The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 20, 2012, 07:12 PM   #1
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
Cougar 8040 Problems.

I posted this to the Stoeger forum, and got zero replies. Maybe you guys can give some good advice.

I bought an 8040 last month, and while I was at the range with it last week I noticed a potential problem. Right above where the serial, and caliber is stamped on the barrel is a "tab". The tab on mine is beat up pretty bad along the whole length, and the front corners on the tab are rounded off. It looks like it has been beaten with a claw hammer, and most of the finish is gone. I have shot probably 300 rounds of 165grn FMJ Blazer Brass ammo through it exclusively, no reloads. Since it shoots like a friggin laser, and I have had no malfunctions at all, I cringed when I showed it to the staff gunsmith at the range.

I have heard two different stories on this gun. The first is from the gunsmith. He says that the gun is potentially unsafe. That the tab fits into a slot in the slide, and is rubbing where it shouldnt be,and also is getting the hell beaten out of it. He says that the tab could fail. He says that the tolerances are off from the factory, and that he is going to send it back.

I have done my research, and from photos of the Cougars I have found other guns do the same thing, though admittedly not as bad as mine. So what's the word guys? Take a look at your Cougars and tell me what you see in that area. Could it be that they are all having problems with that tab?

I got a message from Stoeger customer service yesterday, and will keep you guys posted. I miss my 40.

Just an update: Still havent heard anything from anyone about if the pistol will ship back, when, how, or nothing. I have heard zero from Stoeger customer service since they sent me that message. I guess it's too late to get a refund.
superfleet is offline  
Old September 20, 2012, 07:24 PM   #2
ohen cepel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 1999
Location: Where they send me
Posts: 1,013
May want to look on the Beretta forum. Lots of guys there have them since it started as a Beretta pistol.
__________________
He who dares wins.

NRA Life Benefactor Member
ohen cepel is offline  
Old September 20, 2012, 07:29 PM   #3
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
Thanks, but I have been asking myself the question "can I trust it with my life", I dunno if I can do that now. I will probably swap it in on something else, maybe a Shield.
superfleet is offline  
Old September 20, 2012, 08:06 PM   #4
ohen cepel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 1999
Location: Where they send me
Posts: 1,013
I would wait and see what they say. If they fix it an it rolls through the next 500rds (or whatever you prefer) without a hitch I wouldn't worry about it.

Everyone makes things with issues from time to time. Every machine will fail.
__________________
He who dares wins.

NRA Life Benefactor Member
ohen cepel is offline  
Old September 20, 2012, 09:41 PM   #5
dyl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 509
Same opinion here, if it comes back fixed or new I'd test it out again. There was something about the gun that drew you to it in the first place and you're already getting used to it. I've felt the Stoeger Cougar in 9mm and loved the ergonomics and that rotating action was interesting. I've had to replace a broken firing pin spring one of my carry guns and I still trust it. That was on a Smith and Wesson revolver.

The gun still shot but I happened to notice it.

I have a friend who says he trusts refurbished items sometimes more than new because the weakest link has been identified and replaced.

Enjoy the gun and have fun testing it!
dyl is offline  
Old September 21, 2012, 04:33 PM   #6
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
You guys are right. My wife says the same thing. The thing that really binds my cheese is the crappy customer service. I have a S&W 637, I had the thing to S&W, fixed, and back to me in under two weeks. The gunsmith told me that it would be at least a month, could be up to three, to get that Cougar back. The question I have is why Stoeger cant do the right thing by a guy, and just tell the dealer's gunsmith to give me a new one, and send the old one back? Or, barring that, why not pull the top end from a stock pistol they have, and send the flawed slide/barrel back? That would suit me just fine, and I would'nt have any complaints. Oh well. Oh and you guys are right about my really liking this pistol. I have been doing dry drills with it since I got it, and actually shooting it at every chance. I have a concealed carry class next week, and now I have to switch guns. The dont have any Cougars in the rental case. I shot with my Taurus this past weekend, and I think I will be ok.

