be loaded a bit heavier, and that .270 Win is weaker than those but overpowers .243. My trouble is figuring out where rounds like 7mm (either one), 22-250, and 300 WSM fit.

Thanks for humoring me

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Old September 10, 2012, 01:02 PM   #2
TimW77
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Maybe neither, maybe both, maybe the 7X57mm Mauser or one of over a dozen other cartridges...

This is exactly why it is important to know the meaning of words and USE THE RIGHT WORDS.

7mm is a CALIBER.

The 7mm-08 and 7mm RM are CARTRIDGES.

T.
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Old September 10, 2012, 01:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimW77 View Post
Maybe neither, maybe both, maybe the 7X57mm Mauser or one of over a dozen other cartridges...

This is exactly why it is important to know the meaning of words and USE THE RIGHT WORDS.

7mm is a CALIBER.

The 7mm-08 and 7mm RM are CARTRIDGES.

T.
[EDIT: explained in PM]

My question is, when used colloquially, which cartridge is that caliber generally referring to - sort of like when someone says they own a .45, they probably mean ACP and not LC.

If they're all equally popular, it's okay if there's no proper answer.

My general concern, as a non-reloader, is choosing a well-supported, well-established cartridge.

Last edited by LockedBreech; September 10, 2012 at 01:27 PM.
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Old September 10, 2012, 01:47 PM   #4
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When people say they have a "7mm rifle", are they generally referring to 7mm-08 or 7mm Rem Mag?
....or 7mm Mauser (aka 7x57), or 7STW (7mm Shooting Times Westerner, akaShoots Through Wisconsin)or the 7mm Weatherby Magnum .... or, or,or .....

The .280 Remington is a 7mm rifle, as well, as is the 7-30 Waters .... and the 7mm Remington Ultramag ....

7mm is a bore diameter. There are quite a lot of cartridges that use it.

Quote:
could I get a basic power ranking of the most popular hunting cartridges? For instance, I know .30-06 is mostly equal to .308 but can be loaded a bit heavier, and that .270 Win is weaker than those but overpowers .243. My trouble is figuring out where rounds like 7mm (either one), 22-250, and 300 WSM fit.
That's a huge subject, and answers are not definitive- the .308, despite have less case capacity, has a higher SAAMI pressure limit, mostly due to the 100 year old 30-06 guns out there....

Of the 7mm cartridges I listed, the least powerful is the 7-30 Waters (.284" bullet in a 30/30 case), the 7x57 and 7-08 (a .284" bullet in a .308 case) are roughly equal when loaded to their full potential, the .280 (a .284" bullet in a 30-06 case is next going up in power (relatively speaking), then the 7mm Remington Magnum, then the 7 Weatherby magnum, then the 7STW (a .284" bullet in an 8mm Remington Magnum case) ...... the Ultramag is largest production 7mm that I know of ..... the case allows 7+ cc of usable case capacity- charge weights run 80 to 100 grains of powder..... it's overkill. I'm sure there are others, some of which are obsolete (7TCU? 7WSM?)....

Quote:
My general concern, as a non-reloader, is choosing a well-supported, well-established cartridge.
The 7mm Mauser has been around for 100 years. It's not going away anytime soon.

The 7-08 is very popular.... not going away, either, and if it did, you can make brass for it out of .308 WIN, .243, or just about any other .308 based case.

While not as common as .270 WIN, the .280 Remington (aka 7mm Remington Express) is not going away either ....

The 7mm Rem Magnum will be around, but I feel it is wastefully inefficient..... same, but only moreso with the bigger cartridges (The Ultramags are just silly) Many people think my favorit deer cartridge is inefficient, too (.270 WIN)....

The Weatherby is a niche cartridge, and spendy to buy....
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Old September 10, 2012, 01:48 PM   #5
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as a non-reloader
You know, with a bit of time, diligence, and a bit of cash, you can remedy that. You'll learn a lot in the process.
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Old September 10, 2012, 02:09 PM   #6
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And you'll eventually "Save" more than you spend. It's been a while since I've done the math, but buying all the components (not the assembly hardware i.e. press, and dies etc) I can load my 300 RUM for about half the cost of buying a box. At that rate you pay for the hardware in under a year of diligent shooting, a few of less frequent range trips. And that half goes up quite a bit when you add in RE-reloading, and RE-RE-reloading your brass.
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Old September 10, 2012, 02:13 PM   #7
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Don't forget the 275 Rigby
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Old September 10, 2012, 02:29 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jimbob86 View Post
You know, with a bit of time, diligence, and a bit of cash, you can remedy that. You'll learn a lot in the process.
I fully intend to here in about a year and a half. As a cash-strapped law student in a studio apartment I'm not sure how I could set up for it.

Very much appreciate your help!
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Old September 10, 2012, 02:43 PM   #9
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Not a problem.

Remember this:

The only stupid questions are those you either knew the answer and asked anyway, or those you needed the answer to and did not ask.

If you don't know, you don't know. Ask someone who does, or persist in your ingnorance. The latter is stupid.
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Old September 10, 2012, 02:51 PM   #10
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When people simply refer to the 7mm, usually they mean the 7mmRem Mag as it is the most popular 7mm. However as demonstrated above it can lead to a lot of confusion due to the number of cartridges that are 7mm.
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Old September 10, 2012, 02:55 PM   #11
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When people simply refer to the 7mm, usually they mean the 7mmRem Mag as it is the most popular 7mm.
Depends upon the location. Europe and Latin America love the 7x57.
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Old September 10, 2012, 02:56 PM   #12
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LockedBreech- I take it you're a bit of a studious type. I would venture a guess that you would gleen a ton of information from a reloading book such as the Lyman 49th Edition. They contain huge amounts of info on the 'whats, how's, why's, and why-nots'. Just about any cartridge you could dream up is covered with diagrams, histories, components, speeds, and pressures. A study of that will give you an idea of where ctg's fall in line with each other. The book(s) may not tell you which one's are popular or near obsolete- but it will give you a much better understanding that we can truthfully impart. Another great and informative bathroom reader is "Cartridges Of The World". Borrow one (or both) or get them on the cheap and you'll soon see why it's so difficult fur us to give you the full answers you deserve.

