The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 2, 2012, 08:25 AM   #26
warbirdlover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2009
Location: central Wisconsin
Posts: 2,324
Nice buy and nice groups!

I don't shoot five hole groups. I fire a fouling shot or two and then shoot three of the best shots I can make. I find it isn't the rifle that causes groups to open up shooting five shots. It's the nut on the handle unable to hold tight for all five. If you can't it's not the rifle it's the shooter that causes the groups to open up shooting five.
warbirdlover is offline  
Old October 2, 2012, 10:22 AM   #27
geetarman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,745
Quote:
It's the nut on the handle unable to hold tight for all five. If you can't it's not the rifle it's the shooter that causes the groups to open up shooting five.
I do not think that is true at all. You could put the rifle in a vise and try to shoot five shot groups and you would still see variation.

The thing that really is at the root of groups opening up is variation.

The more shots you shoot, the more time the variables involved have a chance to exert their influence on group size.

The whole idea of process control is variable reduction. Shooting is a process and the more variables you can isolate and minimize those effects on the process, the better your groups will get.

Your bullets, primers, brass, powder and your technique all have variability and each one has a unique influence on your ability to put 5 shots into one hole.

The best BR shooters have done their best to reduce those influences, but they are still there.
__________________
Geetarman

Carpe Cerveza
geetarman is offline  
Old October 3, 2012, 07:26 PM   #28
zeke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 1999
Location: NW Wi
Posts: 370
Another very satisfied 308 Vanguard owner. Youth stock and 1.5x 4 Nikon scope = easily less than 1 moa. And it is tested with 3 shot groups
zeke is offline  
Old October 3, 2012, 10:49 PM   #29
math teacher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 5, 2012
Location: Southwest WA Coast
Posts: 316
Joe you may not like to put a gun away dirty, but I strongly suggest that you not go hunting with a clean barrel, or least one with any oil in it, as it may shoot off by several inches at 100 yards. I have observed this numerous times and always fire a fouler shot before judging where my rifle is shooting.

Sometimes you get lucky. I am leaving for a moose hunt in Canada tomorrow and I am taking two rifles with me. I fired one shot from each of them and to my amazement they each shot to the exact spot they were supposed to even though they may have had some oil in the barrel. Does this disprove my statement in the previous paragraph. Not on you life!
math teacher is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 10:09 AM   #30
warbirdlover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2009
Location: central Wisconsin
Posts: 2,324
I'm betting Joe knows this already. He's been around in here a LONG time...
warbirdlover is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 01:03 PM   #31
Joe Chicago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2011
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 277
Math, I know to go hunting with a fouled barrel. I also know to zero my scope on shots fired from a cold barrel using the same loads that I shall have in the field.
Joe Chicago is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 02:46 PM   #32
223 shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2008
Posts: 391
Quote:
Bench rest (and other competitions), competition established the standard of measurement at five shots (and in some cases, ten shot),.
Joe's Vanguard is obviously not a benchrest rifle and he did not mention entering benchrest competition. The guy should be able to post a group he is proud of without having to explain why he did not fire more shots.

Maybe I should send my Vanguard Deluxe back to Weatherby and ask that they shoot a five shot group on the test target this time.
223 shooter is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 07:40 PM   #33
geetarman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,745
Quote:
Joe's Vanguard is obviously not a benchrest rifle and he did not mention entering benchrest competition. The guy should be able to post a group he is proud of without having to explain why he did not fire more shots.
Exactly right.
__________________
Geetarman

Carpe Cerveza
geetarman is offline  
Old October 5, 2012, 09:29 AM   #34
Joe Chicago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2011
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 277
I hope to close this thread after deer season with a pic of my Weatherby next to a nice buck shot with one round without the benefit of a benchrest.
Joe Chicago is offline  
Old October 5, 2012, 12:03 PM   #35
WWWJD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2011
Location: Central KY
Posts: 511
A true test...

5 shots at 200 yards vs. 15 shots at 200 yards...





Was an eye opener to me for all the reasons already mentioned; that 5 shots all touching only happens once in a blue moon..
__________________
~Mark

NRA fo Life Member
WWWJD is offline  
Old October 5, 2012, 12:41 PM   #36
Joe Chicago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2011
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 277
WWW, nice groups!
Joe Chicago is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08657 seconds with 8 queries