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Old October 1, 2012, 11:05 AM   #1
praetorian97
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Explosion

This happened recently and I am curious.....

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Idaho-lawma...172007341.html

Is it dangerous to have my reloading powder on the same bench as my gun cleaning solutions?
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Old October 1, 2012, 11:44 AM   #2
serf 'rett
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Mixing various chemicals is not a good idea...

...but I suspect there is more to this story than a pound or two of powder and 8 oz. of Hoppes No. 9 on a loading bench.
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Old October 1, 2012, 11:56 AM   #3
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That is kind of what I am thinking. I was asking myself....Am I missing something here?
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Old October 1, 2012, 12:07 PM   #4
SL1
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There is not enough information in this story to tell if the reloading supplies or cleaning materials were even involved. Hopefully, a fire marshall will do some realistic investigation. Frankly, this sounds more like a propane explosion than a smokeless powder fire, but maybe he had a lot of black power in that room?

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Old October 1, 2012, 12:10 PM   #5
praetorian97
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I have very little faith in the Media's investigating skills.

The last comment is what through a wrench in the mix....

"Behr tells us that the explosion does not appear to be suspicious, and advises people to keep their cleaning supplies away from their guns and ammunition."
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Old October 1, 2012, 12:28 PM   #6
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I guess it's which axe they want to grind on! Seems the media go's after what is the most sensualization at the moment.
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Old October 1, 2012, 12:50 PM   #7
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One needs to be more careful with their combustibles!!!
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Old October 1, 2012, 03:02 PM   #8
m&p45acp10+1
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What is the weather in that area like?

Is there are furnace in the basement as well?

Natural Gas? Heating oil? Boiler? Propane tank not properly stored maybe?

The limited info I see makes me think that either chemicals too close the heat, or a gas explosion. It would take more than a few jugs of powder, and cleaning solvent to cause that big of an explosion.
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Old October 1, 2012, 04:28 PM   #9
Gerry
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Smokeless powder can easily do that if you keep several pounds packed in a sealed metal container and accidentally leave that container on a hot stove...

It's advisable never to do that.
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Old October 1, 2012, 05:00 PM   #10
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Smoker being careless??

I bet you could pour Hoppes on smokeless and nothing happen except ruin the powder. No, I wont volunteer.
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Old October 2, 2012, 10:33 AM   #11
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Update

http://www.ktvb.com/news/Fire-offici...172216881.html
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Old October 2, 2012, 03:52 PM   #12
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Your classic "oily rag bin" fire, that just happened to be in a gun room.
Unfortunate.
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Old October 3, 2012, 08:07 AM   #13
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It woud have been helpful if he had said WHAT SOLVENTS he ws using. For example, was he using Ed's Red, with it s acetone component. Was he using white gas (camp stove fuel)? And, it seems a little strange that he would use enough to cause a rag-bin fire. Was he cleaning an artillary piece, or what?

It also seems strange that he was standing outside a door and was not injured, while his wife was outside and was injured. How did the explosion move a concrete slab and not blow the door out on him? Also, how did the explosion push flames through the dirt/concrete sufficiently to set his wife's har on fire without buring down the house?

To me, this still sounds like a gas explosion. It might have been gas from evaporated solvents, rather than something like a propane leak. But, it seems like the gas made it out of the room before it exploded, so that not all the force was created inside the room. Perhaps fumes moved into other areas until they found an ignition source, then ignited and created pressure and flames in multiple places. Still would seem to have required a LOT more solvent than I would expect to have been used to clean a gun. Maybe he had a spill and cleaned it up with rags, leaving them in the room?

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Old October 4, 2012, 09:57 AM   #14
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I don't think the Fire Chief is aware , or maybe he is and ruled that out, but old gunpowder will spontaneously ignite. If the house owner had kegs of old estate sale gunpowder, or kegs of military surplus pull down, and it was fuming in the keg, then kaboom!

ROLE OF DIPHENYLAMINE AS A STABILIZER IN PROPELLANTS;
ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY OF DIPHENYLAMINE IN PROPELLANTS
Quote:
Nitrocellulose-base propellants are essentially unstable materials
that decompose on aging with the evolution of oxides of nitrogen. The
decomposition is autocatalytic and can lead to failure of the ammunition or disastrous explosions.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/783499.pdf

Section from Propellant Management Guide:

Stabilizers are chemical ingredients added to propellant at time of manufacture to
decrease the rate of propellant degradation and reduce the probability of auto ignition during its expected useful life.

As nitrocellulose-based propellants decompose, they release nitrogen oxides. If the nitrogen oxides are left free to react in the propellant, they can react with the nitrate ester, causing further decomposition and additional release of nitrogen oxides. The reaction between the nitrate ester and the nitrogen oxides is exothermic (i.e., the reaction produces heat). Heat increases the rate of propellant decomposition. More importantly, the exothermic nature of the reaction creates a problem if sufficient heat is generated to initiate combustion. Chemical additives, referred to as stabilizers, are added to propellant formulations to react with free nitrogen oxides to prevent their attack on the nitrate esters in the propellant. The stabilizers are scavengers that act rather like sponges, and once they become “saturated” they are no longer able to remove nitrogen oxides from the propellant. Self-heating of the propellant can occur unabated at the “saturation” point without the ameliorating effect of the stabilizer. Once begun, the self-heating may become sufficient to cause auto ignition.
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Old October 4, 2012, 10:52 AM   #15
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Boiled Linseed Oil

Rubbed down his wood?
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