Last edited by superfleet; September 21, 2012 at 04:40 PM.
superfleet is offline  
Old September 21, 2012, 10:22 PM   #7
wpsdlrg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2009
Posts: 461
I have the 8000L (9mm Compact) Stoeger Cougar. A truly excellent gun it is. The locking rib on mine does show some slight wear on the front end, but that is normal. However, it is not "beaten up" as you describe yours to be. So, it does sound as if you have a problem.

I can't vouch for Stoeger's CS - I've not had any occasion to use it. However, give them a chance - I'm hopeful that they'll make it right.

I am not surprised that they wanted the whole gun back for repair on this. That makes sense - the gun is a machine that works as a package. If only the slide and barrel were to be returned for service, the replacements might not fit quite perfectly on your frame. Then, you'd have a problem all over again. Further, the problem COULD lie with the "locking block", which controls the rotation of the barrel. This piece must fit well for the system to work as designed. If the timing is off, due to an out of tolerance block, then that could lead to the barrel lug getting beaten up by the slide. Just a possibility, mind you. But, as I said, it makes sense to have the whole gun back in the shop, to give it a complete going over.
wpsdlrg is offline  
Old September 22, 2012, 08:34 AM   #8
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
Thanks for the info! I saw allot of pics with just a little of the finish gone on the tab like you describe on yours. Mine actually started like that, but got progressively worse. Now it's a waiting game I guess. Thanks for the replies guys.
superfleet is offline  
Old September 25, 2012, 04:04 PM   #9
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
Update: Spoke to Stoeger CS today, they received the pistol on the 21st, and said they will have it turned around one way or another in 10 days. Add a couple more for shipping, and I should have my 40 back on about the 10th of October or so. I asked Stoeger what they thought happened to it, and they said that the gunsmith would call me! Hell ya!

Too late to use it for my class, but if it's 100% fixed I dont care. Either way I have to take back what I said about their customer service.

I hate eatin' crow....
superfleet is offline  
Old September 25, 2012, 04:19 PM   #10
pgdion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2010
Location: MPLS, MN
Posts: 1,107
Good news on the response. I have the 8000 and it has been flawless. It is both my nightstand gun and my carry gun. Love the way it fits my hand and it's fun shooting it ... right on the mark too as you mentioned.

I'll look at mine when I get home but I know there's little to no wear on the tab. .looking forward to what you find out.
__________________
597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!
pgdion is offline  
Old September 25, 2012, 04:58 PM   #11
wpsdlrg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2009
Posts: 461
Good to hear your news. I hope it works out well.

Just to clarify, slight wear on the front end of the tab, where it contacts the slide recess, is completely normal. After all, the tab in question serves as a locking lug - and friction occurs between the tab and the slide, as the barrel rotates to lock and unlock. It is basically the same principle as with the locking lugs on the bolt of a bolt-action rifle. Friction = wear....however, the wear should be relatively slight.
wpsdlrg is offline  
Old September 25, 2012, 07:26 PM   #12
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
If I understand the gunsmith correctly, the problem is not with the slide itself, but another slot on the bottom that is not rotating the barrel far enough, allowing the tab on top to slam into the slot in the slide. I wish I had a cougar here so that I could work the slide and see what he is talking about. I remember seeing a recessed slot in the frame though, I cleaned and lubed it with Break Free.

Correction, I remember seeing the slot in the bottom of the barrel. The tab for that is on the recoil spring assy yes?
superfleet is offline  
Old September 25, 2012, 09:52 PM   #13
wpsdlrg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2009
Posts: 461
I THOUGHT that that might be the problem.

The helical slot is on the bottom of the barrel. The corresponding lug is on the locking block, which is assembled with the recoil spring assembly passing through it. The way the gun works is that, as the cartridge is fired, the slide and barrel (locked together) recoil together, for a short distance (roughly 1/8" - 1/4"). At that point, the helical track in the barrel and the lug on the locking block act together to cause the barrel to rotate 30 degrees, thus unlocking the barrel from the slide. Then, the slide continues to the rear, while the barrel stays put.