Kraig- Easy does it, next thing you know, we'll have the poor guy wondering about Page Poopers, Floberts, Velo Dogs, Wildcats, and Lord knows what else!
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Old September 10, 2012, 05:50 PM   #13
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Then there is always the fun 7.92mm Mauser.

Took me forever to realize that is what a lot of history writers refer to as the "8mm Mauser."
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Old September 10, 2012, 08:01 PM   #14
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Ahh, yesss. The 7mm Page Super Pooper. And, don't forget the 276 Pederson.
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Old September 10, 2012, 11:08 PM   #15
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There are many 7mm cartridges. Typically, when someone in the US talks about shooting a 7mm, they mean the 7mm Remington Magnum.

But if in Europe, they could be talking about the 7X64mm Brenneke or the 7mm Vom Hoff or one of many other cartridges loaded with a 7mm bullet. Which technically is a 7.21mm bullet. Oh, no, here we go again!

And that doesn't even take into account the one that fires 7mm diameter bullets that is not a 7mm!
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Old September 11, 2012, 02:57 AM   #16
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The cartridge v. caliber comment is well taken, well said.

These days, here in the US, the 7mm Mag is still very popular, and I'd offer that when somebody blindly mouths "7mm" its 7mm Mag they intend. Heck, some current shooters and hunters are likely not even aware of the older 7x57.

The 7mm-08 has made some inroads in the field, and I have seen guys hunt them and ammo is not overly rare. But I have not seen a 7x57 I don't think ever, afield.

NOt always that way, according to the sages of old, or in Europe or Africa, but here, now, for sure.
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Old September 11, 2012, 04:02 AM   #17
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Generally, in this part of the South, a 7mm Rem. Mag will be referred to as a "7 Mag", a 7x57mm as a "7mm Mauser", a 7mm Ultra Mag by it's common name and 7mm STW as that, or simply as an "STW".

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Old September 11, 2012, 05:31 AM   #18
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In both the Texas and Virginia areas that I lived in the 7mm Remington Magnum was very popular and anyone who mentioned 7mm was assumed to be talking about the Remington Magnum.

The new and used gun racks usually had a pretty good selection of rifles in that caliber as well.

I would imagine the 7x57 could be considered one of the classics as far as 7mm rounds go but to the locals the magnum was the king.
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Old September 11, 2012, 08:43 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by kraigwy
Don't forget the 275 Rigby
Correct me if I"m wrong, but wasn't the .275 Rigby a simple repackaging of the 7X57? A simple name change for the British market?
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Old September 11, 2012, 09:24 AM   #20
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"The 7mm-08 has made some inroads in the field, and I have seen guys hunt them and ammo is not overly rare. But I have not seen a 7x57 I don't think ever, afield."

That's cuz you never hunted with me.
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Old September 11, 2012, 09:29 AM   #21
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"Correct me if I"m wrong, but wasn't the .275 Rigby a simple repackaging of the 7X57? A simple name change for the British market? "

That's only partly correct. If I undestand it correctly the British would never use a cartrdige designed by Germans. So they just changed the name to the .275 Rigby and called it good. I believe the .276 Westley-Richards may also be just a renamed 7x57 You'll note that rifles note made in England have to be reproofed and then stamped "Not British made" or make. Just a bit of British snobbery, don't you know.
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Old September 11, 2012, 10:31 AM   #22
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The only way to determine the cartridge being referenced is "Which 7mm, specifically?"

ASSuming anything in a world of 60,000+ psi can be... unfortunate.
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Old September 11, 2012, 03:00 PM   #23
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Correct me if I"m wrong, but wasn't the .275 Rigby a simple repackaging of the 7X57? A simple name change for the British market?
Well, the answer is long-winded and a little off topic, but a good question nonetheless. Rigby was the exclusive importer (into the British Commonwealth) of Mauser rifles, most importantly for the Brits the square-bridge Mauser Magnum action used in large-bore rifles typically used for dangerous game. Since Napoleon had mandated the metric system (SI) for the European countries that came under his control and the British were using the Standard System, cartridges with metric designations were renamed with Standard System dimensions. So the .275 Rigby was a .275" bore rifle firing the Rigby cartridge (since Rigby was the only source for the ammo in England at that time), and later 7mm Rigby cartridges got a number (#2, #3, etc). Rigby had a whole line of proprietary cartridges. Many European metric designated cartridges were from other parts of the world, but the continentals renamed them with their very logical naming system (bore diameter X cartridge case length, and sometimes a designation for designer, rimmed, belted, etc). So yes, .275 Rigby was in fact the 7X57mm.
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Old September 11, 2012, 08:51 PM   #24
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My experience has been that most people that say they have a 7mm actually mean 7x57mm (AKA 7mm Mauser), if they're referring to the 7mm Rem Mag they usually say 7mm Mag. I would second asking "which 7mm" when the subject comes up.

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Old September 11, 2012, 10:46 PM   #25
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.275 (Rigby) is actuallly...

the Standard System measurement of the diameter of the lands. The diameter of the grooves is .284, which is much more recognizable as 7 mm.

Speaking of .284, no one has yet mentioned the .284 Winchester, one of the earlier 7 mm short/fat rounds. It was notably necked down to 6.5 mm (.264 inch) and became the 6.5-.284, a very accurate long range competition round.

I'm just saying.
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