On your particular pistol, there is apparently a machining error on either the track in the barrel, or the locking block. Thus, the barrel is not fully rotated (30 degrees) as it should....but it is rotated enough to unlock from the slide (otherwise the gun would not function). There is a slot in the slide, through which the tab (locking lug) on the barrel rides as the slide recoils. Since the barrel is not rotating as much as it should, the locking tab on the barrel is being struck by the slide as it recoils, thus "beating up" the locking tab. However, the force of the impact is evidently then causing the barrel to rotate the rest of the way, so that it then slips into the groove in the slide. So then the slide continues it's movement to the rear.

In any case, I would assume that Stoeger will replace the barrel, the locking block....and perhaps the slide.

This problem is interesting and it is indicative of the issues possible with the design of the Cougar. The Cougar is a relatively expensive and complicated pistol to manufacture, due to the precise machining necessary to get it to work properly. As you can see, if the machining is not spot-on, then problems will occur.

If the parts ARE correct, however, then the gun functions beautifully. At least, MINE does.....and has never malfunctioned in any way.

I'm glad that Stoeger has gotten to the bottom of the problem. As I said, I thought that the problem might lie with barrel timing. I'm sure that they will make it right for you.
wpsdlrg is offline  
Old September 26, 2012, 04:35 PM   #14
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
Quote:
I'm glad that Stoeger has gotten to the bottom of the problem.
Me too, my greatest fear was that they would call and tell me that it looked fine. Or that they didnt know. All I know for sure is I bought the pistol, took it directly out to the range, and tore the center out of the target at 7 yards. I noticed that the gun was recoiling bad, much worse that I have ever seen a 40 do, but having never owned a Cougar I didnt know that was wrong. Obviously that slamming was increasing the shock to my wrist, it couldnt have been helping. I cant wait to shoot it when it is 100%!

I have a question that occurred to me though. If they replace the slide, and the barrel the serial numbers wont match?
superfleet is offline  
Old September 26, 2012, 05:52 PM   #15
wpsdlrg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2009
Posts: 461
Gun manufacturers are allowed to match serial numbers for repair purposes. So, if they replace the slide, they'll probably simply roll stamp the new slide with your existing serial number. The same for the barrel. They have to account for the serial numbered parts....so the bad parts will be destroyed....and their repair records will indicate this.
wpsdlrg is offline  
Old September 26, 2012, 06:33 PM   #16
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
Thanks man!
superfleet is offline  
Old September 27, 2012, 01:13 PM   #17
pgdion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2010
Location: MPLS, MN
Posts: 1,107
Quote:
I noticed that the gun was recoiling bad, much worse that I have ever seen a 40 do, but having never owned a Cougar ...
Yea, that doesn't sound right at all. The Cougar is supposed to shoot the 40 pretty nice, I've heard the rotating barrel really shines with that cartridge. Haven't had a chance to try it first hand though as my Cougar is in the 9mm (the .40sw Cougar is on my short list with 2 other guns, not sure which I'll get first ).

btw - looked at mine last night and just a little spot on my tab where the finish had rubbed off, no visible wear to the steel. Good thing you sent yours in and I'm glad they are taking care of it. That's good to hear as I really like these guns and want to get another one.
__________________
597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!
pgdion is offline  
Old September 27, 2012, 04:28 PM   #18
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
Quote:
Haven't had a chance to try it first hand though as my Cougar is in the 9mm
I have the cash in hand to buy the 9mm, and will do so in a heartbeat when this is fixed. Even with it slamming like it was, I was shooting very well with the Cougar. When I moved the target out to 15 yards, and was cutting the center to pieces (I actually had bits of paper flying) the guys from the other lanes came over to see what I was shooting. I said out loud "damn I love this pistol", and one of the other guys said "I don't blame you." That pretty much sums it up really. The only thing I can add is that out of the 300 rounds of Blazer Brass that I shot through it, not a single FTF or FTE, and the cases were in good shape to be stuffed again.
superfleet is offline  
Old September 27, 2012, 04:55 PM   #19
wpsdlrg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2009
Posts: 461
As a matter of fact, the Cougar was DESIGNED around the 40 S&W cartridge. The 9mm and 45 offerings came later.

I like my 9mm Cougar as much as you (like yours). It is truly a superb handgun. I've never had a single malfunction....and the darn thing is as accurate as anyone could ever want it to be. The Cougar is my favorite - and is definitely the best handgun purchase I've made yet, even in comparison with my Sig Sauer and my S&W revolver (two guns which I also like about as much as I possibly can).
wpsdlrg is offline  
Old September 27, 2012, 06:37 PM   #20
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
I had a S&W 637 up until a couple weeks ago. I swapped it for a Taurus PT58HC Plus that I love. Yes it's a .380, but it's a .380 with 19 rounds Anyway, I cant wait to hold my Cougar again. I mean the gun.
superfleet is offline  
Old September 28, 2012, 03:57 PM   #21
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
Update:

Just got a call from my local gunsmith, he said that he has the pistol in hand. I am going to the range tomorrow anyway for the CC class, so I will pick it up then.

The real surprise is that it wasnt fixed. I was afraid of that. I was surprised that it was back so fast, so I called Stoeger customer service to find out the skinny. Stoeger told me that there wasnt anything wrong with the gun, and that that type of wear was normal for a Cougar. This is a BIG change obviously from what I was told earlier in the week. They told me that they test fired it, and it functioned well. Hell, I told them that on the phone. I explained to Stoeger that I have looked at several dozen photos of Cougars online, both the 8000, and the 8040, and though there was wear on the barrel lug, it was nothing like mine. The normal wear pattern of the lug on the cougars that I have seen was about the width of a pencil lead, more or less. NOT THE WHOLE LENGTH. I mentioned the fact that the front edges of the barrel lug are beaten up also, and they told me that they FILED THOSE DOWN! Are you friggin kidding me? I could have done that myself, but didnt because I thought it would only make the problem worse. Those parts fit together with tight tolerances, why would you file a part down? Just to add to the insult, I was informed by my gunsmith I have a 35.00 charge to pay before I can pick it up. Sad to say it guys, but this pistol is so friggin gone tomorrow it aint funny. Nothings wrong with it? Then they shouldnt have any problem giving me a good trade in allowance. For a few bucks !LESS! I could have had an M&P.

If by some trick of fate I should bring it home tomorrow I will post pics.
superfleet is offline  
Old September 28, 2012, 04:13 PM   #22
pgdion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2010
Location: MPLS, MN
Posts: 1,107
Wow, super bummer! Wonder if they know the negative press this has caused them. Maybe I'll email them and let them know what this just cost them in sales. Not sure IS want to take a chance on a 40 now.
__________________
597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!
pgdion is offline  
Old September 29, 2012, 06:35 PM   #23
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
I had my class today (passed easily with my Taurus), and while we were on a lunch break I went inside and picked up my Cougar. Needless to say I am mad as hell. They did a really crappy job of stoning the lug. I thought they had just "took off the burrs" from the lug. Instead they stoned it down, sloppily I might add, and completely rounded off the front of it. They left scratches on the barrel from where they stoned it, and hit the bluing with a friggin bluing pen. The worst part is, I was right. The tolerances are completely off now, and even the bottom of the barrel is taking a beating now. I HAD to bring this gun home, and take photos of it, and also the stupid letter those morons at Stoeger sent in the box with my gun.


As you can see there is allot of wear on the bottom of the barrel, just reminding you guys, this gun is a month old.



A look at what they did to the lug, if you have a cougar, yours is square.



In this pic you can see through the blue pen blue job they did, and see that the damage was to the whole length of the barrel lug.


Another look of the damage they did, every time I look at this pic it gets me steamin.


And of course, a copy of the letter.
superfleet is offline  
Old September 29, 2012, 07:00 PM   #24
superfleet
Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2012
Location: York, S.C.
Posts: 25
Posted this to ripoffreport.com
superfleet is offline  
Old September 29, 2012, 08:24 PM   #25
itchy1
Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2005
Location: SOKY
Posts: 60
Wow, real sorry to hear about this saga regarding the defective cougar. Every manufacturer is capable of turning out a lemon. It's how they support the customer who gets one that matters. Stoeger totally dropped the ball on this one.
__________________
I want at least one of everything
itchy1 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13279 seconds with 10 queries